ROC Declares War Against ISIS A 'Holy Battle'

[ALoveDivine]

Plus, Russia could have joined the coalition already in place fighting ISIS, but no

The US-led coalition is still bent on destroying the Syrian state. This will without any doubt at all lead to the victory of either Al-Nusra or ISIS. There really is no moderate opposition to speak of. ALL rebel groups in Syria are Islamist. Until the coalition decides to support and reinforce the Syrian state, as Russia is doing, their efforts will be futile and entirely counter-productive.

As bad as Assad is, it is best to retain the state structures in Syria rather than to destroy them and open up power for grabs by fanatical Islamists. From the very first days of this conflict I understood that opposing Assad was completely idiotic.

 

[buzuxi02]

Exactly. The common syrian people do not wantthese "moderates" except for the extreme Sunnis. Besides the emptying of the refugee camps in Turkey sending them to Europe. This refugee spike is precisely because these migrants were anticipating Assad's collapse and wanted to get the hell out before America's "moderates" took over. They saw the coming chaos and uncertainty. The coalition is a sham. Yesterday France bombed an abandoned rubber tire obstacle course and the media hailed them for destroying an ISIS camp!!! We are and always have been on the side of ISIS and the reporting of the last 48 hours confirms it.

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

I don't understand you lot. Considering, Anglo-American imperialism is the whole reason the region is in such a state in the first place. America most especially! Look at the last decade, killed Saddaam? Al-Qaeda, take out Mubarak? Muslim Brotherhood, assassinate Qaddafi? Al-Qaeda, and now aside? ISIS, bar far the worst front group of them all, directly responsible for the death of thousands of Chrisians and everyone here is poo pooing this? Why?!

There's enough evidence to claim thy America created, trained and fund(ed) ISIS/ISIL and what could be better? You can adventure and plunder the region as you please with clean hands. Putin is objectively taking the correct stand here. Russia has safe guarded our faith/church for centuries. Do none of you hold anything sacred here? With the mocking of HAH, this and other such examples? Is this the Orthodox subforum?

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

No wars can be considered holy? WWII against the Nazis? The Crusades to halt Arab-Islamic imperialism? The Civil War in America which abolished the horrors of slavery? The revolutionary war which freed us from the yoke of England? There's numerous struggles I can think of.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I don't understand you lot. Considering, Anglo-American imperialism is the whole reason the region is in such a state in the first place. America most especially! Look at the last decade, killed Saddaam? Al-Qaeda, take out Mubarak? Muslim Brotherhood, assassinate Qaddafi? Al-Qaeda, and now aside? ISIS, bar far the worst front group of them all, directly responsible for the death of thousands of Chrisians and everyone here is poo pooing this? Why?!

There's enough evidence to claim thy America created, trained and fund(ed) ISIS/ISIL and what could be better? You can adventure and plunder the region as you please with clean hands. Putin is objectively taking the correct stand here. Russia has safe guarded our faith/church for centuries. Do none of you hold anything sacred here? With the mocking of HAH, this and other such examples? Is this the Orthodox subforum?

As for me, I ask your forgiveness if I have offended.

I never know who to believe, not really. Not among the media. I suspect the US administration has very dirty hands. I suspect Russia's moves are correct, though I can't begin to assess her motives. I leave that to God.

I only know that war is terrible. That Christians have been dying in horrific ways, and that not many seem to care. That no comfort comes to the survivors in the aftermath.

Such things simply grieve me. I am saddened to see how terribly humans are capable of treating one another. The faith of martyrs IS inspiring, but sometimes I long for the time when no one will need any longer to prove their faith by suffering and death, and no one will wish to inflict that on any person.

Please forgive me if my comments, or lack of them, have offended you.

 

[buzuxi02]

Herman,
I dont think everyone is disputing what your saying. I agree with you.

Granted these western powers have to cover their tracks for the quagmire they have created and the ignorant masses refuse to believe the obvious.
Did you know that most Europeans have never been told that the african migrant surge to Europe was caused by ousting Kaddaffi. The migrants themselves are lied into thinking the Mediterenean is like crossing a creek. They pay a few bucks to be guided into Libya, then pay a few more bucks to grab a raft from the Libyan coast to cross what they think is a 20 minute row to the shores of Europe. Under Kadaffi, Libya acted as a buffer and human smuggling was completely nonexistant.

And now the europeans arent being told why this spike in the past few months of eastern refugees when this war has been going on for over 4 years.

 

[truefiction1]

No wars can be considered holy? WWII against the Nazis? The Crusades to halt Arab-Islamic imperialism? The Civil War in America which abolished the horrors of slavery? The revolutionary war which freed us from the yoke of England? There's numerous struggles I can think of.

All wars are a blood sacrifice in order to open a way for an earthly heavenly kingdom. It was that for Nazi Germany, which made it a sacred cause (for them) worth fighting and dying for, which is why even their own Christian clerics blessed them to enter into battle against Allied forces, composed also of soldiers who were Christian. Thus, it is said that all wars are holy.
It is a lie we use to engage others in war -- a myth -- that's all it is. What's real is dead, stinking, rotting corpses in fields and ditches . That's what war really is.
We don't fight because it's holy. We fight because it's the lesser of two evils, as the Church teaches.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What's real is dead, stinking, rotting corpses in fields and ditches . That's what war really is.
We don't fight because it's holy. We fight because it's the lesser of two evils, as the Church teaches.

yup.

"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." -Eph 6:12

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

All wars are a blood sacrifice in order to open a way for an earthly heavenly kingdom. It was that for Nazi Germany, which made it a sacred cause (for them) worth fighting and dying for, which is why even their own Christian clerics blessed them to enter into battle against Allied forces, composed also of soldiers who were Christian. Thus, it is said that all wars are holy.
It is a lie we use to engage others in war -- a myth -- that's all it is. What's real is dead, stinking, rotting corpses in fields and ditches . That's what war really is.
We don't fight because it's holy. We fight because it's the lesser of two evils, as the Church teaches.

To create a better future, to progress as a species, to defend the faith, and protect the innocent sometimes violence is necessary in the same way cracking an egg is necessary to create an omelette. Child birth is also a violent process. Think about that, what of mothers who die in childbirth and the child being born? There's a stinking rotting, body an from it! New life.

Our faith was forged in blood and suffering and from that billions of souls throughout millennia have been saved. I don't see how pulling out weeds out of the Lord's garden so that all the other flora can grow and thrive can be described as anything but holy and compassionate. Most especially taking into consideration the warrior doing this great work and the psychological cost of killing. What's so different from that and physical martyrdom?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

To whom is this post addressed?

I don't understand you lot. Considering, Anglo-American imperialism is the whole reason the region is in such a state in the first place. America most especially! Look at the last decade, killed Saddaam? Al-Qaeda, take out Mubarak? Muslim Brotherhood, assassinate Qaddafi? Al-Qaeda, and now aside? ISIS, bar far the worst front group of them all, directly responsible for the death of thousands of Chrisians and everyone here is poo pooing this? Why?!

There's enough evidence to claim thy America created, trained and fund(ed) ISIS/ISIL and what could be better? You can adventure and plunder the region as you please with clean hands. Putin is objectively taking the correct stand here. Russia has safe guarded our faith/church for centuries. Do none of you hold anything sacred here? With the mocking of HAH, this and other such examples? Is this the Orthodox subforum?

 

[GregConstantine]

"no one said they were. try reading before commenting."

It was read, you need to read Herman's question again.

It is naive to assume that nation states have altruistic motives. One must ask, Why did Russia wait 4 years before taking action?

Please don't assume that because I'm questioning Russia's actions (as we should) I'm automatically endorsing the West's actions, especially the United States. I'm appalled by the complete lack of leadership from Obama. I saw him today whining on TV about the shooting in Oregon. But that's another subject.

I am not going to rush to Russia's defense just because she's majority Orthodox.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

He loves to whine about shootings and use a tragic situation to jump on his "let's disarm American gun owners!" soapbox. If the moron stopped to think that, if just 20% of those kids could be carrying a pistol on campus, that shooter would've been D-E-A-D!

"no one said they were. try reading before commenting."

It was read, you need to read Herman's question again.

It is naive to assume that nation states have altruistic motives. One must ask, Why did Russia wait 4 years before taking action?

Please don't assume that because I'm questioning Russia's actions (as we should) I'm automatically endorsing the West's actions, especially the United States. I'm appalled by the complete lack of leadership from Obama. I saw him today whining on TV about the shooting in Oregon. But that's another subject.

I am not going to rush to Russia's defense just because she's majority Orthodox.

 

[Cappadocious]

translation?

Live action role playing.

 

[jckstraw72]

"no one said they were. try reading before commenting."

It was read, you need to read Herman's question again.

actually, he wrote: "I actually think it's both politics and about saving our Christian brothers in Syria; how do you not?" (emphasis added for the benefit of the reading impaired)

and you start talking about purely altruistic motives, despite the fact that he clearly was making no such claim. your reign of terror is slipping through your fingers.

 

[truefiction1]

To create a better future, to progress as a species, to defend the faith, and protect the innocent sometimes violence is necessary in the same way cracking an egg is necessary to create an omelette. Child birth is also a violent process. Think about that, what of mothers who die in childbirth and the child being born? There's a stinking rotting, body an from it! New life.

Our faith was forged in blood and suffering and from that billions of souls throughout millennia have been saved. I don't see how pulling out weeds out of the Lord's garden so that all the other flora can grow and thrive can be described as anything but holy and compassionate. Most especially taking into consideration the warrior doing this great work and the psychological cost of killing. What's so different from that and physical martyrdom?

Christ died once, for all. His blood is enough for us to open the gates of paradise. The blood of billions wont bring about anything lasting enough to make it worth the cost that we all pay. War is evil, always. It's never holy, unless its unseen and fought in the battlefield of one's own heart. The Holy Church allows us to enter into combat when it's the lesser of two evils. But it's evil, and it would be a lie to call it holy under any circumstances. Necessary, perhaps, given the circumstances, but never holy.

 

[jckstraw72]

for what it's worth, i don't think "holy war" is the best translation of what Fr. Chaplin said, but maybe Rus could weigh in better on that

 

[dzheremi]

From what I can recall, the Syriac Orthodox Church and its bishops in Syria have opposed Western military intervention/invasion. I wonder if Russia counts?

As they did back in the day when they were still friends with the Chinese, Russia still produces the best (funniest) propaganda:

This is what America is missing from its strategy in Syria: manliness and flowers.

 

[jckstraw72]

haha manliness and flowers don't have to be two separate things!

 

[GregConstantine]

"He loves to whine about shootings and use a tragic situation to jump on his "let's disarm American gun owners!" soapbox. If the moron stopped to think that, if just 20% of those kids could be carrying a pistol on campus, that shooter would've been D-E-A-D!"

Indeed. He shouldn't whine, he needs to be a leader and make decisive choices and decisions on behalf of all of us, including his sorry excuse for a foreign policy.

I do believe that this whole mass shooting thing goes beyond gun control (its a part of it). There is something fundamentally wrong with our society when you have people who think it is perfectly fine for them to pick up a gun and mow people down with it.

This is something Obama seems to be ignoring or denying. There's plenty of gun control laws on the books already. Of course, Obama thinks that's the only solution to this problem.

The other part of this is how we as a society handle mental illnesses. Some people who suffer from some forms of mental illnesses cannot function in society. We used to lock them up, then we started locking up people we just didnt' like or didn't need to be in an institution. That was wrong, but, it was not wrong that some people do need to be in an environment where they are cared for 24/7. We are in such deep denial of mental illnesses. Christians especially, I hate to say, are some of the ones most in denial. We had a parishioner at our parish suffering from schizophrenia. He had a series of breakdowns and started to harass me and basically the whole parish. He made various threats to harm himself and others. I had to get a restraining order against him.
You would not believe how so many in my parish just didn't want to believe that he was suffering from any mental illnesses. They kept saying things like "its just his personality", or "He's just having a hard time and we need to be forgiving and understanding". He winded up killing himself.

 

[truefiction1]

"He loves to whine about shootings and use a tragic situation to jump on his "let's disarm American gun owners!" soapbox. If the moron stopped to think that, if just 20% of those kids could be carrying a pistol on campus, that shooter would've been D-E-A-D!"

Indeed. He shouldn't whine, he needs to be a leader and make decisive choices and decisions on behalf of all of us, including his sorry excuse for a foreign policy.

I do believe that this whole mass shooting thing goes beyond gun control (its a part of it). There is something fundamentally wrong with our society when you have people who think it is perfectly fine for them to pick up a gun and mow people down with it.

This is something Obama seems to be ignoring or denying. There's plenty of gun control laws on the books already. Of course, Obama thinks that's the only solution to this problem.

The other part of this is how we as a society handle mental illnesses. Some people who suffer from some forms of mental illnesses cannot function in society. We used to lock them up, then we started locking up people we just didnt' like or didn't need to be in an institution. That was wrong, but, it was not wrong that some people do need to be in an environment where they are cared for 24/7. We are in such deep denial of mental illnesses. Christians especially, I hate to say, are some of the ones most in denial. We had a parishioner at our parish suffering from schizophrenia. He had a series of breakdowns and started to harass me and basically the whole parish. He made various threats to harm himself and others. I had to get a restraining order against him.
You would not believe how so many in my parish just didn't want to believe that he was suffering from any mental illnesses. They kept saying things like "its just his personality", or "He's just having a hard time and we need to be forgiving and understanding". He winded up killing himself.

What would you do differently now that you know what could happen with such a person?