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Featured Does Doctrine play any role in Salvation?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jair Crawford, Mar 20, 2019.

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  1. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    Moses?
    "... The Faith exhibited by Moses..." ????

    Maybe you meant Abraham? Moses is NOT the father of faith.
     
  2. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    Jesus said he would be "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
    But he was laid in an above ground tomb. So, where did he go?

    Matthew 12:40
    For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Ephesians 4:8-10
    This is why it says:
    “When he ascended on high,
    he took many captives
    and gave gifts to his people.”
    9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions?
    10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
     
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  3. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    I agreed with your post up until the last sentence.
    Are you saying we can lose our relationship with Jesus based on doctrinal disagreements with others?
     
  4. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    A full seminary degree is required before salvation?
    Better pick the right school. That could be an expensive mistake. Right?
     
  5. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    That was my point. When someone adds "as best they could" muddies the waters.

    He believed savingly. It wasn't about doctrine. It was about the Person and work of Christ.

    Well, there's one example. But, yes, most people do need help in their unbelief. btw, the one example of a father concerned about his son did have faith, but he was weak in his faith.

    Of course.
     
  6. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Oh, great defense. How about this one:
    No where in Scripture is the word Trinity found.

    Here's the facts. Jesus went to Hades after His death, to "preach to the spirits in prison". Jesus gave us a conversation in Hades between Abraham (in Paradise) and a rich man (in torments).

    Therefore, both Paradise and torments are IN Hades.
     
  7. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    FreeGrace2 said:
    Soteriology is the doctrine of saving faith.
    To have salvation, you have to have saving faith.

    Then I'm not sure you have salvation.

    If you don't know, you do have a problem. You call yourself "Saint Steven" and identify as a "Christian" and you don't understand these things??

    The Bible repeatedly says those who believe are saved. That was Paul's answer to the jailer who specifically asked what he MUST DO to be saved. Do you have a different idea about how to be saved?

    When "faith" is used as a noun, it refers to the "body of information" as found in the Bible. When used as a verb, it refers to accepting as true what is found in the Bible.

    So, saving faith is believing what the Bible says, specifically about Jesus Christ and salvation.

    Saving faith, like all 'faith', requires 2 aspects.

    1. object. In saving faith, the object is the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who died on a cross for your (personal) sins.

    2. goal or purpose. In saving faith, the goal or purpose of putting your full trust (belief) in the Lord Jesus Christ is to receive the gift of eternal life and be saved.

    If either of these 2 aspects is different than above, you do not have saving faith, and you are not saved.

    Maybe you are totally wrong. Actually, you ARE totally wrong.

    I claim the same salvation as found in the Bible. Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is Messiah, and who died on the cross for all of my sins, and gives me eternal life for believing in Him for it.

    Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

    Those who have NEVER believed are the ones who will be condemned.

    John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

    2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

    Saving faith is believing in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  8. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    Careful. That's very close to a punishable offense around here.
     
  9. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    Did the thief on the cross know?
     
  10. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    I understand just fine.
    But I think I disagree with your take on it. That's all.
    Does disagreeing with you revoke my salvation?
     
  11. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    My comment was based on what YOU SAID.

    If there is no such thing as saving faith, then there is no salvation in that viewpoint.

    Simple as that.
     
  12. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    He knew who Jesus was; the Messiah, who was returning to His kingdom. He had saving faith.
     
  13. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    No. I believe that those who believe are saved.
    But you seem to be insisting on a specific "formula" that must be followed or it doesn't work. That's what I am objecting to.
     
  14. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I laid out what saving faith is and means. You tell me.

    btw, salvation cannot be revoked.

    Rom 11:29 - for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

    Eternal life is a gift of God.

    Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
     
  15. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    And you hold a lost person responsible to know all that before they can be saved?
     
  16. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    I think this information should be used by the one leading someone to Christ. A lost individual wanting to deal with the conviction they feel needs to be led to Christ. They know nothing of doctrine typically.
     
  17. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Why isn't that saving faith to you?

    Where did I present any "formula". I explained what saving faith requires. Which of the 2 aspects do you object to?
     
  18. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    A lost person cannot articulate this to meet your approval.
    You have completely lost touch with the state of the lost.
    They will get their doctrine ironed out later.
    Initially they need to be led by the hand.
     
  19. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    FreeGrace2 said:
    When "faith" is used as a noun, it refers to the "body of information" as found in the Bible.
    No. That would be ridiculous. I hold every lost person responsible for understanding that God has revealed Himself in creation (Rom 1:19,20) and has no excuse for not being thankful to Him. And by such realization, I hold them responsible for seeking Him, per Acts 17:27.

    I also hold them responsible for accepting the gospel, as Titus 2:11 says.
     
  20. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve

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    A lost person does not fully grasp any of this.
     
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