Is the Beast in Rev 17 is all Rome ?

[jgr]

Really? Well here's an article a dozen years after the August 1993 proposal (as reported in the November publication):

U.N. Security Council Expansion Is Not in the U.S. Interest

August 18, 2005
Authors: Nile Gardiner and Brett Schaefer

In the next few months, the United Nations General Assembly is expected to consider several proposals to expand the U.N. Security Council from the current 15 members-five permanent members (China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States) and 10 non-permanent members elected to two-year terms. [1] There are several plans under consideration:

• The most discussed proposal is sponsored by Germany, Japan, India, and Brazil-the so-called Group of Four (G-4) nations aspiring to permanent membership on the Security Council. This plan would expand the Security Council from 15 to 25 members by adding six permanent members without veto power (one for each of the G-4 nations and two for Africa) and four non-permanent seats elected for two-year terms. [2] The G-4 plan is supported by the U.K. and France, but strongly opposed by China.

...
https://www.heritage.org/report/un-security-council-expansion-not-the-us-interest
​

So if YOU can't find something, then it doesn't exist?

DaDad

If the organization that published it can't find it, then that organization doesn't care whether or not it exists i.e. it is of no further significance to the organization.

You'll also notice that the article you cited confirms what I found -- that there will be no Security Council expansion.

Which invalidates your ten future kingdoms hypothesis.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I find the above a concise and compelling response to the thread topic and I urge people to take the time to read and to understand what @TribulationSigns is trying to explain.

Thank you. I, too, have noticed many people were not fond of my explanation because they did not feel like "studying" the Scripture and find out what number seven means. It is spiritual discrnment that only the Spirit of God can help you see what He actually talked about.

Revelation 17 is focussed more on the woman than it is focused on the beast that carries her. The woman has to be the Old and New Covenant Church under whatever beast (religious head) she served.

Right. The woman "IS" the congregation of God, Israel. She represents National Israel in the Old Testament and after the Cross, she now represents the Church in the old Testament where Christ is now a chief cornerstone of this building.

Keep that mind that the woman makes up of two groups of people in God's Kingdom. One is Elect whom God has chosen, and the another is PROFESSED BELIEVERS that God also brought into but not truly saved. That is why the Jewish leaders (pharisaical religious system) were indeed part of Christ's body representing the Old Testament congregation. But Christ warned them that THEY will destroy the temple (Christ's body - congregation) and in three days, Christ will rebuilt it. That is why the kingdom representaive of the woman was transferred from old testament congregation to the New Testament congreagation but she is STILL same woman. She just contiuned over into the New Testament where Gentiles are being add into her. So she fled into the wilderness (world without water) where she is fed with Gospel for the whole new testament period as long as God is sealing His people. Yes, there were professed or corporate believers in the church but they did not have the power to rule the church yet until:

1.) God finish sealing his People (Revelation 7)
2.) The Testimony of Two Witnesses (Elect) is finished (Revelation 11)
3.) Satan will be loosened

Satan will give the professed believers the "power" to overcome the testimony of Elect where they will start ruling the church with false doctrines like we are seeing today. This is HOW the woman as "become" Babylon the Great, Revelation 18.

This is WHY the battle of Armaggeddon, aka, the Battle of Gog and Magog have everything to do with CHURCH today where God is judging her for her UNFAITHFULNESS. For exmaple, more and more professed Christians loves their false prophets more than God and do not want to obey God. This is how desolate comes to churches today. ONly the Elect "can" see the abomninatin of desolation taking place in the "holy place' where it ought not.

The woman must claim to be the Church of the Old and the New Covenants. Jesus did accuse the Pharisaical religious system with the blood of the innocent and they were the Church of their time within the Old Covenant age.

Amen! And that generation or family of evil CONTINUED into the New Testmanet, althouigh, restrained by God so that His church could be build. Then at the time of the end, when Satan is loosed, God will remove his restraining hand, the generation of evil will get worse because there are MORE false prophets and christs among the sheeps today. For a short season, until all things are fulfilled. THis generation of evil will finally end when Christ returns. That is what it is about! Nothing to do with physical generation within 70AD or modern nation of Israel that MANY people are deceied by this lie from the false prophets and christs. That is why MANY people in the church cannot see what is wrong with their church thinking they will be rapture out first and not suffer the "wrath of God" for 7 years and believe that everything will have to do with national Israel. That is lies from hell!

The Woman in the New Covenant must also project herself as the Church and yet be responsible for the blood of the innocent from the Cross until today.

To all God's people saying AMEN! Glad you see this!

The only woman that is an extension of the woman in the Old Testament times is the Papal religion of Rome. Rome can also be charged with the blood of the innocent because they are responsible for killing millions of Christians. The clue that it is Rome is that it is claimed that she has many daughters and these daughters that branched out from her are the Protestants denominations and assemblies. The ten kings who serve under her who have not previously had a kingdom are the heads of those daughters that come back to her in the final hour. The Ecumenical Movement seems to point us to the Woman, her daughters and the ten heads of the daughters who give their power to the beast and so the beast must be the head of the woman. The Reformers were right in saying the king that rules over the woman is the seat of the Papacy.

I am sorry, but no. The RCC was never part of God's kingdom, because she started long before the time of the end, before Satan was loosened. They are not prophesied by God to qualify as Babylon in the time of the end. Our enemies are not Papal, but the very false prophets and christs who are ruling in our mainstream church. RCC is already in Satan's camp and is NOT the church.

The king that is the eighth and is of the seventh is a head figure who follows in the footsteps of the other religious heads in the Church System.

The heads up on the beast signify authority. The authority of the beast. The beast is the body of Satan making up of professed Christians WITHIN God's congregation which the woman sits (rules). RCC does not qualify.

Notice that the ten go along with the king of the woman for so long until God puts it in their hearts to turn on her and to figuratively burn her.

The number ten in Scripture signifies "fullness of whatever is in view." The horns signify "power." The horns are upon the beast so God is talking about the fullness of power that the professed christians have AT THAT TIME, that God allowed them to destory woman (His congregation) as a judgment. Nothing to do with RCC. Satan don't destroy RCC which was already under him. He wants God's church and had his false prophets and christs to destroy the woman for who she once represented. Again RCC does not qualify.

This woman can only be Rome and the diagram below highlights the ten kings are the denominations and assemblies who gather at the fullness of time when the Gentiles have come to full, under the revived eighth king of the woman as it was in the millennia during the inquisitions.

You believe that Woman is Rome or RCC.
The Scripture states that the Woman is God's congregation, because she is the SAME WOMAN that John saw in Revelation 12. You do not find Rome nor RCC in Revelation 12.

Notice the waging of war against the Lamb and his called, chosen and faithful followers is an end of days inquisition that is a repeat of what Rome did to the Christians previously, but this time with the help of her many prostitute daughters who ecumenically join her for the last hour to perpetrate the unthinkable in the name of religion.

Okay, the whole New Testament period is when God was building HIS CHURCH (not RCC), and yes there was trail and tribulation for some Elect before us during that time. But today is the GREAT Tribulation, unlike before or in the future which is SPIRITUAL in nature, where Satan and his army of false prophets and christs coming INTO God's congregation all over the world to deceive...who? Listen to what God says:

Revelation 9:1-6 KJV
[1] And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
[2] And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
[3] And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
[4] And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
[5] And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
[6] And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

God is talking about HIS PEOPLE in HIS congregation. The grass of the earth, green thing, and tree represent MEN in his congregation. That is God's definition. Consider wisely:

Mark 8:22-25 KJV​

[22] And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
[23] And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
[24] And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
[25] After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

See? Christ wanted us to understand how He see things. He see trees as "men" therefore, the trees in Revelation 9:4 to represent men. Notice that Christ has sealed SOME of grass, green things and trees for HImself while the rest are left for locusts to deceive. The smoke locusts are men with spirit of antichrist who will deceive ALL men, women, and children in the congregation of God who have not yet sealed by God! This is what is happening today with Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Todd Bentley, Johnthan Prince, etc. etc.. There are MANY frogs and locusts out there that God sees as these men who have spirit of antichrist! They are all over the churches today, under direction of God, as a judgment for her unfaithful!

See? This has nothing to do with RCC because she was already under Satan's camp, OUTSIDE God's building of His church. RCC was NEVER part of God's congregation. Selah. God did not protect RCC from Satan. He protected HIS CHURCH making up of true Elect and yes, some, professed Christians until He finishes sealing His Elect FIRST, before Satan is allowed to come out of bottomless pit. Then God will use him as a tool of judgment upon His unfaithful congregation. Not RCC.

HOpe this helps.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I never said I knew anything, but YOU, and ONLY YOU know EVERYTHING. In fact, if GOD didn't know something, HE'd come to YOU.
All you have to do is read the Post above to see how much we ALL depend on your insights.
Thanks,
DaDad

Obviously, you are being silly and sarcastic. This will NOT going to help your case. Really!

 

[Kalboon]

Thank you. I, too, have noticed many people were not fond of my explanation because they did not feel like "studying" the Scripture and find out what number seven means. It is spiritual discrnment that only the Spirit of God can help you see what He actually talked about.



Right. The woman "IS" the congregation of God, Israel. She represents National Israel in the Old Testament and after the Cross, she now represents the Church in the old Testament where Christ is now a chief cornerstone of this building.

Keep that mind that the woman makes up of two groups of people in God's Kingdom. One is Elect whom God has chosen, and the another is PROFESSED BELIEVERS that God also brought into but not truly saved. That is why the Jewish leaders (pharisaical religious system) were indeed part of Christ's body representing the Old Testament congregation. But Christ warned them that THEY will destroy the temple (Christ's body - congregation) and in three days, Christ will rebuilt it. That is why the kingdom representaive of the woman was transferred from old testament congregation to the New Testament congreagation but she is STILL same woman. She just contiuned over into the New Testament where Gentiles are being add into her. So she fled into the wilderness (world without water) where she is fed with Gospel for the whole new testament period as long as God is sealing His people. Yes, there were professed or corporate believers in the church but they did not have the power to rule the church yet until:

1.) God finish sealing his People (Revelation 7)
2.) The Testimony of Two Witnesses (Elect) is finished (Revelation 11)
3.) Satan will be loosened

Satan will give the professed believers the "power" to overcome the testimony of Elect where they will start ruling the church with false doctrines like we are seeing today. This is HOW the woman as "become" Babylon the Great, Revelation 18.

This is WHY the battle of Armaggeddon, aka, the Battle of Gog and Magog have everything to do with CHURCH today where God is judging her for her UNFAITHFULNESS. For exmaple, more and more professed Christians loves their false prophets more than God and do not want to obey God. This is how desolate comes to churches today. ONly the Elect "can" see the abomninatin of desolation taking place in the "holy place' where it ought not.



Amen! And that generation or family of evil CONTINUED into the New Testmanet, althouigh, restrained by God so that His church could be build. Then at the time of the end, when Satan is loosed, God will remove his restraining hand, the generation of evil will get worse because there are MORE false prophets and christs among the sheeps today. For a short season, until all things are fulfilled. THis generation of evil will finally end when Christ returns. That is what it is about! Nothing to do with physical generation within 70AD or modern nation of Israel that MANY people are deceied by this lie from the false prophets and christs. That is why MANY people in the church cannot see what is wrong with their church thinking they will be rapture out first and not suffer the "wrath of God" for 7 years and believe that everything will have to do with national Israel. That is lies from hell!



To all God's people saying AMEN! Glad you see this!



I am sorry, but no. The RCC was never part of God's kingdom, because she started long before the time of the end, before Satan was loosened. They are not prophesied by God to qualify as Babylon in the time of the end. Our enemies are not Papal, but the very false prophets and christs who are ruling in our mainstream church. RCC is already in Satan's camp and is NOT the church.



The heads up on the beast signify authority. The authority of the beast. The beast is the body of Satan making up of professed Christians WITHIN God's congregation which the woman sits (rules). RCC does not qualify.



The number ten in Scripture signifies "fullness of whatever is in view." The horns signify "power." The horns are upon the beast so God is talking about the fullness of power that the professed christians have AT THAT TIME, that God allowed them to destory woman (His congregation) as a judgment. Nothing to do with RCC. Satan don't destroy RCC which was already under him. He wants God's church and had his false prophets and christs to destroy the woman for who she once represented. Again RCC does not qualify.



You believe that Woman is Rome or RCC.
The Scripture states that the Woman is God's congregation, because she is the SAME WOMAN that John saw in Revelation 12. You do not find Rome nor RCC in Revelation 12.



Okay, the whole New Testament period is when God was building HIS CHURCH (not RCC), and yes there was trail and tribulation for some Elect before us during that time. But today is the GREAT Tribulation, unlike before or in the future which is SPIRITUAL in nature, where Satan and his army of false prophets and christs coming INTO God's congregation all over the world to deceive...who? Listen to what God says:

Revelation 9:1-6 KJV
[1] And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
[2] And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
[3] And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
[4] And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
[5] And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
[6] And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

God is talking about HIS PEOPLE in HIS congregation. The grass of the earth, green thing, and tree represent MEN in his congregation. That is God's definition. Consider wisely:

Mark 8:22-25 KJV​

[22] And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.
[23] And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
[24] And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
[25] After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

See? Christ wanted us to understand how He see things. He see trees as "men" therefore, the trees in Revelation 9:4 to represent men. Notice that Christ has sealed SOME of grass, green things and trees for HImself while the rest are left for locusts to deceive. The smoke locusts are men with spirit of antichrist who will deceive ALL men, women, and children in the congregation of God who have not yet sealed by God! This is what is happening today with Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Todd Bentley, Johnthan Prince, etc. etc.. There are MANY frogs and locusts out there that God sees as these men who have spirit of antichrist! They are all over the churches today, under direction of God, as a judgment for her unfaithful!

See? This has nothing to do with RCC because she was already under Satan's camp, OUTSIDE God's building of His church. RCC was NEVER part of God's congregation. Selah. God did not protect RCC from Satan. He protected HIS CHURCH making up of true Elect and yes, some, professed Christians until He finishes sealing His Elect FIRST, before Satan is allowed to come out of bottomless pit. Then God will use him as a tool of judgment upon His unfaithful congregation. Not RCC.

HOpe this helps.

I see it and agree. Instruments must he used by Satan within and without in order to wage war against the Lamb and hus chosen, Elect and faithful followers.

It seems we are on the outer and the snakes are in the inner so to speak and the times of the separation of the Tares from the Wheat is at the door.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I see it and agree. Instruments must he used by Satan within and without in order to wage war against the Lamb and hus chosen, Elect and faithful followers.

Indeed! That is why it is the CHURCH is where Satan wants to rule - the home of the Elect but God only allow him to deceive those within without the seal of God. That is why Satan's deception is so strong in the church that God warned His Elect to come out of her (woman). Satan's deception is the lie that God used as a judgment:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 KJV
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​

It is all about unrighteousness found within God's Congregation. NOt RCC, Not Rome, Not Russia, not Iran. But God's congregation where people are supposed to worship God and love the Truth. That is where many people failed to see this because they are too busy looking for papal, antichrist, european nations, russian invasion of national Israel, etc. not aware that they are under judgment of God RIGHT IN THEIR CHURCH where God's Elect "can see" and flee.

Matthew 24:15-16 KJV

[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:​

The only holy place on this side of the Cross is the CHURCH which Judaea REPRESENTS! Selah! That is why Jesus warned that only those "who readeth, let him understand" will be able to see it and understand what he need to do.

It seems we are on the outer and the snakes are in the inner so to speak and the times of the separation of the Tares from the Wheat is at the door.

Indeed! Don't forget about the parable that Tares of the congregation is to be binded first! Being binded means God is gathering all professed christians together in his church (eg. "in the valley of decision" or "to a place called "Armageddon") where they will be forced to believe an LIE to be prepared to thrown into the Lake of Fire along with the unsaved Heathen of the world, when Christ returns. This is why God's congregation must be judged FIRST BEFORE the rest of the world when Christ returns.

1 Peter 4:17 KJV
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?​

The judgment of the church comes first until the "hour" of Babylon the Great's judgment is finished. Then the last trump shall be sound and the rapture. We are very close to Christ's coming than we think because we now "understand" what Christ is talking about while MANY MANY professed christians, here and in church will deny God will judge His Church - just exactly what Lot's sons in law said when they were warned by him!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Indeed! That is why it is the CHURCH is where Satan wants to rule - the home of the Elect but God only allow him to deceive those within without the seal of God. That is why Satan's deception is so strong in the church that God warned His Elect to come out of her (woman). Satan's deception is the lie that God used as a judgment:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 KJV
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​

It is all about unrighteousness found within God's Congregation. NOt RCC, Not Rome, Not Russia, not Iran. But God's congregation where people are supposed to worship God and love the Truth. That is where many people failed to see this because they are too busy looking for papal, antichrist, european nations, russian invasion of national Israel, etc. not aware that they are under judgment of God RIGHT IN THEIR CHURCH where God's Elect "can see" and flee.

Matthew 24:15-16 KJV

[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:​

The only holy place on this side of the Cross is the CHURCH which Judaea REPRESENTS! Selah! That is why Jesus warned that only those "who readeth, let him understand" will be able to see it and understand what he need to do.



Indeed! Don't forget about the parable that Tares of the congregation is to be binded first! Being binded means God is gathering all professed christians together in his church (eg. "in the valley of decision" or "to a place called "Armageddon") where they will be forced to believe an LIE to be prepared to thrown into the Lake of Fire along with the unsaved Heathen of the world, when Christ returns. This is why God's congregation must be judged FIRST BEFORE the rest of the world when Christ returns.

1 Peter 4:17 KJV
[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?​

Sorry about the lengthy rant, but I am glad that you are starting to see things clearly. The judgment of the church (more specifically, the corporate part of the church - not Elect) comes first until the "hour" of Babylon the Great's judgment is finished. Then the last trump shall be sound and the rapture. We are very close to Christ's coming than we think since we now "understand" what Christ is doing with the church where MANY MANY professed Christians will deny God is judging them - just exactly the same with when Lot's sons in law mocked him about the warning. Sounds familiar?

 

[DaDad]

Ok

Well if it's OK, then here you go:

This Head-of-Gold was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center”[1]
[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35​

So if Babylon was the FIRST TRUE metropolis, and we're still using that same model, -- then what do you think "Mystery Babylon" might infer? -- WELL THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF COURSE!

Good job,
DaDad

 

[TribulationSigns]

Well if it's OK, then here you go:

This Head-of-Gold was “the first true metropolis in western history, a business as well as an administrative center”[1]
[1] John B. Christopher and Robert Lee Wolf, A History of Civilization, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, 1967, p. 35​

So if Babylon was the FIRST TRUE metropolis, and we're still using that same model, -- then what do you think "Mystery Babylon" might infer? -- WELL THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF COURSE!

Metropolis?! Seriously?! Where did you get that idea from? Not the Bible! You are coming up with theories and speculations based on what men wrote in their books instead OF THE BIBLE ITSELF! What you are doing is not sound biblical exegesis which is why you came up with SPECULATIONS without biblical validation! You make it up! Metropolis. Three Superpowers. United Nations with ten nations on security councils. Gee-whiz! NOthing of this comes from Bible!

Now, pay attention, WHO did Daniel actually prophesied against? Please consider wisely:

Daniel 2:36-38 KJV
[36] This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
[37] Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
[38] And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

Did King Nebezadaar rule over all men, beasts, and fowls in the world? Of course not! It was Satan who was given the kingdom after Adam and Eve sinned. Didn't God first make Adam the ruler of the beast of the field and fowls of the heaven in the first place? Look it up in the Bible yourself! Satan had a kingdom, power, strength and glory which is why He was the unchallenged ruler since the fall of Man... until Christ came! Listen to what Satan offered Christ:

Matthew 4:8-10 KJV
[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
[10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Luke 4:5-7 KJV
[5] And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
[6] And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
[7] If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.​

See? Satan said, all the power and glory of the kingdoms was "DELIVERED UNTO ME" By whom? God! It is because of Adam's disobedience at the garden of Eden, the authority of the kingdom was given to Satan over all men, beasts, and fowls! Therefore the head of Gold was referring to Satan's RULE and POWER and it has been for the whole old testament period until Christ came!

Of course, King Nebeazzadar and many people thought Daniel was talking about him but Daniel was referring to the spiritual ruler at that time.

 

[DaDad]

U.N. Security Council Expansion Is Not in the U.S. Interest
August 18, 2005
Authors: Nile Gardiner and Brett Schaefer

You'll also notice that the article you cited confirms what I found -- that there will be no Security Council expansion.

Strange, -- you said it didn't exist:

Unsurprisingly, 25 years later, there is no discussion regarding expanding the size of the permanent portion of the Security Council ...

​

... that there will be no Security Council expansion.

... you're a Prophet? I don't think so ...

... no Security Council expansion. Which invalidates your ten future kingdoms hypothesis.

The operational word is "yet".

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[jgr]

The operational word is "yet".

The word "yet" is nowhere to be seen.

It exists only in futurism's imagination.

 

[jgr]

Metropolis?! Seriously?! Where did you get that idea from? Not the Bible! You are coming up with theories and speculations based on what men wrote in their books instead OF THE BIBLE ITSELF! What you are doing is not sound biblical exegesis which is why you came up with SPECULATIONS without biblical validation! You make it up! Metropolis. Three Superpowers. United Nations with ten nations on security councils. Gee-whiz! NOthing of this comes from Bible!

Now, pay attention, WHO did Daniel actually prophesied against? Please consider wisely:

Daniel 2:36-38 KJV
[36] This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
[37] Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
[38] And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

Did King Nebezadaar rule over all men, beasts, and fowls in the world? Of course not! It was Satan who was given the kingdom after Adam and Eve sinned. Didn't God first make Adam the ruler of the beast of the field and fowls of the heaven in the first place? Look it up in the Bible yourself! Satan had a kingdom, power, strength and glory which is why He was the unchallenged ruler since the fall of Man... until Christ came! Listen to what Satan offered Christ:

Matthew 4:8-10 KJV
[8] Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[9] And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
[10] Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Luke 4:5-7 KJV
[5] And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
[6] And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
[7] If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.​

See? Satan said, all the power and glory of the kingdoms was "DELIVERED UNTO ME" By whom? God! It is because of Adam's disobedience at the garden of Eden, the authority of the kingdom was given to Satan over all men, beasts, and fowls! Therefore the head of Gold was referring to Satan's RULE and POWER and it has been for the whole old testament period until Christ came!

Of course, King Nebeazzadar and many people thought Daniel was talking about him but Daniel was referring to the spiritual ruler at that time.

Daniel 2
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

If verses 36-38 are addressed to Satan, verse 39 is clearly addressed to Nebuchadnezzar.

But there is nothing to suggest that the "thou's" and "thee's" in verses 36-38 are any different from those in verse 39.

 

[FatalHeart]

No, just responding to an accusation on GOD's Character. And given the choice, I'll trust GOD.
Thanks,
DaDad

Well, I apologise if you think I was accusing God. I'm at a loss to see where the confusion lies. XD I was merely trying to warn about the ensuing obsession and godless arguing that can arise by the conversation about prophecy, and just giving a single of my observances. My apologies if I was unkind as you don't deserve that type of treatment. Enjoy your day.

 

[iamlamad]

And just so we know, the fifth has fallen from pre-eminence, and the sixth "is" when it attacks Israel (per Ezekiel 38 & 39), which should happen starting shortly (possibly within a month), and taking several months to completion.

1. Gold, Babylonian -- 1 of 5 has fallen
2. Silver, Medo/Persian -- 2 of 5 has fallen
3. Bronze, Grecian -- 3 of 5 has fallen
4. Iron, Roman -- 4 of 5 has fallen
-- Clay, "divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.-- 5 of 5 has fallen, from pre-eminence
-- 6. Bear, Russia -- "is" when it attacks Israel
-- 7. Leopard (actually a Tiger), China -- "shall remain a little while"
-- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations -- "eighth which was and is not", and has NO army, NO populous, and NO geography
9. Millennial Kingdom
10. New Jerusalem​

Thanks,
DaDad

Rev. 17:16
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

These are ten major nations of the world (Probably representative of many) that will "throw in" with the Beast for the last hour, to wipe Israel off the map forever. It will be the battle of Armageddon. It will be well on the way when Jesus suddenly appears on the scene. What is left of the US may well be one of them.

Daniel 7:20
And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

This will be a DIFFERENT ten nations, probably Islamic and probably in the Middle East, of who the Beast will take out three, leaving seven, and he, the Antichrist Beast, will become the 8th king.

 

[DaDad]

Well, I apologise if you think I was accusing God. I'm at a loss to see where the confusion lies. XD I was merely trying to warn about the ensuing obsession and godless arguing that can arise by the conversation about prophecy, and just giving a single of my observances. My apologies if I was unkind as you don't deserve that type of treatment. Enjoy your day.

Hey FH,
Thanks for the note back, -- it's all good!
Satan has sent many false teachers and false doctrines in this Forum to confuse, disrupt, and dis-inform. I merely attempt to provide the TRUTH to the few Christians there may be. And per my perspective I don't see any ambiguities. Everything is clearly presented and clearly explainable, with a little "mastication".

Take for example something as simple as the Image of Metals in Daniel 2. Virtually EVERYONE teaches a 4a/4b premise:

1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4.a. Iron, Rome
4.b. Clay, Revived Rome
​

But the Scriptures present a true FIFTH empire :

2:41 And as you saw the feet and toes partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom

​

Furthermore 2:45 substantiates this FIFTH empire by separating the Iron from the Clay by the insertion of the Bronze:

2:45 ... the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold. = 4,3,5,2,1 = FIVE
​

The only question is: Why is there a residue of Iron in the Feet of Clay?!? For which we should readily perceive is our government. Because Rome was never conquered, the disparate fifedoms, regions, communities, and villages had no new government model to turn to, so they kept the Senatus Populusque Romanus, “Senate and the Roman People,” which we still have today. Thus the residue of Iron in the Feet of Clay.​

So I don't find confusion, supposition, vaguarity, uncertainty, or any other ambiguities. -- GOD is not the author of confusion, and HE WANTS us to receive Prophecy as an anticipation/precaution for future events, and confidence for HIS presence in HIS creation.

With Best Regards,
DaDad

​

 

[DaDad]

Rev. 17:16 And the ten horns ...
Daniel 7:20 And of the ten horns ...

This will be a DIFFERENT ten nations, ...

That's a leap.
DaDad

 

[TribulationSigns]

Daniel 2
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

If verses 36-38 are addressed to Satan, verse 39 is clearly addressed to Nebuchadnezzar.

But there is nothing to suggest that the "thou's" and "thee's" in verses 36-38 are any different from those in verse 39.

These people were exalted in their own eyes and they forgot their God, and because of this, God will be unto them as a lion, a leopard, and bear, and a wild beast.

Daniel 7:2-7
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

These animals of Daniel chapter 7, as well as the image from Daniel chapter 2, represent dominion and rulership given by God over unsaved mass (sea) to be used for God’s own purposes. Just as the kingdom was given to King Nebuchadnezzar as described in Daniel 2:38 so each of these animals represents the dominion and rulership God gives AS A TYPE! As believers, our concern should not be on the kingdoms of this world. For example, Babylonian, Persian, Grecian, Roman. Rather, our focus should be on Christ who is far above all principality and power.

Ephesians 1:19
19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

For these dominions, and all dominions belong to Christ. All these things were created by him and for him.

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Daniel 7:12-14
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 2:44
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

We can rest in Christ’s finished work at the cross and rejoice in his victory for our souls. He took on our judgment of hell (Isaiah 53:12) and secured the keys (Rev. 1:18) and has translated each of his own into his Kingdom (Col. 1:13). It was this victory which brought in the Kingdom of God as described in Daniel chapter 2 and chapter 7.

Colossians 2:14-15
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Christ wins!! He has the everlasting dominion! He has the Kingdom which shall not be destroyed. He desires to be our help and our Saviour (Hosea 13). He smote the image! To him be the glory!

2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I merely attempt to provide the TRUTH to the few Christians there may be. And per my perspective I don't see any ambiguities. Everything is clearly presented and clearly explainable, with a little "mastication".

Take for example something as simple as the Image of Metals in Daniel 2. Virtually EVERYONE teaches a 4a/4b premise:

1. Gold, Babylon
2. Silver, Medo/Persia
3. Bronze, Greece
4.a. Iron, Rome
4.b. Clay, Revived Rome​

​

Everyone?

No, what MANY "professing Christians" believe is irrelevant! The words which man's wisdom teaches "the many" concerning eschatology is as foolishness to God! The natural man, as a beast, the carnal man living by the flesh, the wicked man is without sound judgment and doesn't understand the Spiritual.

1st Corinthians 2:13-16

• "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
• But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
• But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
• For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

I'm sure you've heard those verses before, but have you REALLY "heard" those verses before? The Spiritual man judgeth by that Spirit, but the natural man is like a beast, because he is evil and without the image of God, he is without sound judgment. That most believe something does not make something sound. Interpretation is not by committee, it's by the sound exegesis of God's word compared diligently "with" God's Word. I have warned you before!

And no, they cannot be right in this instance. Like I said, God is not giving us a "literal" history lesson about Greece and Persia, but a "spiritual" history lesson about a far more sinister spiritual rule. Christ is the prince of peace, tell what kingdom does He rule? Likewise, Satan is the Prince of this world, thus what kingdom does he rule? Their rules are not from physical nations or empires, but from spiritual principalities that these animals/beasts are TYPE OF! That's what you don't understand! Even though God has stated it in many diverse ways again and again and again. You still eschew the Spiritual nature of what God is speaking about.

Ephesians 6:12

• "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Whether we like it or not, God is here telling us that our battle is not against the power of empires, it's not even physical, it's not political, it's not against nations, it's against a "spiritual principality, a spiritual power and spiritual wickedness." Everyone reads these things but few take it to heart.

Colossians 2:14-15

• "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
• And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it."

Have you really THOUGHT that these principalities and powers that Christ spoiled were not Rome, it wasn't Greece or Persia! But it was spiritual "Egypt" and spiritual principalities and rulers of the darkness of this world. The Christian must take his mind off the nations of this world, secular history, world news and think on a nation from above and just how it is being attacked. Take our eyes off this world and put them on Christ!

Selah!

So I don't find confusion, supposition, vaguarity, uncertainty, or any other ambiguities. -- GOD is not the author of confusion, and HE WANTS us to receive Prophecy as an anticipation/precaution for future events, and confidence for HIS presence in HIS creation.

Really? Like I said, God is not giving us a history lesson with physical nations or empires so He wanted us to watch out for a new empire out of these nations in the future. That was not what God is saying here.

Satan is thee beast, RULING THROUGH MEN, who are as BEASTS. Selah! Just as Satan is thee antichrist, RULING IN MANY ANTICHRISTS, which are men! There are a principle here that you are missing in your misinterpretation of Scripture. Why does God called wicked men serpents, and calls Satan the serpents? Why is Christ called the Star and we, His servants, called stars? The point I am making is that just because you cannot recognize Satan as the beast, and natural or carnal man as a beast, doesn't mean God doesn't.

1 Corinthians 15:32 KJV
[32] If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.​

Did Paul physically wrestled with a bear, spar with a lion or tangle with a leopard? No, his fight was WITH MEN who were "as beasts" in that they without moral values, judgment, knowledge or wisdom, like I am dealing with some people here!

Now, if I might digress for a minute. What separates man from the dumb beasts of the field is his reasoning and intelligence. A man was created in the image or likeness of God so that (unlike dumb beasts) man was instilled with a certain intellect, reason and the inherent knowledge of His creator. Beasts have no reasoning, they have no knowledge, and they are not sensible.

God often contrasts man with the beast and even labels man a beast himself when he acts foolishly or without reasoning, or in a ravenous or vicious way. God even goes so far as to speak of man as a beast when illustrating man as unknowledgeable or simple (stupid, if you will). Remember what God did with King Nebedzaddar? So the symbolism of a beast I believe is to illustrate man under influence of Satan acting without reason or knowledge, or when lacking in wisdom and understanding, as one acting foolishly. For example:

Psalms 73:22

• "So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee."

David compared himself as a beast to God because He was a fool! Apparently, God thinks the foolish and ignorant man "IS" as a beast.

Now when we read in Daniel 7 about the beasts, who do you think God is really talking about here? The beast is a BODY of Satan, making up MEN, WOMEN, and CHILDREN without spirit of Christ attacking God's Elect all the time. God was using the physical empires and national Israel as a type to show a spiritual realities. That is who we are fighting with today! Not European nations.

 

[jgr]

These people were exalted in their own eyes and they forgot their God, and because of this, God will be unto them as a lion, a leopard, and bear, and a wild beast.

Daniel 7:2-7
2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.
5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

These animals of Daniel chapter 7, as well as the image from Daniel chapter 2, represent dominion and rulership given by God over unsaved mass (sea) to be used for God’s own purposes. Just as the kingdom was given to King Nebuchadnezzar as described in Daniel 2:38 so each of these animals represents the dominion and rulership God gives AS A TYPE! As believers, our concern should not be on the kingdoms of this world. For example, Babylonian, Persian, Grecian, Roman. Rather, our focus should be on Christ who is far above all principality and power.

Ephesians 1:19
19 And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],
21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

For these dominions, and all dominions belong to Christ. All these things were created by him and for him.

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Daniel 7:12-14
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 2:44
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, [but] it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

We can rest in Christ’s finished work at the cross and rejoice in his victory for our souls. He took on our judgment of hell (Isaiah 53:12) and secured the keys (Rev. 1:18) and has translated each of his own into his Kingdom (Col. 1:13). It was this victory which brought in the Kingdom of God as described in Daniel chapter 2 and chapter 7.

Colossians 2:14-15
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Christ wins!! He has the everlasting dominion! He has the Kingdom which shall not be destroyed. He desires to be our help and our Saviour (Hosea 13). He smote the image! To him be the glory!

2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever.

I concur with all of the Scripture you've cited. But you haven't explained how Daniel 2:36-38 can be referring to Satan while Daniel 2:39 is referring to Nebuchadnezzar.

Nebuchadnezzar does in numerous respects typify Satan. But the evidence in Daniel 2:36-38, and throughout the chapter, is that Daniel is directly addressing Nebuchadnezzar, not Satan.

This doesn't dilute the prophetic messages. The descriptions of the historical world kingdoms climax in the prophecy of the greatest Kingdom of all in Daniel 2:44, the Everlasting Kingdom which Christ established at His first coming.

Nebuchadnezzar demonstrates his full recognition and understanding of Daniel's prophetic messages, in the final verses of the chapter.

 

[Douggg]

Now when we read in Daniel 7 about the beasts, who do you think God is really talking about here?

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

The Kings are: Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Alexander, the end times Julio-Claudian king of the Roman Empire.

And the beasts are also 4 kingdoms - which those 4 kings are the most notable over each of those 4 kingdoms.

23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
_____________________________________________________________________
The beast as a Kingdom (the fourth Kingdom) is in Revelation 13. And the same beast as a King is the most notable King of that fourth Kingdom in Revelation 13

 

[TribulationSigns]

I concur with all of the Scripture you've cited. But you haven't explained how Daniel 2:36-38 can be referring to Satan while Daniel 2:39 is referring to Nebuchadnezzar.

Nebuchadnezzar does in numerous respects typify Satan. But the evidence in Daniel 2:36-38, and throughout the chapter, is that Daniel is directly addressing Nebuchadnezzar, not Satan.

This doesn't dilute the prophetic messages. The descriptions of the historical world kingdoms climax in the prophecy of the greatest Kingdom of all in Daniel 2:44, the Everlasting Kingdom which Christ established at His first coming.

Nebuchadnezzar demonstrates his full recognition and understanding of Daniel's prophetic messages, in the final verses of the chapter.

It is because you do not accept the fact that Daniel was not really talking about King Nebuchadnezzar but his spiritual ruler - the principality and power of Satan possessed at that time. The metals represented Satan's kingdom and power throughout time opposing Christ's kingdom. And at the time of the end, Satan's iron power working with the pottery clay which representing men. This is speaking of Satan working through the false prophets and christs) in the time of the end. Not about political nations or empires.