Have you cut ties with your unvaccinated friends?

[cow451]

That's what they get for not being vaccinated.

Those foolish young children should learn to avoid unvaccinated adults.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Spreading it to those other people isn't "personal" to them?

If you are vaccinated, why would you be worried about getting the virus? Sure, there is only less than a 5% chance of getting infected after getting vaccinated. But considering the risk of death from covid is less than 1%, 5% of less than 1% is so incredibly small that you are more justified being afraid of the common cold.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Those can jam, you know.

Then you rack the slide and the other person starts their turn.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Fortunately, cupcakes on forums cannot spread COVID. So, I can continue my outreach efforts.

There are cupcakes? Where?

 

[durangodawood]

Compaired to standard testing, yes. It's understandable, there wasn't time to put it through the whole nine yards. Also it certainly hasn't stood the test of time. No one knows for sure what long term side effects there might be. There's plenty of reasons for people to be leery of it in my opinion.

No. The vaccines are not "untested" compared to anything. They are less tested, but still withstood months of observation with patient groups in the tens of thousands. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised you didnt know this tho, in our current information climate.

 

[Bobber]

Some of the most dangerous deniers are otherwise relatively educated people.

Well you've just acknowledged right there these people aren't total dopes. They've been around the block when it comes to being educated. So are you saying one should never allow to come to the forefront intelligent questions and concerns these people raise. And how do you know relatively educated people as you call them can't ever be right?

Your statements remind me of a Doctor I once had who got mad when I was offering potential opinions on what drugs for a certain condition I should be taking. He told me in a rather condescending way I shouldn't be seeking to diagnose my case. I stayed quite for a few minutes and let him carry on. I then asked, "Well what about Drug M I was reading that can have positive effects. He stared off into space contemplating what I was saying and replied, "Yes that might work!"

Well so much for a relatively educated person not being able to understand anything about his expertise and not being able to see things that maybe he hasn't considered.

And you act like the jury is all in when it comes to understanding the long term effects, if any of these vaccines. I think really educated people KNOW the jury isn't in yet. That's not to say there will be any long term negative effects but YOU DON'T KNOW that yet. So how do you know ones having reservations about these vaccines really are the dangerous ones. If there's shown to be long term complications that develop later on then I'm guessing you'd change your opinion to they really weren't that dangerous after all?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Those foolish young children should learn to avoid unvaccinated adults.

Healthy young children are at little to no risk from catching Covid. Unhealthy children who are, are usually already under routine medical care which should include vaccination.

 

[cow451]

Then you rack the slide and the other person starts their turn.

If I were the next in line I would "accidentally" aim .... nevermind...

 

[cow451]

There are cupcakes? Where?

There's an epidemic, hadn't you noticed?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Sure, there is only less than a 5% chance of getting infected after getting vaccinated.

In case you haven't been keeping up with current events, the vaccines are not 100% effective, meaning there is a possibility of contracting some form of COVID from the ...

As I said, covid vaccine is only 95% effective. Flu shots are not 100% effective yet there is no shame to people who don't get the flu vaccine.

 

[98cwitr]

Let us examine Martin Luther's take when dealing with the Plague...which was by far worse than covid:

 

[pitabread]

If you are vaccinated, why would you be worried about getting the virus?

It's not just a case of personally contracting the virus. Having an unvaccinated population ensures the virus will continue to be transmitted and spread. And the greater the population of the virus that is allowed to continue also raises the risk of more variants rising and spreading (as we're seeing with the current Delta variant).

And there is still the fact that there are people who cannot get vaccines for legitimate reason (e.g. immunocompromised individuals), so the greater the proportion of unvaccinated population poses a greater risk to those individuals.

The bottom line is that when you live in a society and have a highly transmissible disease in the population, one person's choice can have consequences for others in that society.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

There's an epidemic, hadn't you noticed?

No....why was I not informed of the "cupcake epidemic"?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

It's not just a case of personally contracting the virus. Having an unvaccinated population ensures the virus will continue to be transmitted and spread. And the greater the population of the virus that is allowed to continue also raises the risk of more variants rising and spreading (as we're seeing with the current Delta variant).

And there is still the fact that there are people who cannot get vaccines for legitimate reason (e.g. immunocompromised individuals), so the greater the proportion of unvaccinated population poses a greater risk to those individuals.

The bottom line is that when you live in a society and have a highly transmissible disease in the population, one person's choice can have consequences for others in that society.

When the FDA fully approves a vaccine, I will get vaccinated.

 

[durangodawood]

Then you rack the slide and the other person starts their turn.

Its not "roulette" without the cylinder. You know, like the roulette wheel.

 

[pitabread]

Maybe your frustration could be reduced if you'd come to understand not all who might have reservations about these particular vaccines aren't necessarily opposed to vaccines in general. And where do you really see covid deniers that is from the standpoint that it doesn't exist. I'd say 99.9999 % of the population believe it exists but have different ways they think about it.

There appear to be gradients of Covid-19 denial. In another thread I talked with someone who said they don't think it's a big deal simply because they don't know anyone who contracted it. I think people in general are a poor judge of the relative individual risk and understanding of the risk to the broader population.

Insofar as vaccine hesitancy, there is a lot of misinformation circulating about the vaccines work and their relative safety. Even this thread has examples of that. I can understand how that may cause people concern, but it's frustrating to see people basing decisions on misinformation.

 

[cow451]

Well you've just acknowledged right there these people aren't total dopes. They've been around the block when it comes to being educated. So are you saying one should never allow to come to the forefront intelligent questions and concerns these people raise. And how do you know relatively educated people as you call them can't ever be right?

Your statements remind me of a Doctor I once had who got mad when I was offering potential opinions on what drugs for a certain condition I should be taking. He told me in a rather condescending way I shouldn't be seeking to diagnose my case. I stayed quite for a few minutes and let him carry on. I then asked, "Well what about Drug M I was reading that can have positive effects. He stared off into space contemplating what I was saying and replied, "Yes that might work!"

Well so much for a relatively educated person not being able to understand anything about his expertise and not being able to see things that maybe he hasn't considered.

And you act like the jury is all in when it comes to understanding the long term effects, if any of these vaccines. I think really educated people KNOW the jury isn't in yet. That's not to say there will be any long term negative effects but YOU DON'T KNOW that yet. So how do you know ones having reservations about these vaccines really are the dangerous ones. If there's shown to be long term complications that develop later on then I'm guessing you'd change your opinion to they really weren't that dangerous after all?

Medicine has always been and always will be a risk/benefit issue. As is most of life, for that matter. If you are waiting for the Nirvana of herd immunity, forget it. If you are waiting for the iron clad 100% guarantee for a vaccine, forget it. Any medicine, supplement, vaccine, etc. that has zero side effects, has zero effects aside from placebo.

Please, somebody, give the name of a medication or supplement that is 100% effective and has zero side effects. Please... name just one.

 

[cow451]

Its not "roulette" without the cylinder. You know, like the roulette wheel.

Well, if you gotta be technical and all....

 

[Jamdoc]

Which is why I am not getting vaccinated, not until I see long term outcomes and see a need.

Unless there are reports of serious side effects from Novavax, I will probably opt to go for that one because that particular vaccine methodology was specifically designed to minimize the occurrence of side effects from the original "Whole dead bacteria" Pertussis vaccine. So I trust that methodology more because it's old, well studied, and has few instances of problems. I'm not anti-vaxx, I'm just wary about something I see as being relatively untested.

"Untested"? Really?

Relative to other vaccines? Yes. It was given Emergency Use Authorization with no long term studies. Most other vaccines they studied the effects for several years before approving them, and they use methodologies we've had for decades. mRNA and Viral Vectors? No long term studies. Sure mRNA vaccines were studied in the 90's but those studies were dropped because of serious inflammatory reactions during animal testing. The change to a substituted uracil in the mRNA they use is a newer development that allowed them to get past animal testing.
1 year of testing is nothing when it can take years or decades for a health condition connected to a vaccine to rear its ugly head like a potential cancer.
Right now we're in the Donald Rumsfeld "unknown unknowns" zone with the newer methodologies.
Novavax and Sanofi are based on older techniques, so.. they're less likely to have problems.

Please do so.

I am, I'm immunocompromised as it is.
But I get the feeling you're not telling me this out of concern for me based on your other posts in this thread.

 

[cow451]

Unless there are reports of serious side effects from Novavax, I will probably opt to go for that one because that particular vaccine methodology was specifically designed to minimize the occurrence of side effects from the original "Whole dead bacteria" Pertussis vaccine. So I trust that methodology more because it's old, well studied, and has few instances of problems. I'm not anti-vaxx, I'm just wary about something I see as being relatively untested.



Relative to other vaccines? Yes. It was given Emergency Use Authorization with no long term studies. Most other vaccines they studied the effects for several years before approving them, and they use methodologies we've had for decades. mRNA and Viral Vectors? No long term studies. Sure mRNA vaccines were studied in the 90's but those studies were dropped because of serious inflammatory reactions during animal testing. The change to a substituted uracil in the mRNA they use is a newer development that allowed them to get past animal testing.
1 year of testing is nothing when it can take years or decades for a health condition connected to a vaccine to rear its ugly head like a potential cancer.
Right now we're in the Donald Rumsfeld "unknown unknowns" zone with the newer methodologies.
Novavax and Sanofi are based on older techniques, so.. they're less likely to have problems.


I am, I'm immunocompromised as it is.
But I get the feeling you're not telling me this out of concern for me based on your other posts in this thread.

Your reason for not getting vaccinated because of being immuno-compromised does have legitimacy. I would hope you are in consultation with your healthcare providers. That's entirely different than the people that have no real reason other than "stuff might happen" or some conspiratorial paranoid illogic.

Having been a child during the polio epidemic, my parents took the chance on the vaccine for me and the siblings. And that's the same here.