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Featured Does Doctrine play any role in Salvation?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jair Crawford, Mar 20, 2019.

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  1. Jair Crawford

    Jair Crawford Member

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    I wonder this, not to open up any excuses to ignore sound doctrine, by any means, but because so many different doctrines seem to be given this treatment among different denominations.

    Yet I keep going back to the thief on the cross. He didn’t have time to learn any of what we might call essential doctrines yet he got saved. He didn’t have any time to understand TULIP, get his end time theology in order, argue about spiritual gifts, worry about Pauline versus Jamesian view on faith and works; he simply knew Christ in his very spirit being and he was saved right there.

    Any thoughts?
     
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  2. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    God doesn't show favoritism.

    If someone who does not have the capacity to understand doctrines can be born again by the Holy Spirit, there's no need for any of the doctrines for salvation.

    What the carnal mind thinks doesn't matter.
     
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  3. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    My answer for this sort of thing is a rhetorical question: If doctrine doesn't matter, why does Sacred Scripture talk about doctrine?
     
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  4. Jair Crawford

    Jair Crawford Member

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    @Michael Collum That’s how I feel. You can have all the knowledge of correct doctrine in the world but if you don’t know Jesus, it is for nought.
     
  5. Jair Crawford

    Jair Crawford Member

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    That’s a good point. But we also have a very clear example in scripture where a man was saved without any teaching of doctrine. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter. And by no means should we forsake sound doctrine. But I wonder if we are too quick to put the cart before the horse? And how much of a role does it actually play in Salvation?
     
  6. Tigger45

    Tigger45 “That they may be one.” Supporter

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    Luke 23:39-43

    39 hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

    The thief on the cross was repentant and called on the name of the Lord.

    That’s plenty of doctrine right there.
     
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  7. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If the heart desires kinship with God, God will supply what's necessary for faith. Witness Peter being sent to Cornelius.

    Doctrine is merely truth for believers.

    It helps us to more faithfully model after Him ...
     
  8. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Survives on Coffee and Whiskey

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    Doctrine and salvation are related. Let's simplify things a bit...

    When God saves a person, he brings them into a right relationship with the truth. A saved person will ultimately come to believe true doctrine. This may take some time to develop. The first and most important bit of truth that God brings us in line with is: "Jesus is Lord", "I am a sinner", and "I need Jesus". The thief on the cross had at least that much. If he would have lived another 20 years he probably would have matured much more in the truth.

    Doctrinal truth is sanctification of the mind. Just like the thief on the cross was probably not sanctified in character when he got saved. Still, if he would have lived another 20 years, this sanctification would have certainly played itself out.

    Strictly speaking, our salvation is not dependent upon our grasp of truth. Rather, it is dependent upon Truth's grasp of us.
     
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  9. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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    Please elaborate.
     
  10. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    The trouble is that the reason why many don't get saved in our churches is that the preaching just pushes doctrine at them so that they get to know the Bible in the same way the devil does. He know more doctrine than we will ever know, but he will never be saved. Also, preaching against sin doesn't do much either, because the devil knows all about it and is convicted of it himself to the point of absolute misery and despair, and yet that does not bring him to salvation.

    It is preaching of Christ crucified and risen again in the power of the Holy Spirit, and the invitation to receive Christ that saves people. Doctrinal knowledge and understanding comes later.
     
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  11. Jair Crawford

    Jair Crawford Member

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    I was referring to the thief on the cross. Luke 23 as quoted above.

    @Tigger45 My point is that he didn’t have to be taught that. His spirit was stirred and he responded.
     
  12. The Righterzpen

    The Righterzpen Jesus is my Shield in any Desert or Storm

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    I think you pose a legitimate question here.

    In some 30 plus years of being a believer I've recently discovered that I tend to run into 3 different types of "Christians".

    1. Those of lots of emotion but little doctrinal understanding.
    2. Lots of sound doctrine but no love.
    3. People who are a good mix of both.

    I tend to gravitate toward category #3.

    Truth is, we are all held accountable not only to what we know; but what we are capable of grasping; all couched in the time frame we spend as redeemed people. Now obviously the thief on the cross didn't live long enough to learn proper doctrine. And likewise I know people who are intellectually disabled who have sound and solid faith; yet not the ability to grasp something like the doctrine of election. They very well may believe it; even if they can not explain it!

    But THEN there are those who "I've been a Christian for 50 years and I know Calvin was from Satan!" (LOL). People like that; I have to question (at the very least) their concept of who Christ actually was. The Spirit that leads us in all truth is not going to reveal something to person A and the total opposite to person B. Do we all understand it completely - of course not; but those who really are redeemed are all compelled to move in the same direction.

    So is it necessary for salvation. I would say no. Yet over the course of time; certain truths and understandings tend to manifest themselves in lives of believers.
     
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  13. Jair Crawford

    Jair Crawford Member

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    I think you just put my thoughts into words much better than I did.
     
  14. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Does doctrine play any role in salvation? I hope that it plays very little role, if any, or many of the people on CF might be in big trouble for clinging to bad doctrine.
     
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  15. TuxAme

    TuxAme Quis ut Deus? Supporter

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    If doctrine was unimportant, then God wouldn't have spent all the time that He did trying to set Israel straight, and Jesus wouldn't have spent three years of His life teaching. The fact that the Good Thief was saved despite not knowing everything that Jesus taught doesn't make it an ordinary means of salvation.
     
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  16. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

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    Without any teaching? He trusted that Jesus was coming into his kingdom and that he could be with him there. Which suggests that at one time or another (or possibly at more than one point in his life) the thief had been taught something.
     
  17. Tigger45

    Tigger45 “That they may be one.” Supporter

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    Could you elaborate on how you know the repentant thief on the cross wasn’t taught that? Scripture references would be great.
     
  18. Jair Crawford

    Jair Crawford Member

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    Sound doctrine IS important. I am not denying this. The question is, does sound doctrine save?
     
  19. Jair Crawford

    Jair Crawford Member

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    IIRC those are the only verses regarding the good thief. Please correct me if I am wrong though.
     
  20. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Jesus plus nothing! the naked gospel.
     
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