If you keep sinning after you are saved are you still saved?

[Loversofjesus_2018]

I don't think they have the sound appreciation of the sinfulness of sin, and if that is so, then their conversion to Christ can only be half-hearted, and that Justification and Salvation are pretty well meaningless words to them.

Genuine believers don't have a lifestyle of premeditated, willful sin, but they do sin out of weakness; and the reality is that after conversion, because sin is so sinful, it sticks to us like dog poop to our shoe. We know it is there, and try to get rid of it because it stinks and is unpleasant!

Help me understand what it’s means to sin unwillfully.... does it mean you didn’t know you were going to, didn’t plan it out and dont wanna do it?

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Obviously salvation is a once for all process. I wasn't trying to state that it wasn't especially when Hebrews 10:10 says that it is

"10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."


But my question was more along the lines of "What sinners does Christ save? Those who don't fall into constant sin after salvation? Or those who come to him for salvation?

Obviously we cannot be sinless after salvation but will a saved person not fall into constant sin?

I guess another way to phrase my question would be "What saves a person?" and "After we are saved just how much will we sin exactly?"

I mean I guess I'm saying that a person who lives in a state of constant sin is not a saved born again Christian because the Holy Spirit works to convict us of sin and helps us wage war against our sin.

Then someone has gotta have a standard. And I would like to know the standard. St one point does one fall into constant sin. Does it have to everyday? Every other day? Once a month?

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Romans 2:5

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

“If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14

If a person sins one time after being saved did were they disobedient to Christ command of keep his commandments?

 

[Swan7]

Don't believe those who want to tell you smooth things and that you will be saved by continuing in known unrepentant sin. All those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT sin will not enter into the KINGDOM of Heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 6:4-8; HEBREWS 10:26-27; 1 JOHN 2:3-4.

It is only those who CONTINUE to the END enduring temptation BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD that JESUS promises not to lose. Those who do not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD are not His people and therefore have no claim to God's promises.

Amen to this!

This is why it's so important to take the Bible, God's Word, as a WHOLE, otherwise it is just partiality which God is not a part of. One cannot just take one tiny piece of scripture and ignore the rest of what God has said. Jesus is the Truth and He has us ALL truth! He has told us many, many times to not heed to those who form their own opinion in place of God's. This goes for me as well because sometimes I still form my own opinion by accident. Walking in this new life takes time and practice with God's gracious help. It's why it's so important to die to oneself and follow God over oneself.

"Let those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear." - Jesus Christ.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

My pastor says if someone claims to no longer sin, then they are fooling themselves and lying.

Just because we are saved doesn't mean we no longer sin. Yes our sins are paid for, but we are still are in fleshy corrupt bodies. When someone cuts you off in traffic do you get mad? When you tub your toe do you yell? Do you perhaps watch tv more then you should? Maybe you went over the speed limit?

Point being we all sin. However that said, it doesn't mean its an excuse to sin. You can't be like "Well I am saved and my sins are paid for, now I shall look at some inappropriate content since I got nothing to worry about!". There is a difference between outright sinning and accidentally sinning. Such as yelling at the driver who cut you off.

We have to finish this race while also trying as hard as we can NOT to sin. Which may be impossible but thats ok. God knows that. We need to reflect Jesus as much as we can. Because if we don't, maybe in our hearts we never really believed. But only God knows that of course.

Yelling at the driver who cut you off isn’t an accident. Maybe that person struggles with anger..... what’s the difference between the person who struggles with anger and yells when they get cut off and the person who struggles with lust and looks at inappropriate content when they have lost control? And I’m not asking these questions to start anything. I’m trying to really understand how there so a difference because I see the two as equal.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

We all sin. I know this is the common answer to your concern. So I will change it up a bit. Do you want to sin? Do you enjoy the act of sinning? If the answer is no, then you are just in the flesh and not walking in the Spirit. If you walk in the Spirit eventually habitual sins will naturally fall away. I know this is very hard for Christians to grasp but I believe this to be true. It is the scriptural answer to a guilt free life.
Blessings

Hello, I have a question... are you saying a Christian will still sin but not want to sin?

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

I have posted my complete answer to the "back-door" salvation by works, but those who are suggesting that mature believers can go into willful and premeditated sin, just keep banging on the same old drum as it repeated posts saying the same things will convince intelligent believers of their heretical views.

Obviously our friends have never read any of the Puritan divines who have given us the best and most sound doctrinal teaching about sin, salvation, and sanctification.

Isn’t all sin willful and premeditated? Sure there may be somethings that we were unaware were sin but for the most part I find it hard to believe that anybody is sinning against their own will and didn’t know it was sin before they decided to do it.

 

[PaulCyp1]

You are not saved until you enter Heaven. Until the moment of your death, you are still free to turn away from God and forfeit salvation. Making a commitment to Jesus Christ and following Him doesn't remove your free will. You can still choose good or evil, faithfulness or unfaithfulness. We all know people who have followed Jesus Christ for a while, and then succumbed to the temptations of the world and wandered away from Him. When a pastor who brought many people to Jesus Christ abandons his wife and runs off with his secretary, the members of His Church say "I guess he never really was saved". Right! And neither is anyone else until they reach Heaven.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

Evil thoughts are included in the definition of walking without sin. But lets get back to Augustine and not take things off track.

Are you saying you don’t ever sin?

 

[RaymondG]

My pastor says if someone claims to no longer sin, then they are fooling themselves and lying.

It is understandable one who has not achieved something, would preach against others achieving the same. Some preachers view themselves as closer to God than anyone else..... Therefore if they cant stop sinning.....you have no chance. e.g. if the rich cannot make it in.....who then can be saved?

With man this is impossible, but with God nothing is impossible.

If you choose to only reach the height Man set for you....I find no fault.

But I would encourage others to go as far as they believe God can take them.....despite what man says.

 

[eleos1954]

If a person sins one time after being saved did were they disobedient to Christ command of keep his commandments?

It is the trend of ones life. Often we repeat the same sin. Repent and ask Him to help you overcome your sins ... repenting means to be sincerely sorry and turn away from sin. He will help you overcome ... it may take time ... but He will do it.

You are saved .... now you are being sanctified and this continues throughout the rest of ones life. Everyone will stumble ... everyone.

Sanctification. It’s the reciprocation of our love toward God. We are sanctified with the help of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) that Jesus gives us. Sanctification means to set a part or to make holy. His Holy Spirit helps us in this process to become more like Christ. This is not a one time event; it’s a life long process (we stumble here and there). The process of sanctifying and purifying us (the works that Jesus does in the believer, and is not of ourselves) ... it is HIM working in us. We are separated from the world. We are in the physical world but not of the world spiritually. Our mind (thinking) changes over time and therefore our actions also change. Our faith increases more and more as He faithfully works in us. Hebrews 12:2

Philippians 1

6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Believe it!

Study His word diligently, praying unceasingly.

God Bless.

 

[Loversofjesus_2018]

To all:

There are going to be individuals who think they have proven me wrong with Scripture (When they really haven't). But people will be able to see for themselves that there is no such evidence on their end if they were to look around.

I am also talking from my experience over many years over different Christian forums, too. I am talking about those believers who think they can sin and still be saved on occasion (or on some level), and my dealings with them. I have talked with a wide range of Belief Alone Proponents. Some believe you can sin as much as you want and be saved by having a belief alone on Jesus. Others believe you can sin only on occasion and you cannot help but to sin and you are saved by having a belief in Jesus alone.

Anyways, if anyone here thinks they have evidence that refutes the verses I put forth, then they should provide the post #'s of their explanation on the verses I presented that demolishes their belief in "Belief Alone-ism." They need to come up with a proper explanation using the context on those verses I present. So far, this has not happened. But they are free to object with no actual evidence (of course).

I hope this helps for those who are good Bereans or those who are seeking the truth.

Blessings to you all in the Lord today.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.

Can you just point blank make it clear. Are you saying you have attained 100% perfection in your walk. You do not sin anymore? If you have I would like to know how long it took you to get there and how you did it. Thanks

 

[Hammster]

It is understandable one who has not achieved something, would preach against others achieving the same. Some preachers view themselves as closer to God than anyone else..... Therefore if the cant stop sinning.....you have no chance. e.g. if the rich cannot make it in.....who then can be saved?

With man this is impossible, but with God nothing is impossible.

If you choose to only reach the height Man set for you....I find no fault.

But I would encourage others to go as far as they believe God can take them.....despite what man says.

Do you always love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength?

 

[d taylor]

#1. In 1 Samuel 28:14, we find that Samuel is wearing a regular mantle or robe. While in and of itself this may not appear to be any major signifigance, but this appears to show that he had something to hide. For in 1st Kings, we learn that a mantle (robe) can be used to hide one's face.

#2. In 1 Samuel 28:14, we also learn that this vision of Samuel stooped his face to the ground and bowed himself before them. While "obeisance" was a customary act before a king, Saul was no longer a king in God's eyes. Also, in the New Testament we learn that an angel and an apostle had refused any type of bowing down before them. The fact that this vision of Samuel did so suggests that it was bowing down before them as per Saul's wish by the witch.

#3. If this was the real 1 Samuel, then God would be condoning the practice of witchcraft.

#4. The narrative of Saul consulting a medium is in 1 Samuel 28:7-25. The 1st verse prior to this passage, lets us know this fact: “when Saul inquired of the Lord, the Lord did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets” (1 Samuel 28:6). In other words, Saul was not hearing from God. That's the context.

1Samuel 28:14 is Saul bowing before Samuel.

So demons are able to give prophecy, that come true.

That is only something God can do (give future prophecy that comes true).

 

[eleos1954]

1Samuel 28:14 is Saul bowing before Samuel.

So demons are able to give prophecy, that come true.

That is only something God can do (give future prophecy that comes true).

"That is only something God can do (give future prophecy that comes true"

Baloney .... there have been many many prophecies from ungodly people, yes even demonic influenced ones, and the prophecies have come to pass.

This is why it's important to know the truth about the state of the dead, so we won't be deceived.

The dead ... all the dead ... are in the grave and KNOW NOTHING.

Ecclesiastes 9

5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

 

[d taylor]

We really do not know how God did it. It was a miracle. God can certainly suspend all the laws of physics to make the sun stand still.



A reflected light on an object is still a source of light in a dark sky.

Again, I fail to see what this has to do with proving your interpretation on Romans 8:13. Did you even look at the points of the context I presented?

Also, I am not in disagreement that the Bible has metaphors within it.
Most fail to understand the Story of Noah and Ham because they do not know how to properly apply biblical metaphors.

Biblical Metaphors Shed Light on Ham's Sin in Noah's Tent.

If you believe Paul was speaking metaphorically in Romans 8:13, then you need to prove that using the context and or by some other cross reference. So far, I am proving my interpretation using the Bible, and yet you are not really doing that.

I know how it was done, the Bible states how, Joshua commanded the sun and moon to stop moving and the Bible says God heeded Joshua's command .

The point of this is that you take the Bible and believe the parts that you believe, that match up with your theology and then make adjustments when areas do not. But those adjustments are not based upon the Bible saying to make these interpretations, it is from and because of man's views on areas in the Bible.

So for Romans 8:13, Paul states if you live for the flesh you will die. So you believe Paul is talking about if you sin you will die and go to hell (die spiritually).

Which you have to added in "die spiritually" to make your theology work same with Joshua 10:12-15 you add in that you really do not know how God did this miracle. Not because of any reasin given by the Bible but because you believe mans account of Gods creation.

So if you really were not reading your ideas into Bible verses you would say that Romans 8:13 is speaking about a person dying and going to hell. Because that is nowhere stated in that verse.

Is a women given salvation because they have children.

 

[Grip Docility]

You are not saved until you enter Heaven. Until the moment of your death, you are still free to turn away from God and forfeit salvation. Making a commitment to Jesus Christ and following Him doesn't remove your free will. You can still choose good or evil, faithfulness or unfaithfulness. We all know people who have followed Jesus Christ for a while, and then succumbed to the temptations of the world and wandered away from Him. When a pastor who brought many people to Jesus Christ abandons his wife and runs off with his secretary, the members of His Church say "I guess he never really was saved". Right! And neither is anyone else until they reach Heaven.

Under Who’s authority do you deem that pastor unsaved?

What were his circumstances?

Was his wife a sociopath that made his life a living misery?

Are pastors beyond sin? Must they be perfect? If your answer is yes, you don’t know pastors.

Last question... why are so many passages of scripture in the present tense of "saved", and so few in the tense of falling away?

 

[Grip Docility]

"That is only something God can do (give future prophecy that comes true"

Baloney .... there have been many many prophecies from ungodly people, yes even demonic influenced ones, and the prophecies have come to pass.

This is why it's important to know the truth about the state of the dead, so we won't be deceived.

The dead ... all the dead ... are in the grave and KNOW NOTHING.

Ecclesiastes 9

5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

Oh boy, the dead of that verse are not the dead you are thinking of.

I will be clear... Souls are not "destroyed" Annihilation/or eternal Torment (Pick your poison)... until final judgment that declares the wicked, wicked, and some that died outside of Christ saved.

Case in point... Soul's exist. Sheol is the realm of the dead, while "hell" is a lousy term coined to explain the lake of fire.

Jonah cried out from Sheol, within the belly of the Whale... and Christ affirms that Jonah died and was regurgitated/resurrected ... by binding the event to "The Sign of Jonah".

Couple this with Jesus not correcting the disciples when they feared He was a Spirit, when He was walking on water, and what the true meaning of sorcery in scripture is... and you will begin to understand that "Soul Sleep" is a deceitful doctrine.

Go a step further, and dive into 1 Peter 3:18-20, and see if you can deny what is plainly there.

 

[d taylor]

"That is only something God can do (give future prophecy that comes true"

Baloney .... there have been many many prophecies from ungodly people, yes even demonic influenced ones, and the prophecies have come to pass.

This is why it's important to know the truth about the state of the dead, so we won't be deceived.

The dead ... all the dead ... are in the grave and KNOW NOTHING.

Ecclesiastes 9

5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

Did i say anything about dead giving future prophecy. Samuel was brought up from His rest by God. God had stopped communicating with Saul, but used Samuel to give Saul's His fate.

The Bible states everyone is appointed to die but Enoch was taken away.

God makes the rules/laws He can do as he wants.

I would like to see a list of theses many ungodly prophecies that have been made and come true in the Bible.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If I'm not mistaken, non OSAS has always said we can repent of any sin, but if we live in the sin, either from the time we "say" we are saved, or fall back into it after awhile of true salvation, due to temptation of the world, unrepentant and ongoing sin, that is a serious problem.

That should cover the constant excuse "Well, we all sin, so there ya go, our sin can't keep us from heaven". No, we do not all live in unrepentant sin. Do you now understand or will you all continue to use that clearly deceptive comment/half truth as defense?

You all do realize there are sincere people here looking for the truth, so it's my desire we teach that, I have no other agenda in speaking up. So, in all fairness, if you think what I propose as the truth in the first paragraph there, is not the truth, please explain where I ere?