Massachusettes sees at least 80 deaths from Covid among the vaccinated

[Hans Blaster]

Sounds like it's either the most intelligent virus we've ever seen, or was created by an intelligence that wants to reduce the population.

It's just evolution. Pretty standard stuff.

 

[Aldebaran]

It's just evolution. Pretty standard stuff.

That's some pretty fast evolving that took place in only about a year and a half.

 

[variant]

That's some pretty fast evolving that took place in only about a year and a half.

Not really no, the standard Flu is faster by I think six times. Which is why they create a new flu vaccine every year.

It's also why we were successful in eradicating smallpox but not the common cold or the flu (both of which mutate faster than COVID).

Viruses aren't alive in the same sense that you are given that they need to co-opt cellular machinery to propagate. They are however the thing that has the highest mutation rate among those things we've observed due to their very short generation time and complete lack of any mechanism for genetic stability.

Also the overwhelming majority of viruses produced don't infect anyone. They are produced in the billions/trillions by one carrier and infect at most some number over 1 other person per infection during a exponential growth phase of a virus.

So yeah, they evolve pretty fast.

 

[sfs]

Not really no, the standard Flu is faster by I think six times.

When I looked into this last year, I concluded that influenza A was about twice as fast (number of mutations per year) as SARS-CoV-2, while flu B was about the same rate as SARS-CoV-2.

ETA: But yeah, all the RNA viruses evolve rapidly.

 

[variant]

When I looked into this last year, I concluded that influenza A was about twice as fast (number of mutations per year) as SARS-CoV-2, while flu B was about the same rate as SARS-CoV-2.

ETA: But yeah, all the RNA viruses evolve rapidly.

I was just going from memory. It would have been early on when they were estimating mutation rates between corona type viruses and influenza.

For instance...

(edit) Here:
Coronavirus seems to mutate much slower than seasonal flu

and here:
SARS-CoV-2 and influenza: a comparative overview and treatment implications - PubMed

and here (read substitution rate%)
Table 5 Comparison of the Mutation Rates in SARS-CoV, Influenza Virus,...

Where were you getting your info? My outlook has been predicated on the idea that Corona was significantly slower than Flu in accumulating mutations.

Influenza has a particularly nasty mutation rate due to some quirks of how the virus organizes itself. So, it would be quite problematic to do a lasting vaccine to it.

 

[sfs]

For instance...

(edit) Here:
Coronavirus seems to mutate much slower than seasonal flu

That one seems to agree with the value I suggested. What value you get depends in part on exactly what it is you're estimating: mutation rate vs substitution rate, rate per time vs rate per generation, rate per base pair vs rate per genome. Getting a clear picture is a bit of a bother.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Hmmm... Might was to check and see if MA got a bad batch of vaccine...

Or worse, there's a story about an anti-vax nurse in Germany who jabbed about 8,000 patients with placebos... Might merit an investigation.

 

[rjs330]

The claims were that if you got vaccinated ("safe and effective"), you'd no longer have to wear a mask, and life would return to normal, and vaccinated people could congregate together without having to fear the virus. We're approaching 70% vaccinated in America while mask mandates are still the hot topic. Not exactly normal because the vaccines aren't exactly effective.

I think we need realism in all of this. We knew from the start that vaccines were not 100% effective. And I think that needs to be shouted from the rooftops. Because in all the talk of "get vaccinated" that's missing.

That being said the vaccines are 95% EFFECTIVE! That's pretty great in my book. And a solid reason to get back to normal. No shut downs, no masks, just normal. And each individual has full knowledge that if they go out I to the public they still have a 5% chance of getting COVID. An informed risk. And even if we do get it, there is a very tiny chance of dying from it. Leave at your own risk.

I'm vaccinated. I know there is a chance I can still get it and know there is a very tiny chance I could die. But I refuse to live my life in fear of it. I'm out, I act normally and live maskless unless a business requires a mask. Then I either don't go, or I wear a mask. My choice. That's how it should be.

 

[hedrick]

I found out for the USA (but not Europe):
Pfizer & Moderna are 95% effective.
J&J, 72%.

Maybe not now. Currently 93% for Moderna after vaccination, 92% after 120 days. But for Pfizer it was 91 and 77%. J and J was 71 for the whole period. They didn’t have enough data to separate by days or J and J.
Comparative Effectiveness of Moderna...

Thats effectiveness against hospitalization. But that assumes their statistical procedures are good. If not, the decline in Pfizer could be wrong. https://www.covid-datascience.com/p...strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

 

[pitabread]

nevermind

 

[loveofourlord]

"Safe and effective"=5,166 sick and 80 dead.

Out of 4.63 million vacinated with 23 dead just yesterday, so 80 over all isn't bad. 1/4 the number dead today over longer period of time, I love it when you guys show vaccines are effective while trying to debunk.

 

[loveofourlord]

I think we better drop the word "rare". Obviously it's not rare at all to get covid even if you are fully vaxed.

YES when the TOTAL over the last year is 4X's the deaths of one day and 2.5X's the cases of one day it is rare.

 

[loveofourlord]

Ironically, "one death is just too many" when it came to the actual virus killing people, so we were expected to take drastic measures, yet when 80(or any number of people) die from vaccines, it's "a small insignificant number".

I'm so exhausted by the vaccine cult.

because the vaccine kept that number from being higher, thats 80 people out of 4+ million vaccinated, where as today 20 people died. I could say the reverse to you. 20 dying a day isn't a big deal, but 80 over a year is insanely bad.

 

[loveofourlord]

They didn't die from the vaccine. 80 was the number that died regardless of their vaccination status.

The numbers show us that more than 10-20 times that would have died otherwise.

Trust us the feeling of exhaustion is mutual. More justified on our end, but mutual.

even if 80 died from the vaccine, thats 80 over a year vs 20 today from covid,.

 

[Mayzoo]

When I first replied to your first "smallpox" post, I had hope that your post wasn't disingenuous. Alas, that hope was unjustified.

I want everyone to understand how disingenuous that posting was.

There were no deaths from smallpox this decade from smallpox inoculated individuals, because *NO ONE* got smallpox because the disease isn't circulating. On the other hand, SARS-CoV-2 is circulating, not just a little, but quite a bit. Since *NO* vaccine stops *ALL* infections, any disease that can cause death can result in deaths in vaccinated individuals. Others have posted appropriate data.

This is equivalent to complaining that airbags aren't effective because some people in car crashes die after interacting with an airbag (i.e., it doesn't prevent their deaths) in contrasts to Space Shuttles, which haven't killed anyone in the last 10 years when no one has even traveled by Space Shuttle in the last 10 years.

I cannot find your postings and motivations to be credibly motivated on this topic.

Even if smallpox had been circulating, it is transmitted in an entirely different way. Airborne (Covid) vs direct, and prolonged face-to-face contact is vastly different in transmissibility risk (smallpox).

On the plus side, smallpox was all but eradicated due to a vaccine.

Smallpox spreads from contact with infected persons. Generally, direct and fairly prolonged face-to-face contact is required to spread smallpox from one person to another. Smallpox also can be spread through direct contact with infected bodily fluids or contaminated objects such as bedding or clothing. Link

COVID-19 spreads when an infected person breathes out droplets and very small particles that contain the virus. These droplets and particles can be breathed in by other people or land on their eyes, noses, or mouth. In some circumstances, they may contaminate surfaces they touch. People who are closer than 6 feet from the infected person are most likely to get infected. Link

 

[Aldebaran]

COVID-19 spreads when an infected person breathes out droplets and very small particles that contain the virus. These droplets and particles can be breathed in by other people or land on their eyes, noses, or mouth. In some circumstances, they may contaminate surfaces they touch. People who are closer than 6 feet from the infected person are most likely to get infected. Link

It's even been detected in animals of different kinds, both wild and domestic. Makes me wonder why we don't take into consideration that the virus could be circulating among squirrels, rabbits, birds, and other wildlife that could easily spread it around for it to get back to humans in completely different locations.

 

[pitabread]

Makes me wonder why we don't take into consideration that the virus could be circulating among squirrels, rabbits, birds, and other wildlife that could easily spread it around for it to get back to humans in completely different locations.

That is taken into consideration (at least by epidemiologists). Transmission of viruses between different host species is well known.

 

[Mayzoo]

It's even been detected in animals of different kinds, both wild and domestic. Makes me wonder why we don't take into consideration that the virus could be circulating among squirrels, rabbits, birds, and other wildlife that could easily spread it around for it to get back to humans in completely different locations.

It has been discussed, from what I have read, quite often and since the beginning of the pandemic.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

"Rare" breakthrough infections are sickening and killing people in Massachusetts.



More than 5,100 Massachusetts residents have tested positive for COVID-19, despite being fully vaccinated against the virus, and at least 80 of them have died, state health officials said Tuesday night.

The latest update from the state Department of Public Health comes as coronavirus metrics continue to creep up in the Bay State while the more contagious delta variant keeps spreading in the U.S.

The so-called breakthrough cases — where fully vaccinated individuals test positive for coronavirus — have so far been rare, but are possible. And should even be expected, per the CDC.

As of July 17, a total of 5,166 breakthrough cases had been reported to the state DPH. Of those, 272 people were hospitalized and survived. Of the 80 people who died, 23 died without being hospitalized; 57 died following a hospital stay.
More Than 5,100 Breakthrough COVID Cases Reported in Mass.; at Least 80 Have Died

Yep. The "crazy conspiracy theorists" of a year ago warned this was going to happen as the virus would inevitably mutate to evade the vaccine.

 

[loveofourlord]

Yep. The "crazy conspiracy theorists" of a year ago warned this was going to happen as the virus would inevitably mutate to evade the vaccine.

Just as it will mutate to avoid natural immunity.