Was Ceremonial Law Abolished?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That apparently are lifted so long as you do good

Depends, but yes. To save a life, yes. Things like that.

 

[Andrewn]

Nonsense!
Did you just make that up?

I'll explain Paul's nazirite vow if someone else asks for an explanation. You don't deserve an answer except the sign of the prophet Jonah. Try to offer your abominations! But God will not allow it.

 

[DamianWarS]

Depends, but yes. To save a life, yes. Things like that.

When is good not good? Of course the concept of "saving" is more abstract in the NT. It may involve helping your neighbour to dig a trench.

 

[Hawkins]

Nothing needs to be abolished. God refuses to receive the same sacrifice in OT by removing the Temple itself.

 

[not under law]

This is an interesting verse:
Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offence of the cross has been abolished Gal5:11

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Yahshua said:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

After Yahshua ascended, James, Yahshua's brother, ordered Paul to make temple sacrifices to prove that he was obedient to the Torah.

(CLV) Ac 21:23
This, then, which we are saying to you, do. With us are four men having a vow on them.

(CLV) Ac 21:24
Taking these along, be purified together with them, and bear their expenses, that they should be shaving their heads, and all will know that what they have been instructed concerning you is nothing, but you also are observing the elements and you yourself are maintaining the law.

Purify G48

ἁγνίζω hagnízō, hag-nid'-zo; from G53; to make clean, i.e. (figuratively) sanctify (ceremonially or morally):—purify (self).


I. ceremonially

A. to make pure, purify, cleanse

II. morally

G48 - hagnizō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)

Acts 16:1-3
Paul came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was Jewish and a believer but whose father was a Greek. 2 The believers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. 3 Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.

Galations 5:2-4:
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

What I am illustrating with these passages is that as the Gospel went out measures were taken by some apostles (adherence to the LAW), as recorded, so as not to offend the Jews while bringing them the message. The apostles might otherwise have been dismissed out of hand before the full message of Christ was taught among them.

Paul explains his Actions...

I Corinthians 9:21-23:
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

The O.T. LAW is now Dead in letter and fulfilled by us in spirit...

Romans 3:27-31:
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

A new Covenant...

Hebrews 8:7-9:
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

 

[not under law]

I don't expect anyone to follow YHWH. I just call them to his word. It's nothing but a new creation. If you think that a new creation is nothing; then we have nothing more to talk about.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised,Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Gal5:1-6

 

[DamianWarS]

Then help me...define fulfill? What does it mean using different words... to fulfill the law? Thanks in advance.

Sure, you have a bucket and you fill that bucket up. The bucket can be said it is fulfilled (because the purpose of the bucket is met and you can't fill it up more). To abolish the bucket would be to render the bucket useless and devalue it in some way. Perhaps you kick it it over, remove the bottom or just throw it away. They both have a similar results in that you can no longer fill the bucket up more.

You're comparing this result but stripped of its context and judging that they are too much a like so must be wrong. So you force another interpretation concluding "fulfilled" must mean something else (perhaps "abolished" means something else). But a kicked over bucket and a full bucket are very different as one has value and the other does not; a difference that you miss in your over simplification of the text. I do not view the law as a kicked over bucket and the very suggestion is insulting.

 

[expos4ever]

Yes the Torah is written on our hearts. What man could not obey in the flesh fashioned out of tablets of stone, he is now able to obey from the heart made possible through the indwelling Spirit. However, it is important to note that the law is not annulled but is "established" in our hearts. The law still exists - written in the heart of the believer.

This whole issue of what it means to say that the Law is "written on our hearts" is one of the many subtle questions that makes this whole issue so difficult. As you probably know, I believe the overall scriptural picture points to the Law being "retired", set aside, completed. What, exactly, do you (and others) mean by saying the Law is written on our hearts?

One view that I think has to be wrong is this - that we essentially just memorize the list of 613 elements of the law. That would be, frankly, silly.

My view is this: we have been given the Holy Spirit to guide us. If that means anything at all, surely it means that we do not to consult the Law of Moses for any guidance. Loosely speaking, the "spirit" of the Law of Moses - its underlying principles, as it were - are indeed written on our hearts. So we do not really need the Law anymore.

 

[HARK!]

Nature. After Adam sinned we were born with a sin nature. That is what Jesus came to cure. The sin in our nature. That is the whole reason for being born again of the Spirit. We are a new creation. Jesus condemned sin in the flesh. In other words, He took sin out of our nature. This is also why even though Jesus was a man, He had the seed of God in Him. Resisting temptation was easy for Him, and He made it easy for us. That is the reason for 1 John 3:9.

So if you no longer want to sin, and don't, is the law still necessary for you? It is why those who walk in the Spirit (this new nature) are not under the law.

Yes, the law is the nature of YHWH. If we are sons of YHWH; the law is our nature. We walk in the law; therefore the law is our master, not sin.

What day are you honoring Pesach?

 

[HARK!]

Yes. The law was fulfilled by Jesus and no need to shave heads, rip your clothes, stone prostitutes to death, or any of that. Just accept forgiveness through Jesus.

Walk in the law through Yahshua.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

 

[HARK!]

James 5:15
And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

(CLV) Ja 2:21
Abraham, our father, was he not justified by works when offering up his son Isaac on the altar?

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

 

[HARK!]

Christ is the fulfilment of the law. All rituals, ceremonies, sacrifices and feasts, are types and shadows, and he is the fulfilment of those types and shadows.

Then why will they be practiced in the Kingdom to come.

By the way, the fall feasts have not been fulfilled. These are standing appointments with YHWH, forever, as it is written.

 

[not under law]

This whole issue of what it means to say that the Law is "written on our hearts" is one of the many subtle questions that makes this whole issue so difficult. As you probably know, I believe the overall scriptural picture points to the Law being "retired", set aside, completed. What, exactly, do you (and others) mean by saying the Law is written on our hearts?

If the law is in your heart, you in your heart do not want to murder, steal, take the Lords name in vain, commit adultery etc.
When we think of 'law' we always think of it as having two parts, the law itself that is to be obeyed, and the attached penalty for transgression of it. The believer has what is holy, just and good in their hearts(what is written in the law), but the penalty for transgression has been paid by Christ. So although the law is within us, it is not law as we would naturally think of law(if that makes sense) for it is law without the penalty for transgression of it. As you in your heart want to obey, that cannot result in a licence to sin. So law as we all naturally understand law to mean has been retired, but what is written in that law has not:
This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”

17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.(because Jesus died for our sins)

Heb10:16&17

 

[HARK!]

Nothing needs to be abolished. God refuses to receive the same sacrifice in OT by removing the Temple itself.

Why will the Levitical Priesthood be making sacrifices in the Kingdom to come?

 

[HARK!]

This is an interesting verse:
Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offence of the cross has been abolished Gal5:11

That is an interesting verse. Here's how the CLV renders it:

(CLV) Ga 5:11
Now I, brethren, if I am still heralding circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? Consequently the snare of the cross of Christ has been nullified.

 

[HARK!]

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised,Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Gal5:1-6

The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love

Do you understand what this means? Circumcision means nothing more than Baptism. It's an outward expression of faith. If you don't have faith in YHWH; and you think that you can save yourself by saying some magic words, and jumping in the water; you're lost.

What is love?

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) Ja 2:21
Abraham, our father, was he not justified by works when offering up his son Isaac on the altar?

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

 

[HARK!]

Acts 16:1-3
Paul came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was Jewish and a believer but whose father was a Greek. 2 The believers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. 3 Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.

Galations 5:2-4:
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

What I am illustrating with these passages is that as the Gospel went out measures were taken by some apostles (adherence to the LAW), as recorded, so as not to offend the Jews while bringing them the message. The apostles might otherwise have been dismissed out of hand before the full message of Christ was taught among them.

No, what you are illustrating is that you consider Paul to be a hypocrite.

Paul explains his Actions...

I Corinthians 9:21-23:
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

This is a completely different letter, to a different church, at a different time, over a different incident, in a different context.

Excerpt: Paul on the Law: 1 Corinthians 9
21 to those without law as without law (not being without God's law, but legally (εννομος) Christ's), that I should be gaining those without law.

"Not being without," is a double negative. Paul is with YHWH's Law.

22 I became as weak to the weak, that I should be gaining the weak. To all have I become all, that I should undoubtedly be saving some.

Apart from the Judaeans the nations didn't even have the Torah
That said, just a few verses prior in this letter; Paul makes mention of the Torah:

Some misunderstand this passage.Paul was not a lawless crowd pleaser.

(CLV) Ga 1:10
For, at present, am I persuading men or God? Or am I seeking to please men? If I still pleased men, I were not a slave of Christ.

Acts 17:22-31 is an example of how Paul would put this behavior into practice.

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

Romans 3:27-31:
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith. 28 For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

A new Covenant...

Hebrews 8:7-9:
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:

“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.

Why did you stop short of him completing his quote of Jeremiah?

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

No, what you are illustrating is that you consider Paul to be a hypocrite.



This is a completely different letter, to a different church, at a different time, over a different incident, in a different context.

Excerpt: Paul on the Law: 1 Corinthians 9
21 to those without law as without law (not being without God's law, but legally (εννομος) Christ's), that I should be gaining those without law.

"Not being without," is a double negative. Paul is with YHWH's Law.

22 I became as weak to the weak, that I should be gaining the weak. To all have I become all, that I should undoubtedly be saving some.

Apart from the Judaeans the nations didn't even have the Torah
That said, just a few verses prior in this letter; Paul makes mention of the Torah:

Some misunderstand this passage.Paul was not a lawless crowd pleaser.

(CLV) Ga 1:10
For, at present, am I persuading men or God? Or am I seeking to please men? If I still pleased men, I were not a slave of Christ.

Acts 17:22-31 is an example of how Paul would put this behavior into practice.

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.





Why did you stop short of him completing his quote of Jeremiah?

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

You have amny points for me to re-address and I will try to find time to do so.
Start with I Corinthians 9:21:
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. --NIV 2011
God's Law here and in this space and time is Christ's Law which is the Good News of the Gospel of Christ.

What is Christ's Law? Romans says we worship in the New Way (Christ's Law) which is according to the Spirit, the way of love...acts prompted by love and not by works required by OT LAW. We fulfill the commandments by our works prompted by love and the Holy Spirit.
Romans 7:6:
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

 

[not under law]

The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love

Do you understand what this means? Circumcision means nothing more than Baptism. It's an outward expression of faith. If you don't have faith in YHWH; and you think that you can save yourself by saying some magic words, and jumping in the water; you're lost.

What is love?

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) Ja 2:21
Abraham, our father, was he not justified by works when offering up his son Isaac on the altar?

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised,Christ will be of no value to you at all.