ROC Declares War Against ISIS A 'Holy Battle'

[Wgw]

Indeed he has not. His forces have imprisoned Syriac nationalists and raided Syriac political organizations, however. The truth is that those who see him as more pro-Christian tend to be Arabists anyway, which fits your communion better than mine (so perhaps you'll find more Assad loyalists among EO than OO, but there are probably enough in both because everybody recognizes he's better than the Islamists). Still, you'd have to be crazy to think that a secular leader should be removed when the alternatives really are the FSA, Al-Nusra, ISIS, and the like.

Are you Syriac Orthodox out of curiosity?

 

[dzheremi]

Nope. Coptic. Syriac Orthodox and Assyrian friends of mine from Syria and Iraq all say the same thing, though. In fact, the only real exceptions I've found to pro-Assad sentiments among Christians from there has been when they talk about how his forces have imprisoned Syriac/Assyrian nationalists and caused trouble for Syriac political parties (hence, they say, why groups like the Syriac Union Party are anti-Assad; apparently he's used the war as an excuse to crack down on their activities in a manner similar to how Turkey is now presenting its war against PKK as integral to the war on terror, as though either the SUP or the PKK are allied with ISIS).

 

[buzuxi02]

Ahem. Rebel groups in Syria are not limited to al-Qaeda or ISIS. What about the Free Syrian Army? Aside if by terrorist you mean the deliberate targeting of non-combatants, Assad has done more than his share of that.

Which Free Syrian Army are you refering to? Isnt the FSA nothing more than an umbrella term for multiple factions all fighting against Assad but will turn on each other the moment he is toppled?
Before my country (the U.S.A.) turned the FSA into moderate freedom fighter, they were Al Quaeda on steroids raping and beheading. At the very least christians definately do not want this multi-headed FSA affiliated groups (which internally refer to their militia by different names) in charge:
Syria’s Christians Flee Kidnappings, Rape, Executions - The Daily Beast

Source?
What I heard is that in 2015 the OPCW-UN Joint Mission in Syria disclosed previously undeclared traces of sarin and VX precursor compounds in a military research site where use of those compounds had not been previously declared.

That finding does not uncover who took the chemicals, It also does not uncover which side may have used them:
The Jewish Press » » Where Did Those Come From? Undeclared Chemical Weapon Traces Found in Syria
But as far as the Sarin gas, here is a few articles:
U.N. has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas: investigator | Reuters
Syria rebels reject UN chemical weapons claim - Al Jazeera English
Video shows rebels launching chemical attacks, will Obama strike Syria anyway? | Examiner.com

 

[smaneck]

If the Assad regime falls, what kind of regime do you imagine will take its place? I would wager that most of the FSA are Islamist as well, though granted perhaps less extreme than Al-Nusra and ISIS.

FSA is not Islamist, although they are mostly Sunnis. In any case, it is hard to imagine a scenario which doesn't end in genocide at this point because of the rage now felt by the majority against the Alawites who kept the majority oppressed for so long. Partition may be the only solution at this point.

Regardless, I have a hard time imagining that a rebel regime would be pluralistic or tolerate of non-Muslims. More like an oppressive Islamist dictatorship.

I don't think an FSA regime would oppress non-Muslims. I'd be more concerned that they would slaughter Alawites.

Quite frankly I think a secular dictatorship is preferable to an Islamist dictatorship.

My guess is you would prefer it to a an Islamic democracy as well. We seem to only want democracies when they operate the way we like, not the way the majority of the people of that land might prefer. Otherwise we are happy to prop up dictatorships.

 

[smaneck]

Which Free Syrian Army are you refering to? Isnt the FSA nothing more than an umbrella term for multiple factions all fighting against Assad but will turn on each other the moment he is toppled?

Yes, it is an umbrella organization rather like the PLO. But it does not include the Islamist factions contrary to your claim that all the rebels are Islamist terrorists.

Before my country (the U.S.A.) turned the FSA into moderate freedom fighter, they were Al Quaeda on steroids raping and beheading.

Uh, no. The Islamist groups are not a part of the FSA.

At the very least christians definately do not want this multi-headed FSA affiliated groups (which internally refer to their militia by different names) in charge:

As I said earlier, it was a Christian who founded the Baath Party to begin with and the Christian community has always supported the Baath both in Syria and Iraq. That may be one of the reasons they are being targeted.

That finding does not uncover who took the chemicals,

You stated that there was evidence that the sarin gas didn't come from the Syrian governments stash to start with, something the evidence fails to support. In fact what it shows is that Syria had stock piles it failed to report.

The issue isn't whether the rebels have ever used sarin gas, the issue is whether or not the Syrian government used sarin gas against non-combatants. And the evidence is pretty clear that they did. If the rebels used it, they wouldn't have used it in predominantly Sunni areas which is where most of the casualties are. They didn't gas themselves.

 

[smaneck]

By terrorist we mean Islamist theocratic lunatics to be precise.

In other words if Assad's government commits an act of terrorism, it doesn't count because they are secularists. The FSA are largely secularists as well. Yet those are the folks Russia is bombing.

ISIS/FSA/Al-Nusra/Al-Qaeda ain't got no humanity, why they're the foot soldiers of a Jew-hatin', mass murderin' maniac and they need to be dee-stroyed.

Sorry, but FSA doesn't belong in the same category as ISIS, al-Nusra and al-Qaeda. But labeling people as sub-human as always been the best way of justifying genocide.

 

[David4223]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has undergone a cleanup. Please remember to address the content of the post and not the poster's character.

Treat others as you would like to be treated.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

The FSA is totally Islamist and is allies with with the Islamic front. Putin has specifically stated that he isn't distinguishing between rebel Islamist factions, deeming it absurd. At present Russia is targeting rebel territories closest to the loyalist territories before presumably moving on to other military targets.

I also would like to remind people that the US has been leading air strikes for 4 years now. Also, I was quoting a line from a movie and was obviously being facetious but alright.

 

[dzheremi]

Some of you in this thread might be interested in reading the reflections of Theo Padnos, the American journalist held in Syria variously by the FSA, Jabhat al Nusra, and others. Especially those of you who are claiming that the FSA cannot be put in the same class as other Islamists should read it.

Synopsis: Yes, they absolutely can.

 

[smaneck]

[QUOTE="dzheremi, post: 68689236, member: 357536] Especially those of you who are claiming that the FSA cannot be put in the same class as other Islamists should read it.

Synopsis: Yes, they absolutely can.[/QUOTE]

If torture is your criteria then Assad and his army are Islamists as well.

 

[smaneck]

The FSA is totally Islamist and is allies with with the Islamic front. Putin has specifically stated that he isn't distinguishing between rebel Islamist factions, deeming it absurd. At present Russia is targeting rebel territories closest to the loyalist territories before presumably moving on to other military targets.

Which really translates as attacking the Alawite minority against the Sunni majority. But then Russia never did believe in democracy.

I also would like to remind people that the US has been leading air strikes for 4 years now.

Yes, although our air strikes have been much more selective than Russia's appear to be.

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

Which really translates as attacking the Alawite minority against the Sunni majority. But then Russia never did believe in democracy.

Unless you're speaking in terms of "collateral damage" I don't see how bombing/attacking Sunni Islamist groups like FSA/ISIS would be hurting the Alawite.

To be Frank, my primary concern is the safety of Christians in the Levant, along with Kurds, Yezidi, etc.

Yes, although our air strikes have been much more selective than Russia's appear to be.

Exactly, selective as in never hitting the FSA or ISIS. Selective like in Afghanistan, hitting a neutral "doctors without borders" hospital and then blaming the Afghans saying they told us too.

It also been pointed out in this thread that a lot or charges leveled against the Assad administration, are actually rebel/NATO false flags. As with the nuclear weapons. Seriously, you either have to have no moral compass as all or be doing some serious intellectual acrobatics to not concede; Russia has taken the correct position to the Syrian problem.

For better or worse I am confident history will prove as such.

Anyone else remember the photo of the FSA regular eating a human heart?

 

[dzheremi]

If torture is your criteria then Assad and his army are Islamists as well.

Openly cooperating with Al-Nusra and other Islamists is my criteria, as that's what the author of the story at the link, who was held by these very same Islamists, observed and experienced in the case of his own captivity.

That's what the FSA are actually doing. It's not pro-Assad propaganda. Read the story again.

 

[ALoveDivine]

I don't think an FSA regime would oppress non-Muslims. I'd be more concerned that they would slaughter Alawites.

And in either case, the Assad regime is self-evidently preferable.

My guess is you would prefer it to a an Islamic democracy as well.

Honestly, yes. Democracy can very easily slide into mob rule. Would you support a democracy where the majority decided to slaughter the Alawites and other Shia? I'd rather see an iron-fisted secular dictator who prevents sectarian genocide, by force if necessary.

Islam is a very dangerous religion that tends to view non-muslims as second-class human beings at best and infidels and enemies at worst. A democracy run along these lines is unlikely to be a good thing long-term, and will likely morph into something quite un-democratic at some point.

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

Found it. The FSA ladies and gentleman.

 

[smaneck]

Unless you're speaking in terms of "collateral damage" I don't see how bombing/attacking Sunni Islamist groups like FSA/ISIS would be hurting the Alawite.

Sorry, I mispoke. I meant attacking the majority to defend the minority which has been oppressing the majority for decades.

To be Frank, my primary concern is the safety of Christians in the Levant, along with Kurds, Yezidi, etc.

Yes, I know. You are not concerned with the majority that were being oppressed.

Exactly, selective as in never hitting the FSA or ISIS.

We hit ISIS plenty of times.

Selective like in Afghanistan, hitting a neutral "doctors without borders" hospital and then blaming the Afghans saying they told us too.

Whereas you think that was deliberate?

It also been pointed out in this thread that a lot or charges leveled against the Assad administration, are actually rebel/NATO false flags.

Asserted, but not proven.

Seriously, you either have to have no moral compass as all or be doing some serious intellectual acrobatics to not concede; Russia has taken the correct position to the Syrian problem.

Or maybe I just know something about the Middle East. And I know that Putin can't be trusted as far as you can throw him.

Anyone else remember the photo of the FSA regular eating a human heart?

I remember a Christian doing that to a Muslim in Africa. What does that prove?

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

Sorry, I mispoke. I meant attacking the majority to defend the minority which has been oppressing the majority for decades.

Debatable, the idea that Arab Muslims have been persecuted in Syria have been persecuted by virtue of being Arab Muslims doesn't seem too high. I'm not saying Assad is this great leader however he's also no Saddam or Qaddafi either.

Yes, I know. You are not concerned with the majority that were being oppressed.

Asserted not demonstrated cherí.

We hit ISIS plenty of times.

And I've never drank rum before lol

Whereas you think that was deliberate?

Not necessarily, but they have begun blaming the Afghans.

Asserted, but not proven.

Other users posted articles containing evidences?

Or maybe I just know something about the Middle East.

As do I.

And I know that Putin can't be trusted as far as you can throw him.

Really? Because the man says what he is about and then does it, bad or good, there's no real guess work.

I remember a Christian doing that to a Muslim in Africa. What does that prove?

Putting the name and image of Christ in the middle of a Congo cult doesn't make said cult apart of Christendom but alright.

 

[dzheremi]

I remember a Christian doing that to a Muslim in Africa. What does that prove?

I would imagine that it proves that such people would not be fit to be recipients of western military and training aid either.

As it is, the FSA is receiving it anyway.

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

Whoops plz delete mods

 

[St Herman's Ghost]

This just in