Futurist Only Rev 12 & Armageddon

tranquil

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When the 'antichrist', the Daniel 7 Little Horn (Zechariah's worthless shepherd) gets his mortal head wound and is resurrected, he becomes the enemy of Judah by causing a rift and civil war between Judah and Israel (he is attacking the faithful saints) . This civil war is representing the separation of the faithful from the unfaithful (10 horns) who will worship him. The 10 horns of the Daniel 7 4th Beast represent the latent faction of unfaithful (10 tribe) 'Israel' who will worship the 'antichrist' at the breaking of the covenant (at the 7th Trumpet when the dragon has 10 horns and 10 crowns). The 'sign of the son of man in heaven' and Revelation 12 sign is God's assurance that the apostate (who are killing the faithful) will be speedily destroyed (before a child knows how to say, 'Daddy' or 'Mommy').

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’​
30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.​

This 'sign of the Son of Man' is this 'great sign' in Revelation 12 that is occurring after the 'tribulation of those days' (after the abomination of desolation, the great tribulation in Revelation 9:13-21). The sun darkening, the moon not giving light, and stars falling from the heavens are the events of the bowls of wrath (specifically, Revelation 16:10 and Revelation 16:21) (not the events of the 6th Seal).

Revelation 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2 She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems.​

Why does the woman have 12 crowns? She represents 'spiritual Jerusalem' (Galatians 4:26) that has not come down to earth yet (which will occur shortly after the 7th Trumpet begins). She symbolically rules the 12 tribes of Israel that we saw mentioned in Revelation 7. This is in contrast to the dragon who has 10 horns and 7 crowns. The 10 horns specifically come from the Daniel 7 4th Beast and if you count all the heads in Daniel 7's four beasts you get 7 heads. The dragon will have 10 horns and 10 crowns at Revelation 13:3 when the Daniel 7 Little Horn (the 'antichrist') gets his mortal head wound and comes back to life (at the 7th Trumpet).

Why does the dragon have 10 horns and 7 crowns in Revelation 12:3 and then have 10 crowns and 10 crowns in Revelation 13:1?

The 10 horns represents spiritually apostate Israel that will rebel against Judah and worship the head wounded 'antichrist' at the point in time where he resurrects from his mortal head wound (when the 10 horns will have 10 crowns). This is why the Daniel 7 4th beast is the remnant of Israel and Judah - once they are gathered to the Daniel 7 Little Horn (the 'antichrist'), there is a latent portion that will choose to break away from the union of Judah and Israel when the 'antichrist' is resurrected after his head wound. Just like the 10 tribes of Israel broke away in a civil war against Judah in ancient times, there will be a new civil war whereby the 'antichrist' will break the union of these two.

Let's illustrate this with the idea of the 'worthless shepherd', the 'antichrist' (the Daniel 7 Little Horn, the king of Babylon, 'Lucifer', king of Tyre) for a moment.

Zech 11:14Then I broke my second staff Union, annulling the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.​
15Then the Lord said to me, “Take once more the equipment of a foolish shepherd. 16For behold, I am raising up in the land a shepherd who does not care for those being destroyed, or seek the young or heal the maimed or nourish the healthy, but devours the flesh of the fat ones, tearing off even their hoofs.​
17Woe to my worthless shepherd, who deserts the flock! May the sword strike his arm and his right eye! Let his arm be wholly withered, his right eye utterly blinded!”

Zech 13:7“Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, against the man who stands next to me,” declares the Lord of hosts. “Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered; I will turn my hand against the little ones. 8In the whole land, declares the Lord, two thirds shall be cut off and perish, and one third shall be left alive.​

The phrases, 'worthless shepherd' and 'deserts the flock', get different translations such as 'idol shepherd' and 'apostatizes the flock', but it is describing the same idea: this shepherd, 'the one who stands next to God', is going to split Judah and Israel - with one faction going to remain faithful and the other will become unfaithful and worship the shepherd that resurrected from his mortal head wound that occurs when the sword strikes his right eye and arm. This is why 'Lucifer' (the 'antichrist'), the king of Babylon is said to 'kill his own people' - the people he was shepherding.

With this in mind, let's continue with the sign of Revelation 12 which is the same sign in heaven from Isaiah 7:

Isaiah 7:11 “Ask for a sign from the LORD your God, whether from the depths of Sheol or the heights of heaven.” 12 But Ahaz replied, “I will not ask; I will not test the LORD.” 13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, O house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God as well? 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15 By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16 For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.​

17 The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since the day Ephraim separated from Judah—He will bring the king of Assyria.” 18 On that day the LORD will whistle to the flies at the farthest streams of the Nile and to the bees in the land of Assyria. 19 And they will all come and settle in the steep ravines and clefts of the rocks, in all the thornbushes and watering holes. 20 On that day the Lord will use a razor hired from beyond the Euphrates—the king of Assyria—to shave your head and the hair of your legs, and to remove your beard as well. 21 On that day a man will raise a young cow and two sheep, 22 and from the abundance of milk they give, he will eat curds; for all who remain in the land will eat curds and honey.​
In Isaiah 7 here, 'before the child knows good from bad' Israel (10 tribe Israel) and Syria will be destroyed by the Assyrian. It is the same 'sign' as this in Isaiah 8:

Isaiah 8:3 And I had relations with the prophetess, and she conceived and gave birth to a son. The LORD said to me, “Name him Maher-shalal-hash-baz [Spoil quickly, plunder speedily]. 4 For before the boy knows how to cry ‘Father’ or ‘Mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the plunder of Samaria will be carried off by the king of Assyria.”

Because the timing of when a child knows enough to choose good over evil is a bit more obscure than when a child knows how to speak Daddy or Mommy, we can focus on the latter which is around a year to 18 months. Keep this time-frame in mind as we will return to it shortly.

This destruction of Israel (which is to say 10 tribe Ephraim/ the plunder of the land of Samaria) (the 10 horns/ 10 kings of the beast) by Assyria is this from Hosea 1

3 So Hosea went and married Gomer daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son.​
4 Then the LORD said to Hosea, “Name him Jezreel, for soon I will bring the bloodshed of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and I will put an end to the kingdom of Israel. 5 And on that day I will break the bow of Israel in the Valley of Jezreel ‘[Jezreel’ means ‘God scatters’].”​
6 Gomer again conceived and gave birth to a daughter, and the LORD said to Hosea, “Name her Lo-ruhamah, for I will no longer have compassion on the house of Israel, that I should ever forgive them. 7 Yet I will have compassion on the house of Judah, and I will save them—not by bow or sword or war, not by horses and cavalry, but by the LORD their God.”​
8 After she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, Gomer conceived and gave birth to a son. 9 And the LORD said, “Name him Lo-ammi, for you are not My people, and I am not your God.​
10 Yet the number of the Israelites will be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or counted. And it will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ 11 Then the people of Judah and of Israel will be gathered together, and they will appoint for themselves one leader, and will go up out of the land. For great will be the day of Jezreel.​

The valley of Jezreel is where the ancient city of Megiddo was located. This Megiddo is the basis for the war occurring at Revelation 16:16, at the 6th Bowl, ‘Armageddon.’ Har-Megiddo (‘Armageddon’) would mean hill of Megiddo which overlooks the valley of Jezreel.

You also get a reference to the 'sand of the sea' as in Revelation 12:17 (which is sometimes removed in various translations). One portion is gathered to the 'antichrist' for Armageddon, and another is gathered to Jesus Christ (after being 'scattered').

Judah and Israel are attacked by Assyria. Israel (the unfaithful 10 horns) is destroyed by Assyria, but Judah is not. When Judah and Israel appoint one leader, then the Assyrian will be destroyed.

Micah 5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are little among the clans of Judah, out of you will come forth for Me One to be ruler over Israel - One whose origins are of old, from the days of eternity. 3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned until she who is in labor has given birth; then the rest of His brothers will return to the children of Israel. 4 He will stand and shepherd His flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majestic name of the LORD His God. And they will dwell securely, for then His greatness will extend to the ends of the earth. 5 And He will be our peace when Assyria invades our land and tramples our citadels. We will raise against it seven shepherds, even eight leaders of men. 6 And they will rule the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod with the blade drawn. So He will deliver us when Assyria invades our land and marches into our borders. 7 Then the remnant of Jacob will be in the midst of many peoples like dew from the LORD, like showers on the grass, which do not wait for man or linger for mankind. 8 Then the remnant of Jacob will be among the nations, in the midst of many peoples, like a lion among the beasts of the forest, like a young lion among flocks of sheep, which tramples and tears as it passes through, with no one to rescue them. 9 Your hand will be lifted over your foes, and all your enemies will be cut off.​

If the 'one leader' that they are joined to is the 'antichrist' (the Daniel 7 Little Horn, the 'worthless shepherd'), then this version of Israel (apostate Israel) becomes the enemy of faithful 'Judah'.

If the 'one leader' that they are gathered and joined to is Jesus Christ, then this version of Israel (faithful saints) will see the fulfillment of the 'sign of the son of man in heaven'. God will destroy 'Israel' (the beast from the sea and 'antichrist') and save 'Judah'.

Let’s go back to Isaiah 7 & 8, the plundering of Israel and Syria which was said to take place within a year and a half (within 18 months) (before a child can speak ‘Daddy’ or ‘Mommy’). This is the time-frame of the 'season and a time' of Daniel 7:11-12.

11 “I looked then because of the sound of the great words that the horn was speaking. And as I looked, the beast was killed, and its body destroyed and given over to be burned with fire. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.​

The Daniel 7 4th Beast is burned (same as the burning of the harlot of Babylon in Revelation 17:16-17), and then the rest of the beasts (the Leopard, Bear, and Lion) are given an extension of life for a ‘season and a time’ ( ~ 16 months, aka literally 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24).

Revelation 13’s beast from the sea is this ‘rest of the beasts’ that were given an extension: Rev 13:2 And the beast that I saw was like a leopard; its feet were like a bear’s, and its mouth was like a lion’s mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority.

When the Daniel 7 Little Horn (Zechariah's worthless shepherd) is resurrected, he becomes the enemy of Judah (he is attacking the faithful saints) by causing a civil war between Judah and Israel, representing the faithful and unfaithful (10 horns) who will worship him. The 'sign of the son of man in heaven' is God's assurance that the apostate (who are killing the faithful) will be speedily destroyed (before a child knows how to say, 'Daddy' or 'Mommy').
 

d taylor

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Don't you have it the other way around?
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No, the beast from the earth is the gentile king who will rule the world. This person is also known as Daniels king of the north and Paul's man of sin. He is the one who sets himself up in the temple of God claiming to be God and honoring his god, satan. Who gives the king his power over all the kingdoms of the earth. Jesus rejected this offer from satan, but this king will accept satan's offer and will rule for a short time over the whole earth.


Daniel
“Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.

Paul
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Revelation
Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.
So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months. Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
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oikonomia

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No, the beast from the earth is the gentile king who will rule the world. This person is also known as Daniels king of the north and Paul's man of sin. He is the one who sets himself up in the temple of God claiming to be God and honoring his god, satan. Who gives the king his power over all the kingdoms of the earth. Jesus rejected this offer from satan, but this king will accept satan's offer and will rule for a short time over the whole earth.
I do not know that much about the king of the North. But you have the two beasts (men) reversed.

Daniel
“Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.
That is all well and good. However, it in Revelation it is the beast out of the sea which has the miraculous healing from assasination.
By the way, if in our talk I seem to gravitate more towards speaking of Christ who overcomes both these evil beast, do be understanding.
That is more important to believers for sure.

Paul
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
That too is all well and good. But he is speaking of the beast out of the sea.
Revelation
Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.
Okay. And where did John see this beast arise from? The sea is where he saw him arise from.
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea,
And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.
And where did this wounded and healed beast come from? He came up from the sea.
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea,

So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast;
Right, the beast rising up out of the sea.
and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”
That is of course referring to the one Satan summoned up from the sea.

And he [the dragon, Satan] stood on the sand of the sea. (Rev. 12:18)
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, (Rev. 13:1)

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies,
And "he" being a beast rising up out of the sea,
and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
Again, the "he" being the one rising up out of the sea,
But don't worry. Jesus is going to get him!
Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.
And "he" is the beast John saw - a beast rising up out of the sea,
It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
You get my point that this guy is the beast coming up out of the sea by Satan's operation.

Now we see in addition ANOTHER beast coming up out of the earth.

And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke like a dragon. (Rev. 13:11)


So we have "another beast" from the earth and the "first beast" up from the sea.

And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his sight, and he causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose death stroke was healed. (v.12)

Both of these beasts are exeedingly evil. But the details Paul describes should pertain to the first beast, the Antichrist.

. . . the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,

Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he sits in the temple of God, setting himself forth, saying that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:3b,4)

You should consider the "another beast" as the assistant serving faithfully all the purposes of the first beast.
That is in the team of beasts absolutely dedicated to Satan, the first beast coming up from the sea is served by the "another beast"
coming up out of the earth.

The first beast is of the Gentile world - signified by the sea.
The second beast "another beast" is of the land of Israel, a Jewish false prophet.
 
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d taylor

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I do not know that much about the king of the North. But you have the two beasts (men) reversed.


That is all well and good. However, it in Revelation it is the beast out of the sea which has the miraculous healing from assasination.
By the way, if in our talk I seem to gravitate more towards speaking of Christ who overcomes both these evil beast, do be understanding.
That is more important to believers for sure.


That too is all well and good. But he is speaking of the beast out of the sea.

Okay. And where did John see this beast arise from? The sea is where he saw him arise from.
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea,

And where did this wounded and healed beast come from? He came up from the sea.
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea,

Right, the beast rising up out of the sea.

That is of course referring to the one Satan summoned up from the sea.

And he [the dragon, Satan] stood on the sand of the sea. (Rev. 12:18)
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, (Rev. 13:1)

And "he" being a beast rising up out of the sea,

Again, the "he" being the one rising up out of the sea,
But don't worry. Jesus is going to get him!

And "he" is the beast John saw - a beast rising up out of the sea,

You get my point that this guy is the beast coming up out of the sea by Satan's operation.

Now we see in addition ANOTHER beast coming up out of the earth.

And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke like a dragon. (Rev. 13:11)


So we have "another beast" from the earth and the "first beast" up from the sea.

And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his sight, and he causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose death stroke was healed. (v.12)

Both of these beasts are exeedingly evil. But the details Paul describes should pertain to the first beast, the Antichrist.

. . . the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,

Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he sits in the temple of God, setting himself forth, saying that he is God. (2 Thess. 2:3b,4)

You should consider the "another beast" as the assistant serving faithfully all the purposes of the first beast.
That is in the team of beasts absolutely dedicated to Satan, the first beast coming up from the sea is served by the "another beast"
coming up out of the earth.

The first beast is of the Gentile world - signified by the sea.
The second beast "another beast" is of the land of Israel, a Jewish false prophet.
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The beast from the earth is the antichrist also known as the false prophet. Who brings worship to the beast from the sea also known as the king of the north.
 
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oikonomia

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The beast from the earth is the antichrist also known as the false prophet. Who brings worship to the beast from the sea also known as the king of the north.

They are two different people who work together.

Now they both (the two) go to the lake of fire.

Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet, who in his presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire, which burns with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10 -And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 
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d taylor

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They are two different people who work together.

Now they both (the two) go to the lake of fire.

Revelation 19:20 - And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet, who in his presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire, which burns with brimstone.

Revelation 20:10 -And the devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where also the beast and the false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Here is the two people besides satan

1. The beast from the sea who is also known as the king of the north and Paul's man of sin

Then there is the.

2. The beast from the earth also known as the antichrist and/or false prophet.

The beast from the sea/king of the north/man of sin and the false prophet/antichrist are both thrown into the lake of fire.
 
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oikonomia

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Here is the two people besides satan

1. The beast from the sea who is also known as the king of the north and Paul's man of sin

Then there is the.

2. The beast from the earth also known as the antichrist and/or false prophet.

The beast from the sea/king of the north/man of sin and the false prophet/antichrist are both thrown into the lake of fire.
So you're saying that when John saw "another beast" it was the same person.
And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, . . . And he exercises all the authority of the first beast . . . (Rev. 13:11a,12a)

And you're saying when the beast out of the earth does signs in the sight of the first beast out of the sea
It means he does signs in the sight of himself.
And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his sight, and he causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose death stroke was healed. (Rev. 13:12)

And you're teaching that the frog like demons come out of the mouth of the beast out of the sea and
also out of the beast out of the earth, it means they came out of the mouth of the same person.
And I saw, out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits as frogs; (Rev. 16:13)

And you imply that the three demons John saw are actually two. One comes out of the mouth of the dragon and the other comes out of the mouths of the sea beast and the earth beast who are one person with one mouth.
out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits as frogs; (Rev. 16:13)

So you have two persons (Satan and a beast with dual identity) but three frog like demons proceed out of their mouths.
So in your teaching it is not only important to know there is one person, one beast from two sources but also
not three demons but two.

What do you hope this interpretation will accomplish for us?
 
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d taylor

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So you're saying that when John saw "another beast" it was the same person.
And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, . . . And he exercises all the authority of the first beast . . . (Rev. 13:11a,12a)

And you're saying when the beast out of the earth does signs in the sight of the first beast out of the sea
It means he does signs in the sight of himself.
And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his sight, and he causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose death stroke was healed. (Rev. 13:12)

And you're teaching that the frog like demons come out of the mouth of the beast out of the sea and
also out of the beast out of the earth, it means they came out of the mouth of the same person.
And I saw, out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits as frogs; (Rev. 16:13)

And the three demons John saw are actually two. One comes out of the mouth of the dragon and the other comes out of the mouths
of the sea beast and the earth beast who are one person with one mouth.

out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits as frogs; (Rev. 16:13)

So you have two persons (Satan and a beast with dual identity) but three frog like demons proceed out of their mouths.
So in your teaching it is not only important to know there is one person, one beast from two sources but also
not three demons but two.

What do you hope this interpretation will accomplish for us?
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I plainly wrote out (more than once) who the beast of the sea and earth were. If you can not understand my simple explanation, I guess i will move on.
 
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oikonomia

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I plainly wrote out (more than once) who the beast of the sea and earth were. If you can not understand my simple explanation, I guess i will move on.
Moving on may be your best bet because it doesn't make good sense.
 
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d taylor

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antichrist beast from the sea


The beast from the sea is a gentile and a king.

The antichirst is Jewish and a prophet and brings worship to the beast from the sea. The beast from the land is a reference to Israel.
 
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oikonomia

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I suggest you read the book: The Power to Make War

Power to Make War – Grace Evangelical Society
I am usually opened to look at a good book.
I have half a dozen I could also recommend to you.

I first began to read and study the word of God seriously and daily in 1970.
That was 54 years ago from the freshman years in college.
What a joy and what a journey.

But post #9 I believe clearly outlines the problems with trying to make
the Antichrist and the false prophet simply two designations of the exact same person.

Both undoubably are completely dedicated to Satan to do his will.
But I would try to teach you that there is a duo for God against a duo for Satan in the last three and one half years of this age.

1.) On Satan's side are the Antichrist (the re-enlivened Nero) in the body of a man killed and resucitated.
2.) The Jewish false prophet possibly also from the past - Judas Iscariot - (perhaps)

1.) On the side of God in the darkest time Moses
2.) And Elijah both representing the law and the prophets.

So I would say to you that you have four individuals in two "teams".
 
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oikonomia

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I suggest you read the book: The Power to Make War

Power to Make War – Grace Evangelical Society
Thanks. I took a look at the intro and think I could get some good things from Hodge's book.
I now have getting back into the book of Daniel on by To-Do enjoyment of the word in the next couple of months.

Praise the Lord Jesus that He will vanquish these enemies of God and His eternal purpose whatever
the specifics of them.

Come Lord Jesus!
 
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d taylor

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Thanks. I took a look at the intro and think I could get some good things from Hodge's book.
I now have getting back into the book of Daniel on by To-Do enjoyment of the word in the next couple of months.

Praise the Lord Jesus that He will vanquish these enemies of God and His eternal purpose whatever
the specifics of them.

Come Lord Jesus!
-

You are welcome, do not get it from amazon it was $60.00. The book can be purchased at faithalone.org for about $8.00
 
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oikonomia

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You are welcome, do not get it from amazon it was $60.00. The book can be purchased at faithalone.org for about $8.00
As said I have been diving into the word awhile. After reading three books on Revelation
this one blew me away the most having made every passage in every chapter unbelievably clear and
spiritually nourishing in a devotional way of my spiritual life.

So I would recommend The Life Study of Revelation by Witness Lee.
Also free reading online.

 
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As said I have been divinging into the word awhile. After reading three books on Revelation
this one blew me away the most having made every passage in every chapter unbelievably clear and
spiritually nourishing in a devotional way of my spiritual life.

So I would recommend The Life Study of Revelation by Witness Lee.
Also free reading online.


Thanks i will look at the link, i am familiar with Witness Lee, also Watchman Nee
 
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