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Featured If you keep sinning after you are saved are you still saved?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    New Zealand
    Sinning willfully means that you give up your fight against sin and go back into a sinful lifestyle. The Scripture calls it a dog going back to its own vomit. It is a rejection of Christ. It is not when we commit an isolated sin, either through weakness or our own deliberate fault, and then take 1 John 1:9 to be forgiven and cleansed. It is when we decide that walk away from our sanctification and go back into the world and become habitual sinners again.
  2. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

    United States
    That is the accounts given in the Bible that it was Samuel. But many reject the Bibles account because the event does not follow their theology.

    So they think to, continue to, prop up their theology by making Samuel into a demon.
  3. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    New Zealand
    Reading the Bible will help.
  4. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

    United States
    And you know me, my good-hearted friend. I cannot pass over an opportunity to lovingly challenge you to believe for more.... for a heart that ALWAYS takes the way of escape our God provides when we are tempted to stray.

    This is not sinless perfectionism, but being kept by the power of God Himself thru faith!

    There is a true escape from Romans 7 into the rest of Romans 8, and I have zero doubt that you will not find it before all is said and done! May our God reveal to us just how powerful His promises are, amen?

    blessings to you and yours,

  5. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    New Zealand
    That would have been funny!
  6. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Well-Known Member

    United States
    Yes it will but it doesn’t make it clear. We are left to interpret which I don’t like doing because my opinion doesn’t matter in the search for truth
  7. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    New Zealand
    Our friend is merely repeating the 17th Century heresy that taught that it was all of Christ and not of ourselves, so people could be totally passive about their sins, sit on the couch and not work at their sanctification. What happened was that many destroyed their faith through antinomianism and fell into willful sin lifestyles and ended up in hell.
  8. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    Sin you don't repent of.

    Living with your girl friend for instance, and no longer considering it an issue because once saved always saved....no problem. In that case you might as well be planning on sinning. If I need to actually explain that is "living in sin" or "practicing sin" it is. Sin we do as a general rule, not just the one time sin after temptation that was never planned, we're sorry for, asked forgiveness for, and move on. Huge difference between sin of temptation and sin as a normal thing.

    I believe that is one place the line is drawn, we plan on sinning as opposed to just sinning due to temptation. IOW, plan to party/pick up women, do drugs, or whatever on the weekend. Always up for suggested sin, or no plan to not sin if the opportunity arises.

    It all make perfect sense to me, and I would only be able to see those things not sending me to hell if I really wanted to, and not because I got it from the bible.

    OSAS see's none of that as a problem to salvation. Others of us don't see how we can't see that as a problem.

    You mean the same sin each time you do it? If I robbed someone I'd repent of it. Meaning I'd be sorry and would not plan on dong it again, if i did rob again, yes, I would repent of the same sin again, same sin, different time. Is that what you mean? if not, please give an example.

    Where did you get the idea I thought anyone was without sin?
  9. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

    New Zealand
    The New Testament is pretty clear about God's standards for a holy life. Jesus taught it at the Sermon on the Mount; Paul and John were clear and plain about it as well. People want to interpret these plain sayings because they cannot accept the plain and direct commands to live a holy life. But this is sanctification which we have to work at until the day we die.

    Justification is when we receive Christ by faith and we are saved by grace through faith as the gift of the free pardon that God gives us because Christ paid the penalty for our sin on the cross. We receive that by faith and not through anything we can do to deserve or earn it.

    Sanctification is something we have to work at to increase in holiness and righteous living. Our goal is to be perfectly sanctified, even though we won't achieve it until we get to glory, but we never stop trying and working at it.
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

    United States
    Joshua did not make the miracle happen. God is the one who made the miracle happen. That is what I was talking about. I am saying that the sun standing still is a miracle by God. You do not know how God did that miracle (i.e. the inner workings of how God pulled off such a miracle). That is what I was talking about. You seem to want to create an argument or find fault in something that I never stated.

    I provided the context for Romans 8:13 and other cross references. You have offered nothing to support your position here. 1 Timothy 2:15 is saying that she is not saved because of child bearing but because of the latter of the verse that says: "...if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."

    Anyways, it is not really worth my time to converse with you if you do not address the actual points I made with Scripture. So I am moving on from talking to you until you do.
  11. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Well-Known Member

    United States
    i understand completely what your saying I guess my confusion is more how can one ever even attempt to claim they have lived up to the standards Jesus has set. If we haven’t lived up to Jesus standards than we are disobedient. It doesn’t matter if some wanna act like they are better than others and have conquered sin. If a person has improved on a sinful lifestyle by 80% but still struggle 20 % of the time they are simply behaving better but still disobedient. If a person has improved on a sinful lifestyle 99% of the time and only struggle 1% of the time they are so close to perfection, but still disobedient. Obedience and disobedience are mutually exclusive. You can’t be both at the same time.... so when Jesus says if you we love him obey his commands how can we figure out what he actually meant if he didn’t say? If he meant what he said then besides the one person I seen in this thread who said they are perfect, I don’t know anyone who measures up.
  12. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    Yes, technically we are all disobedient, and I assure you, no one can live up to Christ in that area because he was 100% sinless. The difference is one may think they have to make sincere effort to be obedient in order to get to heaven, and do, while another will say it doesn't matter for salvation whether we make that attempt or not, and they don't or are technically allowed to not do anything at all in that area, and will still get to heaven.

    i say it's a must to sincerely try, or go to hell. God will decide if we have done that, but we can have a pretty good idea of where we are as well. It's not rocket science to know if were being reasonably good or unreasonably bad..
  13. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

    United States
    ok ... I'll go a step further ... how about you go a few steps further as well

    State of the Dead

    Psalm 90:3-6

    You turn man back into dust And say, "Return, O children of men." For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night. You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep; In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.

    Job 7:21

    "Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be."

    Job 14:10-12

    "But man dies and lies prostrate Man expires, and where is he? "As water evaporates from the sea, And a river becomes parched and dried up, So man lies down and does not rise. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

    Psalm 13:3

    Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

    Daniel 12:2

    "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

    Matthew 9:24

    He (Jesus) said, "Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him.

    Mark 5:39

    And entering in, He said to them, "Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep."

    Luke 8:52-53

    Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, "Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep." And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.

    1 Kings 2:10

    Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

    Deuteronomy 31:16

    The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

    2 Samuel 7:12

    "When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

    1 Kings 11:43

    And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.

    1 Kings 14:20

    The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.

    1 Kings 16:6

    And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.

    1 Kings 22:50

    And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.

    2 Kings 14:16

    So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.

    2 Kings 15:7

    And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.

    2 Kings 16:20

    So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.

    2 Kings 20:21

    So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.

    2 Kings 21:18

    And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.

    Revelation 14:13

    And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."

    John 11:11-14

    This He (Jesus) said, and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep." The disciples then said to Him, "Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover." Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.

    Acts 7:60

    Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

    1 Corinthians 15:6

    After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

    John 5:28-29

    "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

    Job 14:13-15

    "Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You, That You would set a limit for me and remember me! "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait Until my change comes. "You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands.

    Psalm 17:15

    As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.

    Isaiah 26:19

    Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.

    1 Corinthians 15:20

    But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

    1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

    But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

    Jeremiah 51:57

    "I will make her princes and her wise men drunk, Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men, That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," Declares the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

    Psalm 7:3-5

    O LORD my God, if I have done this, If there is injustice in my hands, If I have rewarded evil to my friend, Or have plundered him who without cause was my adversary, Let the enemy pursue my soul and overtake it; And let him trample my life down to the ground And lay my glory in the dust. Selah.

    Psalm 76:5

    The stouthearted were plundered, They sank into sleep; And none of the warriors could use his hands.

    Jeremiah 51:39

    "When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant And may sleep a perpetual sleep And not wake up," declares the LORD.


    1 Peter 3:18-20 -
    The expression “flesh” talks about the earthly sphere of Jesus’ existence while the expression “spirit” refers to his heavenly dimension.

    1 John 3

    2 Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.

    Couple this with Jesus not correcting the disciples when they feared He was a Spirit, when He was walking on water

    This is pure conjecture on your part ... go with what is written rather than what is not written.

    Sign of Jonah

    Matthew 12

    For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    It's comparing the 3 days and 3 nights timeframe - two different places, not the same place ... Jonah in the belly of a fish ... Jesus in the heart of the earth

    I will be clear... Souls are not "destroyed" Annihilation/or eternal Torment (Pick your poison)... until final judgment that declares the wicked, wicked, and some that died outside of Christ saved.

    This statement is unclear ... however

    There are 2 resurrections, the first of the saved (those in the grave, and those living at the time. Paul sums it up here:

    1 Thessalonians 4

    13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

    15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

    18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

    The saved will be changed

    1st Corinthians 15

    40There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. But the splendor of the heavenly bodies is of one degree, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is of another.

    51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

    Later, after the 2nd resurrection of the condemned, yeah them and everything is destroyed.

    People ask the question What kind of a loving God would burn people in hell "forever"? Fact is, He don't. This is making God out to be a sadistic terrorist. totally contrary to His loving nature/character.

    Psalm 1:6 “But the way of the ungodly shall perish”

    If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the ungodly perish at all– but live forever (immortal in hell).

    Psalm 37:20 “But the wicked shall perish… they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”

    If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe the wicked will be “consumed.” Instead, they believe the wicked are tortured and never consumed.

    Psalm 69:28 says that the wicked are “blotted out of the book of the living.”

    This continues the consistency of scripture which tells us the wicked die– not that they are eternally living in a conscious hell.

    Ps. 34:16, 21 “evil brings death to the wicked.”

    Of course, if one believes in eternal hell, one doesn’t believe that evil brings death at all, but brings eternal life– in hell.

    Psalm 92:7 “… shall be destroyed forever.”

    If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they don’t believe those who are lost are “destroyed” but again, that they live forever ... tortured in hell.

    Prov. 24:20 “the lamp of the wicked will be snuffed out.”

    To believe in eternal conscious hell means one believes they will not be snuffed out at all.

    Dan. 2:35 “the wind swept them away without leaving a trace.”

    This continues the theme of totally destroyed– there’s not a trace of the wicked. This is the opposite of eternal life in hell.

    Isa. 1:28, 30–31 “rebels and sinners shall be destroyed together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be consumed.”

    Obadiah 1:16 It will be as if the evil “had never been.“

    This speaks to ceasing to exist– not eternal life in hell. In the traditional hell it will not be “as if they had never been” because they’ll live eternally and still “be.”

    Mal 4:1 “All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.”

    Here God is quoted directly– the evildoers are destroyed like straw thrown into the fire, and nothing is left. This shows total annihilation (they no longer exist). To believe in eternal hell, one would have to argue that God was mistaken and that they aren’t destroyed in the fire at all– but live forever in the fire without being consumed, which is the exact opposite of what God claimed.

    God Shows, hell (burning forever) is NOT in the Old Testament. Instead, they believed that the wicked are destroyed– that they die and do not get resurrected to eternal life. This is the testimony of the whole of scripture. To believe in eternal conscious hell is to really be at odds with the terminology we see scripture use. These same claims of annihilation and destruction continue in the New Testament:

    Matthew 10:28 “Rather, fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”

    Here Jesus himself teaches against hell– saying that those who are lost experience the death of their soul. If one believes in eternal conscious hell, they believe Jesus was wrong on this point, and that souls don’t die at all, but will live forever in hell.

    John 3:16 “…whosoever believeth in him should not perish”

    Again, to believe in hell, one must believe Jesus was wrong in John 3:16 and that people don’t “perish” at all, but live forever in hell.

    Matthew 7:13: “broad is the road that leads to destruction“

    Jesus in his warnings continues with the repetitive testimony of scripture: the consequence of rejecting reconciliation with God is destruction– not everlasting life in torment.

    Jesus on a variety of occasions uses the metaphor of fire that consumes not tortures: Matthew 7:19; Matthew 13:40; John 15:6

    Philippians 3:19 “whose end is destruction…“

    There’s that word again, “destroyed" (destruction). Those who believe in eternal hell don’t believe one is destroyed in hell, but lives there forever .... being tortured by a loving God?

    2 Thessalonians 1:9 “who shall be punished with everlasting destruction (destroyed) ”

    The Bible is getting clear that the consequence of rejecting God is destruction, not eternal life in hell.

    1 Cor 3:17: “God will destroy that person”

    There’s that word again that doesn’t mean tortured in hell, but just means what it says– destroyed.

    2 Cor 2:15-16: “those that perish“

    Again, if Paul meant hell, he should have said it– seems like everyone talks about perishing, being destroyed– but doesn’t talk about hell.

    Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death..“

    It’s perishing, dying, being destroyed.. the opposite of eternal life in hell.

    Hebrews 10:39 “But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.”

    Another version of the same term… destroyed.

    James 4:12a “There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.”

    We are to understand to be “destroyed” is the natural consequence…

    2 Peter 2:3: “Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”

    Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death…”

    Those who believe in eternal conscious hell don’t believe in the second death– they believe everyone is immortal, and that some will live forever in hell. Revelation 20:14 is clear that they die– they don’t live forever in hell at all.

    A soul is a person ... it's not something you possess .... it's what you are
    a living being.

    "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" (Gen. 2:7, NKJV).

    Scripture gives us a simple equation for understanding the nature of humans:
    Body (dust of the ground; the earth's elements) plus
    Breath of life ("spirit" of life from God) equals
    A living person (a soul).

    Nowhere does the Bible speak of the soul as an immortal entity capable of living apart from our body. Neither does it speak of the spirit as an entity which can exist independent of our physical nature. We are not made of independent parts temporarily connected, but of body, soul, and spirit in one indivisible whole.

    There is NOTHING immortal about us .... yet ;o)

    1st Timothy 6

    16 He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

    Sorry for the long post .... look forward to your take on all these verses
  14. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    United States
    In Relationship
    I am saying the flesh is weak and will sin. A Holy Spirit filled Christian will fight against the will of the flesh in order to do the will of the Father. At times the flesh wins and at times the Holy Spirit wins. We must stay the course.

    There is pure light in the Christian surrounded by pure darkness that is the flesh. It is a battle no doubt however we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Paul speaks of this, though controversial, by example. See Romans 7
  15. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

    United States
    And Im guessing heresy is ok with you since we all sin and it is not possible to stop?

    It would be wiser to be well versed in truth before becoming well versed in Heresy.
  16. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    That's a matter of knowing what Jesus is about, and what he considers when he says things like that. Something that many OSASr's are no longer able to do. I'm serious about that, and I don't say it to cut them down, be mean or whatever, but I've seen it on these threads where they go against all logic in trying to defend OSAS, denial at it's worst. One very important reason I've said several times here, don't even get caught up in it to begin with, because you may never be able to get out. And yes, it's as scary as it sounds. IOW, they refuse to see basic things like the following because the "bible doen't say it" even if it in fact does, just indirectly. You sound like you're still ok. :)

    Anyway, though important, I got off track. We all know Christ died for our sins, and that in itself is plenty to know that we are expected not to be perfect, and that's why God set up a plan to deal with that, both now, just as he did in the Old testament. So that takes care of when Christ says to obey the commandments for instance, that he doesn't expect perfection, the reason I say sincere effort.

    Sorry about all the mistakes...should be fixed now.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  17. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

    United States
    You are right to disbelieve anything I say unless you have experienced it. I would only advise that you believe more for yourself....or at least not put any limits on what God can do in you....now. As it can only be done unto us as we believe.

    Can we do all things through Christ....or are there exceptions? If so, how many exceptions and who gets to decide what they are?

    If this seems foreign or off topic, please ignore....It may be for someone else to read.
  18. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

    United States
    You have mistaken that I lean towards "ECT"... I divided Sheol from the Lake of fire and specified (Pick your poison)...

    Okay... I'll go a step further....

    1 Thessalonians 5:23

    Body, Mind and Soul...

    Ecclesiastes 12:7

    The spirit/Pneuma Returns to God, Who gave it.
    The body returns to dust...

    What of the SOUL?

    By admission, you noted the Soul is not discussed, and it is speculative to say it goes on... though God Incarnate, Himself, specifically said it had to be "destroyed".

    How about Paul?

    2 Corinthians 5:1-8

    Back to Jonah...

    1 Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from inside the fish:
    2 I called to the Lord in my distress, and He answered me. I cried out for help in the belly of Sheol; You heard my voice.
    3 You threw me into the depths, into the heart of the seas, and the current overcame me. All Your breakers and Your billows swept over me.
    4 But I said: I have been banished from Your sight, yet I will look once more toward Your holy temple.
    5 The waters engulfed me up to the neck; the watery depths overcame me; seaweed was wrapped around my head.
    6 I sank to the foundations of the mountains; the earth with its prison bars closed behind me forever! But You raised my life from the Pit, Lord my God!
    7 As my life was fading away, I remembered the Lord. My prayer came to You, to Your holy temple.

    7585. sheol
    Strong's Concordance
    sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
    Original Word: שְׁאוֹל
    Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
    Transliteration: sheol
    Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ole')
    Definition: underworld (place to which people descend at death)

    But wait! There's more... ;)

    Matthew 12:39 {worth clicking on as Jesus said it}

    Can you explain Matthew 12:39 and it's meaning?

    Luke 16:22-23 ... and know that this is not Hell... but a distinct place that is known as what it is spoken as.

    Pair that with Hebrews 11:13

    Still not convinced?

    1 the underworld, תַּחְתִּית ׳שׁ Deuteronomy 32:22, מִתַּחַתIsaiah 14:9; מִ֑טָּה ׳מִשּׁ Proverbs 15:24; "" מָוֶת Proverbs 5:5; Proverbs 7:27; Songs 8:6; Psalm 89:49; whither men descend at death, Genesis 37:35 (E), Genesis 42:38; Genesis 44:29,31 (J), 1 Samuel 2:6; 1 Kings 2:6,9; Job 7:9; Job 21:13; Isaiah 14:11,15; Psalm 88:4, and Korah and associates go down alive by ׳יs judgment, Numbers 16:30,33 (J), compare Psalm 55:16; under mountains and sea Job 26:6 (compare Job 26:5), ׳בֶּטֶן שׁJonah 2:3 (compare Jonah 2:7); with bars Job 17:16 (si vera 1.: see ᵐ5 Du); ׳מִּי שׁ Psalm 141:7; ׳שַׁעֲרֵי שׁ Isaiah 38:10; personified Isaiah 28:15,18 ("" מות). as insatiable monster Isaiah 5:14; Habakkuk 2:5; Proverbs 1:12; Proverbs 27:20; Proverbs 30:16; as said (figurative) to have snares, ׳חֶבְלֵי שׁPsalm 18:6 = 2 Samuel 22:6 compare ׳מְצָרֵי שׁ Psalm 116:3; opposed to (height of) שָׁמַיִם Amos 9:2; Job 11:8; Psalm 139:8+ (opposed to לְמָ֑עְלָה) Isaiah 7:11 (see above); dark, gloomy, without return Job 17:13 (compare Job 17:16; Job 7:9; Job 10:21; Job 16:22; all being alike Job 3:17-19; Job 21:23-26 ); without work or knowledge or wisdom according to Ecclesiastes 9:5,6,10 (compare Job 14:21, and see רְפָאִיםbelow רפה; yet compare Isaiah 14:9f.).

  19. Hammster

    Hammster I am the wretch in the song. Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    United States
    And you still haven’t answered the question
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  20. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

    Anyone who says they are flawless/perfect now that they are saved, it is said that they will be fooled the most when they stand before God. Pride, arrogance...etc are pretty big things in christians who think they are "holier than thou". The bigger they are, the harder they fall. Even the bible says He will knock you down when you become very prideful. This is also why the bible talks of humility/humbleness. I myself when I talk to others NEVEr make myself out to be perfect. They are even free to check out my pasts posts on here to see things I struggle with.

    Oh no, they are indeed equal. All sin is equal. Granted sometimes we try to place other sins above other ones. Like we tend to fight tooth and nail about LGBT stuff, but overlook things like additions.

    I've always said Jesus Himself nearly sinned. He nearly gave into things. So if Jesus almost stumbled, we pretty much have no chance of being "perfect". Again, not that we should use it as an excuse to sin. Because if we use it as an excuse, then we may be seeing a fate we did not expect when we stand before God.
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