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Featured If you keep sinning after you are saved are you still saved?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I, of my own self, can do nothing...... It is the Father that doeth the work.

    Maybe this is where we differ. It seems that you have tried to do these works instead of having the work be done in you..... You should stop working and trying to view the works of others.......because, for man, this is impossible.
     
  2. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Active Member

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    So what is unrepentant sin? How do you drone that? If you have to repent of the same sin more than once, is that unrepentant even if you ask for forgiveness? No one seems to be able to answer this question for me and I don’t have the answer either. I get a lot of people giving opinions but still going around the question. From what I’m reading people are making it seem like the only ones who aren’t in unrepentant sin are the one who have no idea that what they are doing are wrong. Which I’m having a hard time understanding.
     
  3. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The difference between an Aussie and a Kiwi is the way they are brainwashed. I am not sure if an Aussie has a brain to be washed, and a Kiwi is brain washed by filling up his gumboots with water!
     
  4. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Kenny, no honest Christian is without sin.

    Honesty is your focus... does the Holy Spirit convict us and bring our conscience into deep sensitivity, or harden us enough to deny our human weakness?
     
  5. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Because Arminius was lumped in with the Pelagius' doctrine, he went to some lengths to explain the differences between them. Perhaps the best view of Pelagius is seen in Arminius' works if anyone wants to read through three volumes of 500 pages each. I got through 250 pages of his first volume over two or three days having it read to me by Dreamreader on my iPad. But he is quite analytical and complicated in his explanations and having it read to me goes through the text too quickly to really take it in. One has to read it carefully to get clearly what he is saying.

    I decided to find out what Arminius believed about predestination and election, "from the horse's mouth" as it were, rather than accept the different theories about his doctrine. It is usually the dominant view that is preeminent in Christian theology, and Calvinism was dominant in Protestant circles at the time, and so Arminius was criticised and discredited. A lot of what I read in the 250 pages was him countering what he viewed were lies about his doctrine from his opponents.

    In actual fact, Arminius was closer to Scripture in his view and lived a more holy life than Calvin, but Calvin had politics on his side and Arminius didn't. In the same way that some Charismatics have gone into excesses to the degree that they have been cultlike, I guess that much Arminian doctrine has gone into excesses by his followers. For example, he definitely did not believe in entire sanctification or sinless perfection at all.

    Anyway, that is my view. I stopped reading him after 250 pages. I had better things to read.
     
  6. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    This is interesting, indeed. There is much wisdom in “History being written by “victors””.
     
  7. Loversofjesus_2018

    Loversofjesus_2018 Active Member

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    Why does it seem everyone keeps saying you have to be obedient but you will be disobedient at times. Both of those can’t be true at the same time.
     
  8. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It is interesting that our friend said he would pray for you. It is significant that I don't see anything in Scripture that shows that we can use prayer for God to somehow get another person to change their doctrinal views to suit us. We can ask God to enlighten a sinner so that they can believe the gospel, or strengthen a struggling soul to have a stronger faith in Jesus. If I went to God and said, "I want you to change that person's view to agree with me", He would say, "What is that to you? Follow Jesus."
     
  9. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    No human being in the presence of God can honestly say they obey even close to well and are without sin. (In respects to the flesh)

    It takes courage to confess our sins one to another.

    One way encourages the body, while the other ties up heavy burdens.

    Romans 7 is etched into my soul.
     
  10. Grip Docility

    Grip Docility Well-Known Member

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    Is it wrong that I wanted to hit the prayer emoji for comical effect on your post?

    How humble the prayer emoji in debate. How softly it says... “I’m right and you’re wrong, May Jesus show you my light”.
     
  11. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    When we read through the many posts that good, godly, teachable, Scripture-abiding folk have posted on this thread, there is more than sufficient information that would totally address the issues our friend has raised. It is just that he won't accept them and consider that he could be mistaken.

    As I wrote that and remember our very long discussion about Calvinism, the little voice in the back of my head asked, "Are you any better?" Probably not! :)

    But our friend has only one string to his guitar and he keeps banging on it repeatedly in the hope that his "correct" view will somehow penetrate our "thick skulls". All that does is gives me a headache!
     
  12. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    We struggle with in in this life, and this is because we have a new, godly heart. You will find that an unbeliever does not have this struggle with sin, because he is unconverted and has an evil heart that loves to sin. He has no struggle with it. He just relaxes and enjoys it. He can't see anything wrong with sinful behaviour; in fact he doesn't see his behaviour as sinful at all!

    So, the struggle against sin is the hallmark of a genuinely converted believer, and that struggle is just for this life. Once he gets to heaven, he has left his sinful body behind, and has been given a new, glorified body, without sin, and so he is clothed appropriately for heaven. He has the correct wedding garment to be part of the spotless bride of Christ.
     
  13. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I think we need to steer away from observations of a personal nature and veiled accusations. This is not about you or me. The issue is in "the light bulb", separate from us personally, and that is where it should stay.
     
  14. Hammster

    Hammster Buckeye Newshawk Award Winner Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    I wasn’t talking about me. And you didn’t answer the question.
     
  15. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    What you are saying is the heresy of antinomianism - that we are sinless by faith and therefore don't have to work at being holy and living a righteous life, and if we drift into sinful behaviour, we just remain passive and say we are sinless by faith and the way we actually behave doesn't matter.
     
  16. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    I didn't mean to claim that we can be sinless after salvation but surely a Christian can not LIVE in sin after salvation right? That's mainly what my question is. Like just how much can we sin after salvation to remain saved? I do not believe that a Christian can lose salvation but I do believe that if a Christian sins all the time that there is something wrong there. Because the Holy Spirit is supposed to be working in their lives not only convicting them of their sin but hes also supposed to be working in their lives to make them sin LESS. Am I right?
     
  17. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I'm saying that a genuinely converted believer will fight against the sinfulness of his flesh and therefore will not willfully sin, and will mourn when he sins out of weakness because he is still human and therefore imperfect. In his heart his greatest desire is to be perfectly sanctified - that is his goal and he runs the race to achieve it, even though in this life he will never get there. The finish line for him will be death or rapture, because then he will be in glory and has left his sinful flesh behind.
     
  18. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    This was one of the very rare times when a person was brought back from Paradise for a special purpose. In this case, God allowed Samuel to come back to pronounce judgment upon Saul. It wasn't a demon, because both the witch and Saul recognised him as Samuel and what Samuel said was totally consistent with what God was saying to Saul all along concerning his disobedience. If it were a demon, it would have told him that everything was going to be okay and that Saul was not going to be judged by God.
     
  19. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    If you've had evil thoughts this week, you'd better quote those Scriptures to yourself! :)
     
  20. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Our awakening is beginning. Prepare to be amazed.

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    This was a great answer my friend. I believe God has more for us but with that mentality you shared, he or she is sure to receive all they need from God to walk in holiness and righteousness all the days of their lives.

    May God richly bless you.

    Gids
     
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