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Featured I have a question about the Trinity.

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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  2. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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  3. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    I believe I already understood eternity and our time. You do not explain why Jesus is not the Eternal Father...which is what I dispute.
     
  4. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    Are you or are you not trying to disprove the Trinity? You seem to take issue with my citation of Isaiah 9:6-7 passages as holding up the Trinity doctrine. In my view one can read these passages and all the meaning they ascribe to the Godhead is very clearly a Trinity more clearly than what you set out in human terms. Many of your points are really your own human assumptions while some are supported by Scripture. Why did you find the need to go outside Scripture?
     
  5. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    And what do you think I "set out in human terms"? You seem confused. Did you not read the first sentence I wrote about being wary not to fall into modalism. The Father, Son and Spirit are separate persons.
     
  6. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    They are separate yet One.
     
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I don't know about "separate", and, yes, "One", but do they have "distinctions" from one another...? Differences that are unique to them, and that maybe they have, or know more or less about, or have more or less in abundance, than the other ones...? Or can that not apply to The Triune Being...?

    How are they equal yet not the same...? And how can they be...? And does that make for distinctions...? (among them)...? If they are not, (the same or equal), ect...?

    And does that make any one of them "entirely knowledgeable", if there are differences or distinctions among them, since they would have unique knowledge/abilities, or whatever; but, "knowledge" that they would know more about than one of the other ones would or do (know about, ect), or we would say they would be knowing less, than the other one(s) in some areas, and maybe some "more so" in some areas than others or the other ones, less in others, ect...

    Does any of this apply...?

    God Bless!
     
  8. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    The three persons are One and that oneness is very important for God says...

    Deuteronomy 6:4:
    Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

    The work that each "person" of the Trinity is known to us also; how the persons interrelate is less known except where Jesus says...
    John 5:19-20:
    Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does.

    I believe I'd get myself into trouble if I were to say I have exact knowledge of the godhead...it is imperfect knowledge...we see dimly here. Similarly I believe it would be a mistake on my part to say because it doesn't make logical sense to me it is not nor can it be true.
     
  9. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Some great discussion on this topic in another thread also.

    First Church Orthodox or Catholic?

     
  10. LoveofTruth

    LoveofTruth Christ builds His church from within us

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    Acts 5:3,4 “But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, ..,thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.”
     
  11. Root of Jesse

    Root of Jesse Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    I think the Athanasian Creed explains it best.
     
  12. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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  13. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    I just read another verse that proves the trinity:


    "That they may be one as we are one" John 17:11

    This prayer is dominated by the theme of unity. Jesus prays not only for unity among his disciples (v.11), but also for the church (v.20). He prays for a unity like that which unites the Trinity.
     
  14. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    This unity that Jesus makes evident in the passages you cite is no mere human word but is a profound mystery. Here are more passages to bring out this fact:
    Ephesians 5:29-32:
    After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church
     
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  15. Daniel C

    Daniel C Well-Known Member

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    The sun has a 3 in 1 principle.

    There's the star,the heat and the light. Three distinct elements but one entity.

    Surely God is great enough to take on a form that could be three persons in one essence.
     
  16. dstamps

    dstamps New Member Supporter

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    Man is in the image of GOD. Therefore, Man is a trinity in the same sense that GOD is a Trinity. Jesus states in Mark 12:30 that Man has a heart, soul, and mind plus a body (implied by 'all thy strength'). Each of the 3 planes of spiritual existence serve a different purpose within a living being. Man's heart is where the living being's purpose is initiated (Cause level 'future actions'). Man's Soul is always in the present (Expression level 'now'). Man's Mind is where a living being's thoughts happen (Manifestation level 'past'). When we become aware of our thoughts, they have already happened. With this in mind, are you 'One'?
    How Man is in GOD's Image
     
  17. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    You cannot, in my view claim that man is a Trinity...that is "going beyond what is written" and "running ahead" which we are not to do. You are using man's logic...poorly (IMO) to prove a profound spiritual truth which really is an impossible task.
     
  18. dstamps

    dstamps New Member Supporter

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    You can't have it both ways. If Man is in GOD's Image and GOD is a Trinity, then Man must also be a trinity. We know we aren't 3 persons in one, but we are one living being existing on 3 planes of existence which we can experience daily as I described in my original post. From where do your thoughts come? When you recognize them, they have already happened. If you try to not have thoughts, they will eventually appear. Since they are the past and you are in the present you are not on the same plane of existence as they are.

    "going beyond what is written" can be the correct interpretation of Scripture's allegorical nature. If you use the Physical Reality to explain the Spiritual Reality it must be done by using physical things to explain spiritual things. A physical tree does not exist in the Spiritual Reality, but it can be used to convey the nature of what is spiritual depending on its relationship with the other parts of the allegory--giving us a picture into the nature of the spiritual reality.

    Literally, Jesus said we must eat his flesh and drink his blood. We don't do that by nibbling on a cracker and sipping grape juice which only symbolizes that we are doing the reality of his statement--daily. Following the reality of his statement results in our spiritual being becoming more and more who he really is.
     
  19. throughfireytrial

    throughfireytrial Truth-Lover Supporter

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    Yes, you can have it both ways...God a Trinity and us not...all things are possible with God. We must stop short of explanations where Scripture is silent and not only is it silent on this matter, but names it a profound mystery...we are not privy to an explanation anywhere. Curious as to why you feel the need to solve it when Paul himself does not.
    Even in human wisdom/logic however, your statement that God is a Trinity, we are made in His image, therefore we have to also each be a Trinity is false. The MUST or MUST ALSO BE of your sentence is what renders it to be false. For, human situation now, looking at our ancestry DNA and that of our ancestors we find we do not hold all things in common. Some attributes do not pass down to the siblings...that and there are also aberrations and mutations which are unexplained (to the satisfaction of many Christians).
    Good thinking, but exercise caution by making certain all of Scripture is satisfied by your deductions before making any pronouncements. In this case you missed...
    II John 1:9:
    Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
    and...
    I Corinthians 4:6:
    ...so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.”...
    and...
    Ephesians 5:31-32:
    “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.

    Take all passages and cautions into consideration and then take the road of humility and submit to the Word...God will surely bless you abundantly.
     
  20. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    That's correct and I agree--IF we are saying that the nature of Man is equivalent to the nature of God. But when our friend explained what he had in mind ('Man has a heart, soul, and mind plus a body'), it became clear that he was referring to a threesome of something or other, but not anything analogous to the three persons of God.
     
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