Massachusettes sees at least 80 deaths from Covid among the vaccinated

[Sabertooth]

...are you suggesting that our people are not brave enough to suffer whatever “mistakes” might be made this time around?

If we release the experimental vaccine first to as many as would try it and
then release the old-school to the willing portion of the remainder, we will have built-in controls as a baseline to gauge the overall performance of the former.

Except for politics, I am surprised that no one in Europe is gathering data on which vaccine was used on the people who had breakthrough infections.

I know that the USA uses Pfizer, Moderna & J&J, but Europe uses, at least, Valneva & AZ, too. I haven't seen any reports on whether the breakthrough infections are happening to all vaccines equally or just to certain ones more than the rest.

 

[Sabertooth]

I know that the USA uses Pfizer, Moderna & J&J,...

I found out for the USA (but not Europe):
Pfizer & Moderna are 95% effective.
J&J, 72%.

 

[DamianWarS]

"Rare" breakthrough infections are sickening and killing people in Massachusetts.



More than 5,100 Massachusetts residents have tested positive for COVID-19, despite being fully vaccinated against the virus, and at least 80 of them have died, state health officials said Tuesday night.

The latest update from the state Department of Public Health comes as coronavirus metrics continue to creep up in the Bay State while the more contagious delta variant keeps spreading in the U.S.

The so-called breakthrough cases — where fully vaccinated individuals test positive for coronavirus — have so far been rare, but are possible. And should even be expected, per the CDC.

As of July 17, a total of 5,166 breakthrough cases had been reported to the state DPH. Of those, 272 people were hospitalized and survived. Of the 80 people who died, 23 died without being hospitalized; 57 died following a hospital stay.
More Than 5,100 Breakthrough COVID Cases Reported in Mass.; at Least 80 Have Died

anecdotal, what's the point? that Americans do a poor job at controlling covid.... we already knew that.

 

[ranunculus]

Of course reports of deaths among fully vaccinated people will increase with time but that's totally in line with expectations. With a less than 100% effective vaccine, when the number of vaccinated begins to surpass the number unvaccinated, deaths among vaccinated people will begin to rise.

Consider that if 100% of the population was vaccinated, the only ones dying would be vaccinated people.

Or to give another example, if absolutely 100% of drivers and passengers of automobiles wore seatbelts, the only people dying in automobiles accidents would be seatbelt wearers.

To somehow present this as a gotcha is either disingenuous or stupid.

 

[whatbogsends]

Your own link showed that the smallpox vaccine was 95% effective, not 100%. It doesn't need to be 100% effective to stop the virus completely dead, it just needs (combined with population coverage) to reduce the reproduction rate below 1, so that the typical patient passes it to less than 1 additional person and it eventually dies out.

The primary difference between eradicating smallpox with a vaccine and eradicating Covid with a vaccine is that smallpox didn't really mutate and create lots of variants, while the coronavirus is mutating quickly and is already showing that it's learning to evade the vaccines.

 

[Arcangl86]

Of course reports of deaths among fully vaccinated people will increase with time but that's totally in line with expectations. With a less than 100% effective vaccine, when the number of vaccinated begins to surpass the number unvaccinated, deaths among vaccinated people will begin to rise.

Consider that if 100% of the population was vaccinated, the only ones dying would be vaccinated people.

Or to give another example, if absolutely 100% of drivers and passengers of automobiles wore seatbelts, the only people dying in automobiles accidents would be seatbelt wearers.

To somehow present this as a gotcha is either disingenuous or stupid.

There is a problem in the US with binary thinking. Some people think if something is not 100% effective, it's the same as having no effect at all.

 

[rturner76]

It worked in that it eradicated the virus. The virus didn't spawn a "variant" a few months after a vaccine was created.

True. COVID is more like a mutated cold virus. The vaccines will likely change with the virus.

 

[rturner76]

There is a problem in the US with binary thinking. Some people think if something is not 100% effective, it's the same as having no effect at all.

I have noticed this trait among certain people. In the USA we need to see a big sign that says 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE Preferably a red, white, and blue sign with flashing letters

 

[GOD Shines Forth!]

Fact there are countless believers standing in faith... knowing why He came and died for. Knowing the promises are yes and amen. Looking always to Him not at anything else. He will never fail. Again ANYTHING without HIM..will always fail. This world has more reasons to lie then tell the truth.

Truth.

 

[variant]

Speaking of @variant !

I only picked that name over a decade ago.

 

[variant]

Of course reports of deaths among fully vaccinated people will increase with time but that's totally in line with expectations. With a less than 100% effective vaccine, when the number of vaccinated begins to surpass the number unvaccinated, deaths among vaccinated people will begin to rise.

Consider that if 100% of the population was vaccinated, the only ones dying would be vaccinated people.

Or to give another example, if absolutely 100% of drivers and passengers of automobiles wore seatbelts, the only people dying in automobiles accidents would be seatbelt wearers.

To somehow present this as a gotcha is either disingenuous or stupid.

Maddeningly stupid.

Similarly. If we put combat armor on all our troops then all our combat deaths will be in armored individuals.

If the next thing someone would say is "that means combat armor doesn't work" we can conclude they are stupid.

I'm frankly surprised at the level of specious reasoning employed by some folks, but that just may be my obvious overestimation of peoples ability to think.

 

[Aldebaran]

What I would expect is that the number would be so low as to be inconsequential.

If you want to make sure you live in some sort of irrational paralyzed fear of vaccines though, I bet you can find plenty of antidotal evidence to support it.

Any evidence contrary to the popular narrative is considered anecdotal. So yes, I could show you plenty.

 

[Aldebaran]

Of course reports of deaths among fully vaccinated people will increase with time but that's totally in line with expectations. With a less than 100% effective vaccine, when the number of vaccinated begins to surpass the number unvaccinated, deaths among vaccinated people will begin to rise.

Consider that if 100% of the population was vaccinated, the only ones dying would be vaccinated people.

Or to give another example, if absolutely 100% of drivers and passengers of automobiles wore seatbelts, the only people dying in automobiles accidents would be seatbelt wearers.

To somehow present this as a gotcha is either disingenuous or stupid.

The claims were that if you got vaccinated ("safe and effective"), you'd no longer have to wear a mask, and life would return to normal, and vaccinated people could congregate together without having to fear the virus. We're approaching 70% vaccinated in America while mask mandates are still the hot topic. Not exactly normal because the vaccines aren't exactly effective.

 

[Aldebaran]

The primary difference between eradicating smallpox with a vaccine and eradicating Covid with a vaccine is that smallpox didn't really mutate and create lots of variants, while the coronavirus is mutating quickly and is already showing that it's learning to evade the vaccines.

Sounds like it's either the most intelligent virus we've ever seen, or was created by an intelligence that wants to reduce the population.

 

[variant]

Any evidence contrary to the popular narrative is considered anecdotal. So yes, I could show you plenty.

If you can show me all of them and count them up it isn't anecdotal anymore.

Proper data collection is simply called statistics.

 

[Aldebaran]

If you can show me all of them and count them up it isn't anecdotal anymore.

They've been shown as they appear, so they've been shown at different times in different places.

 

[variant]

Sounds like it's either the most intelligent virus we've ever seen, or was created by an intelligence that wants to reduce the population.

If you're going to attribute agency to every RNA virus maybe.

 

[variant]

They've been shown as they appear, so they've been shown at different times in different places.

So, we should be able to know how many there are.

It seems like counting them up and showing how many there are compared to the number vaccinated should be pretty easy.

 

[.Jeremiah.]

Thank you for your informative response.

Aldebaran. I would like to apologize to you at this time, for my bad behavior in communication with you. I don’t know you, or what you’re going through, so I should always make every effort to be compassionate with everyone I meet and talk to, whether online or in person. If I offended you in any way, please accept my sincere apologies now. I hope that you and everyone else gets through these troubling times we’re experiencing, as positively as possible.

 

[Aldebaran]

Aldebaran. I would like to apologize to you at this time, for my bad behavior in communication with you. I don’t know you, or what you’re going through, so I should always make every effort to be compassionate with everyone I meet and talk to, whether online or in person. If I offended you in any way, please accept my sincere apologies now. I hope that you and everyone else gets through these troubling times we’re experiencing, as positively as possible.

That's ok. Don't worry about it. I do it all the time.
Peace to you my friend!