Is the Beast in Rev 17 is all Rome ?

[Berean Tim]

The Angel says the heads are 7 hillswhere the Woman sits. The word "Hills" makes the link or leap to Rome. The KJV and NIV translate the word as hills. Most others use mountains. If the translators were consistent we would be saying the "Hill of Olives" " Hill Zion". The word is used 64 times (Strong's 3735) , 62 times translated mount or mountain. Daniel in chapter 7 has 4 beast with a total of 7 heads with the final beast having 10 horns. They are 4 different kingdoms.



How then is all the heads on the 7 headed beast in REV 17 all Rome ?

 

[Stringfellow_Hawke]

7 different emperors maybe?

 

[DaDad]

How then is all the heads on the 7 headed beast in REV 17 all Rome ?

They ain't and the never were. The commentators couldn't solve the "riddle" so the gave us their best "lie".

“[The] five of whom are fallen [presumes John’s work to be written in] Vespasian’s reign. Titus is to come, but only to last for a short time. Perhaps the writer knew of the hopeless condition of Titus’ health. He is therefore either using a literary convention, and assuming an earlier date than is the fact to give his words the force of a prophecy concerning Titus, or, more likely, his is using here material written in Vespasian’s reign which partly suits his purpose and partly not; for there are very good reasons for thinking that this book was written, not in Vespasian’s reign, but in Domitian’s.”[1]

[1] Eiselen, Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929, p. 1392​

Have you considered Daniel 2:45? If so, then you should arrive to:

1. Gold, Babylonian
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4. Iron, Roman
-- Clay, "divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
-- 6. Bear, Russia
-- 7. Leopard (actually a Tiger), China
-- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations
9. Millennial Kingdom
10. New Jerusalem

Please note that "10" is the number of "completion"
​

Thus the "seven mountains"/"seven kings" are the seven world empires, -- the first four were consecutive, and the next three concurrent.

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[DaDad]

7 different emperors maybe?

... don't forget Galba and Otho ...

 

[Berean Tim]

7 different emperors maybe?

There's nothing that says the seven kings are Roman Emperors. The word translated "hills" makes that leap. I think the 6th head the one "who is" is most probably an Emperor of Rome. Please note it's the 8th King who rises from the abyss and goes to destruction, again quoting Daniel of the AntiChrist.

 

[Berean Tim]

They ain't and the never were. The commentators couldn't solve the "riddle" so the gave us their best "lie".

“[The] five of whom are fallen [presumes John’s work to be written in] Vespasian’s reign. Titus is to come, but only to last for a short time. Perhaps the writer knew of the hopeless condition of Titus’ health. He is therefore either using a literary convention, and assuming an earlier date than is the fact to give his words the force of a prophecy concerning Titus, or, more likely, his is using here material written in Vespasian’s reign which partly suits his purpose and partly not; for there are very good reasons for thinking that this book was written, not in Vespasian’s reign, but in Domitian’s.”[1]

[1] Eiselen, Frederick, Edwin Lewis, & David Downey, The Abingdon Bible Commentary, Abingdon Press, NY, 1929, p. 1392​

Have you considered Daniel 2:45? If so, then you should arrive to:

1. Gold, Babylonian
2. Silver, Medo/Persian
3. Bronze, Grecian
4. Iron, Roman
-- Clay, "divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.
-- 6. Bear, Russia
-- 7. Leopard (actually a Tiger), China
-- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations
9. Millennial Kingdom
10. New Jerusalem

Please note that "10" is the number of "completion"
​

Thus the "seven mountains"/"seven kings" are the seven world empires, -- the first four were consecutive, and the next three concurrent.

Thanks,
DaDad

Interesting , I'm with you the seven heads being world empires but I'm still considering the ten horns. As of now I'm leaning toward a ten nation confederation in the Middle East. In Daniel 8 after Alexander's kingdom is divided into four horns the little horn grows from one of them. None of those nations were in the west.
Thanks for your input

 

[Petros2015]

Just FYI regarding cities set on 7 hills...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_claimed_to_be_built_on_seven_hills

 

[Stringfellow_Hawke]

There's nothing that says the seven kings are Roman Emperors. The word translated "hills" makes that leap. I think the 6th head the one "who is" is most probably an Emperor of Rome. Please note it's the 8th King who rises from the abyss and goes to destruction, again quoting Daniel of the AntiChrist.

Was just a thought.

 

[Berean Tim]

Just FYI regarding cities set on 7 hills...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_claimed_to_be_built_on_seven_hills

Yes, Rome is known as the City of or on seven hills. But the word is correctly translated as mountains. My best guess is the KJ translators had Rome on their minds so used the word "Hills".
Thanks for your input

 

[DaDad]

Interesting , I'm with you the seven heads being world empires but I'm still considering the ten horns. As of now I'm leaning toward a ten nation confederation in the Middle East. In Daniel 8 after Alexander's kingdom is divided into four horns the little horn grows from one of them. None of those nations were in the west.
Thanks for your input

Are you aware of the FIVE Permanent Membership on the Security Council, and the FIVE NOMINATED to Permanent Membership on the Security Council?

Hmmmmm, 5 + 5. Could that be the 10?
Thanks,
DaDad

 

[DaDad]

...My best guess is the KJ translators had Rome on their minds so used the word "Hills".

Good Call. The translators often used diction which they felt matched the interpretation, -- thus no longer translators, but now commentators.

Daniel 9 is a perfect example where they summed the seven with the sixty-two to arrive at a "sixty-nine" and achieve a "Jesus" fulfillment, which is neither Scriptural nor Historical. But if you can find a precedent where ~a pair of shoes cost seven and sixty-two dollars, plus tax~, then I stand corrected.

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[Berean Tim]

Are you aware of the FIVE Permanent Membership on the Security Council, and the FIVE NOMINATED to Permanent Membership on the Security Council?

Hmmmmm, 5 + 5. Could that be the 10?
Thanks,
DaDad

Possibly, Remember the Ten have no power until they are given it by the Beast They obviously are powerful men but receive "ruling power " during the time of the AntiChrist's rule. IMO

 

[tranquil]

There's nothing that says the seven kings are Roman Emperors. The word translated "hills" makes that leap. I think the 6th head the one "who is" is most probably an Emperor of Rome. Please note it's the 8th King who rises from the abyss and goes to destruction, again quoting Daniel of the AntiChrist.

I would definitely agree the 6th head is Rome, the 'one who is' (and will be until the the 7th head replaces it), but how do you arrive at the conclusion that the 8th head is the one who rises from the abyss?

As to the OP, the woman is a separate entity from the 7 headed beast from the sea. One could possibly interpret this to mean that she is the '8th head'.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Jerusalem also was known to be situated on seven hills.

Its best to remember,the beast did exist before john wrote revelation but did not exist when he wrote it.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/17-8.htm

 

[Stringfellow_Hawke]

Jerusalem also was known to be situated on seven hills.

Its best to remember,the beast did exist before john wrote revelation but did not exist when he wrote it.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/17-8.htm

Once was, now is not. Yet is.

 

[Berean Tim]

I would definitely agree the 6th head is Rome, the 'one who is' (and will be until the the 7th head replaces it), but how do you arrive at the conclusion that the 8th head is the one who rises from the abyss?

As to the OP, the woman is a separate entity from the 7 headed beast from the sea. One could possibly interpret this to mean that she is the '8th head'.

Rev 17 verse 8 "The Beast you saw was and is not is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction" Verse 11 " The Beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven and goes to destruction" The word "one" is not in the text but added. Should read IMO "is of the seven". We can all wonder and speculate as to what that means. Some translations say "belongs to the seven"
Anyway this is where I got it from.
Thanks

 

[DaDad]

Possibly, Remember the Ten have no power until they are given it by the Beast They obviously are powerful men but receive "ruling power " during the time of the AntiChrist's rule. IMO

You are aware that the 5 + 5 Security Council Membership are NATIONS?

1. U.S.
2. U.K.
3. France
4. Russia
5. China
6. Germany
7. Japan
8. Brazil
9. Nigeria
10. India

Furthermore, where the THREE Superpowers give their sovereignty to the U.N., after the U.N. is judged the THREE Superpowers will continue for "a season and a time".

DaDad

 

[shilohsfoal]

Rev 17 verse 8 "The Beast you saw was and is not is about to come up from the abyss and go to destruction" Verse 11 " The Beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven and goes to destruction" The word "one" is not in the text but added. Should read IMO "is of the seven". We can all wonder and speculate as to what that means. Some translations say "belongs to the seven"
Anyway this is where I got it from.
Thanks

Of the seven,is how i understand it.
The kingdom of israel once was and was not when john penned the verse.It is yet again.
Im sure youcan name six kingdoms which reigned over the nation of israel.
Can you name the seventh kingdom to,reign over the nation of israel?

Hint-it continued a short space and then was devided.

 

[DaDad]

...

And just so we know, the fifth has fallen from pre-eminence, and the sixth "is" when it attacks Israel (per Ezekiel 38 & 39), which should happen starting shortly (possibly within a month), and taking several months to completion.

1. Gold, Babylonian -- 1 of 5 has fallen
2. Silver, Medo/Persian -- 2 of 5 has fallen
3. Bronze, Grecian -- 3 of 5 has fallen
4. Iron, Roman -- 4 of 5 has fallen
-- Clay, "divided"
-- 5. Lion/Eagle, U.K./U.S.-- 5 of 5 has fallen, from pre-eminence
-- 6. Bear, Russia -- "is" when it attacks Israel
-- 7. Leopard (actually a Tiger), China -- "shall remain a little while"
-- 8. "Dreadful", United Nations -- "eighth which was and is not", and has NO army, NO populous, and NO geography
9. Millennial Kingdom
10. New Jerusalem​

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[Douggg]

There's nothing that says the seven kings are Roman Emperors. The word translated "hills" makes that leap. I think the 6th head the one "who is" is most probably an Emperor of Rome. Please note it's the 8th King who rises from the abyss and goes to destruction, again quoting Daniel of the AntiChrist.

Tim, there are three fundamental considerations which I will mention - that if you grab hold of these will make a big difference in your eschatology growth.

1. The prophecies are all built around the 7 year period of Daniel 9:27.

2. The person (I don't know his name) will be on a track to become the King of Israel (illegitimate) - the Antichrist.

3. The person will be on another track to become the King of Rome - the little horn, the 7th king. Then later, after a 3 plus year stint as the Antichrist, he becomes the 8th King of Rome - the beast.

___________________________________________________________________________

King of Rome
King of Israel

Those two concepts are critical to recognize and see the person in two different capacities - at different times on our end times timeline.

Note that the person as the King of Israel, sandwiched between being the King of Rome. This is critical to understand.

King of Rome - the 7th Julio-Claudian king - the little horn (right before the 7 years begin)
King of Israel - for a 3 plus year stint - the Antichrist. (begins the 7 years)
King of Rome - the 8th Julio-Claudian king - the beast. (basically the second half of the 7 years)

In most of Revelation, it focuses on the person as the King of Rome. The only place in Revelation, the person is seen as the Antichrist, King of Israel, is as the rider on the white horse in Revelation 6, who is given the crown, becoming the King of Israel (illegitimate) at the beginning of the 7 years.
_____________________________________________________________________________

The Juiio-Claudian kings were a family - the Caesar family. They were tied together as a family.

They were...

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero

end times - the 7 years.
7. The little horn * (right before the 7 years begin)
8. The beast (* same person extended 42 months)

Revelation 17:10
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.