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Featured Does Doctrine play any role in Salvation?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jair Crawford, Mar 20, 2019.

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  1. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    All they need to know is that they are lost and going to the lake of fire, and that Jesus Christ died for their sins and gives them eternal life, so that they will NOT perish in the lake of fire.

    That's the doctrine that they need to know.
     
  2. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I said:
    "I claim the same salvation as found in the Bible. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is Messiah, and who died on the cross for all of my sins, and gives me eternal life for believing in Him for it.

    Do you agree or disagree with this statement?"
    Let's just leave out my "approval" in this. This is about God's plan, not mine.

    And I never said anything about "articulating" anything. I have been clear and focused on the FACT that one must believe in Christ for eternal life.

    You're going to need to expand on this silly statement.

    If by "doctrine" you refer to the rest of the Bible, then, sure.

    To the Savior. To the doctrine of salvation, which means how to be saved.
     
  3. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    These verses are clear enough. Those who haven't believed in Christ WILL BE condemned. Why can't a lost person understand that they will be condemned if they don't believe in Christ, who gives eternal life to those who believe in Him?
     
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    I didn't say there is no such thing as saving grace.
    I was objecting to your definition of it.
     
  5. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    Well, that's a very different definition than what you were describing earlier.
    And more to my liking.
     
  6. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    But you said something to the effect that if I didn't agree with you I wasn't saved.
     
  7. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    It is. But that is not what you said.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    2 aspects is a formula.
     
  9. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    This is exactly what you posted in #107:
    "I'm not sure there is any such thing as "saving faith"."

    So, an explanation is in order here.

    That's not what you posted.
     
  10. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I said nothing of the sort.
     
  11. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    How would they know that in advance of being saved?
     
  12. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    What became of your 2 aspects?
     
  13. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    That's only your definition of 'formula'.

    OK, so you disagree that saving faith is a formula (your definition, not mine). But I'll go with your definition.

    If saving faith doesn't include the 2 aspects that I gave, which of the 2 don't you agree with?
     
  14. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I said:
    " I hold every lost person responsible for understanding that God has revealed Himself in creation (Rom 1:19,20) and has no excuse for not being thankful to Him. And by such realization, I hold them responsible for seeking Him, per Acts 17:27.

    I also hold them responsible for accepting the gospel, as Titus 2:11 says."
    I think a review of the verses I shared is in order here. Since God HAS revealed Himself to everyone, no one has any excuse for not recognizing His existence.

    So, "in advance" of being saved, they have ALREADY BEEN SHOWN God's existence in creation. So, to answer your question, God already revealed His existence to them, IN ADVANCE of their believing in Christ.

    And Heb 11:6 explains who comes to God for salvation:

    And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
     
  15. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Correct doctrine essentially tells us truths about the nature and will of God. This is what Jesus came to reveal. We search for these truths in Scripture. People record them in creeds, confessions, catechisms, etc. The thief might've appreciated the same had he been given more opportunity with a longer life. As it is he did the best he could with what he was given: a compromised, hopeless situation, direct knowledge of Jesus-and grace.

    Anyway, doctrine simply means teaching; it seeks to give us what we need: the correct truths to believe in.
     
  16. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I said:
    "All they need to know is that they are lost and going to the lake of fire, and that Jesus Christ died for their sins and gives them eternal life, so that they will NOT perish in the lake of fire.

    That's the doctrine that they need to know."
    I didn't expect this to be so hard to understand.

    The 2 aspects are NECESSARY for faith in anything, whether a person or object.

    No one needs to have a conscious understanding of them. But they need to be there.

    Do you believe in the statement, "just have faith in faith", as a legitimate statement?

    I don't. There is no such thing as faith in faith. That elevates the act of trust apart from any object as valuable. So, how would it be valuable if there is no object?

    So, please explain how a person can be saved if they have neither the right object of faith or the right goal or purpose of faith.

    If a person turns on his TV and hears a prosperity preacher say "believe in Christ and you'll have a better ________ . You can fill in the blank; car, job, house, spouse, etc.

    Would this be saving faith, if a person believes that Jesus will give them whatever they put in the blank?
     
  17. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    Right. They don't have it, nor should we expect them to.
    That's my main point here. Doctrine is not needed (by the lost) to be saved.
     
  18. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    What I was responding to in your post was much more complicated than that.
     
  19. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    Is it a biblical term, or did you make it up?
    I said "I'm not sure there is any such thing..."
     
  20. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    Here's what you said, "Then I'm not sure you have salvation."
     
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