A simple fix for the Transgender issue.

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,614
Utah
✟713,703.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
My suggestion does not prevent people from identifying with various genders, I'm just saying they should not assume a stranger is referring to their sex not their gender when addressed, and public facilities is in reference to their sex, not their gender when they wish to use.

yeah, I understand where you are coming from .... however ... but that's not what is happening. You can't control what a person thinks, but one can control what they say. You can't presume what someone is thinking about their gender/sex.
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
When people have a gender reassignment surgery, what do you suppose it is that they're changing? They don't undergo a surgery to change perceived societal roles. They undergo surgery in order to artificially "become" a different biological sex.
That is extremely rare. According to the “American Society of Plastic Surgeons”, 0.5% of gender reassignment surgery involves changing sex organs. IOW 99.5% of what they call gender reassignment surgery it is changing the face or other features to look more like something they are not.

More people are getting ‘sex change’ surgeries than ever before … but it’s not what you think
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
yeah, I understand where you are coming from .... however ... but that's not what is happening. You can't control what a person thinks, but one can control what they say. You can't presume what someone is thinking about their gender/sex.
It doesn't matter what they think, it matters what they say; and when they say he or she, they are referring to sex not gender. When they say mens room, or women's room, they are referring to sex not gender
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
What places do that? I mean, single occupant bathrooms obviously have to be coed, but large public bathrooms I've never seen.
This is a multi-stall gender neutral public restroom. I've even seen some like that where each stall has their own ADA compliant sink as well (this one has a shared public sink). This is also helpful for people in wheel chairs, and people with young children that are opposite of their gender. It answers a lot of needs:

220px-2016.11.03_All_Gender_Restroom%2C_Federal_Reserve_Bank_San_Francisco%2C_CA_USA_08620_%2830452133290%29.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Belk
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,614
Utah
✟713,703.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
If it is disrespectful to call somebody a name to their face, it is just as disrespectful to do it behind their back.

name-call·ing
/ˈnām ˌkôliNG/
noun
  1. abusive language or insults.
not name calling when a person reports something to the police of what they saw or heard etc. as long as they are not abusive or insulting about it.
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
name-call·ing
/ˈnām ˌkôliNG/
noun
  1. abusive language or insults.
not name calling when a person reports something to the police of what they saw or heard etc. as long as they are not abusive or insulting about it.
If that were the case, there should be nothing wrong with "mis-gendering" someone as long as they aren't abusive or insulting about it.
 
Upvote 0

SistrNChrist

Newbie
Aug 17, 2006
345
127
41
NYC
✟30,387.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
When dealing with strangers, how is that different? A couple weeks ago someone died in the hospital; a biological woman who identifies as a man went to the hospital with stomach issues. She listed her sex as male so they did not do a pregnancy test on her (which would have shown her problem) and instead did tests that would be done on a man and the person died as a result.
Other than when biology is important, I don’t see how men and women should be treated differently, do you?
Now that's an instance where the sex you were born with matters, because if you say you're a different gender/sex than the one you were born with, I can't think of too many doctors who would automatically assume you're transgender and treat you for gender specific causes, like pregnancy/miscarriage or prostate cancer
 
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,430.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
In the extremely rare situation that chromosomes and sex organs do not align? An exception can be made for them.

This is generally what is called intersexual.

A service veteran, who had always been considered male, had to have a CT scan of his torso. It was discovered that he had a uterus and non-functioning ovaries. Is he a man or a woman?

A 19 year old college girl still had not started her periods, though externally she was a beautiful young woman. Medical examination revealed she was XY, the male genotype. Is she a man or a woman?
According to the laws of her state, she was a man.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Pommer
Upvote 0

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 14, 2015
6,132
3,089
✟405,713.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How about if we just don’t address it? When referring to men vs women, when deciding which public restroom or shower facility to use, when unsure to call someone a ma'am or sir, instead of assuming gender, why not just assume sex? The difference? Sex refers to biology, (XX vs XY chromosomes, sex organs, etc) where as gender refers to perceived social roles based on sex.

When I speak to people, if I use the pronoun he or she, I’m referring to their sex not their gender. I’m making an assumption of their biology, not whatever confusion they might have going on inside of their heads. If a biological woman identifies as a man, she shouldn’t assume I am addressing her identification when I call her she, this woman should assume I am referring to her biology.

Does this make sense? Your thoughts?

Ken
I agree with using the pronouns attached to their biological sex. I absolutely refuse to make any more compromises to the progressive agenda...period. Can you believe it has gotten to the point where you could will be labeled a "transphobic bigot" because you would refuse to date a transgender?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tanj

Redefined comfortable middle class
Mar 31, 2017
7,682
8,316
59
Australia
✟277,286.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
How about if we just don’t address it? When referring to men vs women, when deciding which public restroom or shower facility to use, when unsure to call someone a ma'am or sir, instead of assuming gender, why not just assume sex? The difference? Sex refers to biology, (XX vs XY chromosomes, sex organs, etc) where as gender refers to perceived social roles based on sex.

When I speak to people, if I use the pronoun he or she, I’m referring to their sex not their gender. I’m making an assumption of their biology, not whatever confusion they might have going on inside of their heads. If a biological woman identifies as a man, she shouldn’t assume I am addressing her identification when I call her she, this woman should assume I am referring to her biology.

Does this make sense? Your thoughts?

Ken

How do tell if it's a he or a she? What do you do with XXY and similar people?

At the moment my thoughts are this is really silly and unhelpful.
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
How do tell if it's a he or a she?
Unless you know them, most will just go by appearance.
What do you do with XXY and similar people?
As was pointed out before, the correct terminology for these people is actually "intersexual". For these extremely rare situations, an exception can be made. But that is not where the problem lies; the people complaining about gender identity are biological men and biological women claiming to identify as something else. It seems to me if we take the mental confusion out of the picture and stick with biology, it fixes the problem.
At the moment my thoughts are this is really silly and unhelpful.
Why do you see it as silly and unhelpful?
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
When I speak to people, if I use the pronoun he or she, I’m referring to their sex not their gender. I’m making an assumption of their biology, not whatever confusion they might have going on inside of their heads. If a biological woman identifies as a man, she shouldn’t assume I am addressing her identification when I call her she, this woman should assume I am referring to her biology.

Does this make sense? Your thoughts?

Ken
It probably does make sense, Ken, but that approach has already relegated to the ash-heap.

You cannot just do that since it will make someone within hearing distance "uncomfortable". As we all are supposed to know, not being made uncomfortable is the most basic of human rights, depending of course on whether youre in one of the oppressed or one of the oppressor classes. :rolleyes:
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
It seems to me if we take the mental confusion out of the picture and stick with biology, it fixes the problem.
Chromosomes are biology.

Certain things can't be seen, so we shouldn't presume (and - in a polite conversation - it seems as if what you'd like as an identifier, shouldn't been seen either).
 
Upvote 0

Tanj

Redefined comfortable middle class
Mar 31, 2017
7,682
8,316
59
Australia
✟277,286.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Unless you know them, most will just go by appearance.

So...no way at all of knowing then, and you're going to use he or she based on what someone looks like.

Nice one. :oldthumbsup:

As was pointed out before, the correct terminology for these people is actually "intersexual". For these extremely rare situations

How rare is that?, I mean, all I do is work in a pediatric hospital. I'm sure you are far more familiar with the issue.

an exception can be made.

Well aren't you the magnanimous overlord. Pray tell, how does one find out about somone's intersex problem so that one can make the exception? Perhaps a yellow star worn on their shirt?

But that is not where the problem lies

Indeed, the problem lies with close minded bigots who feel the loss of their Christian white privilege and are desperately lashing out at a group they can tell what to do.

the people complaining about gender identity are biological men and biological women claiming to identify as something else. It seems to me if we take the mental confusion out of the picture and stick with biology, it fixes the problem.

Take opinions like yours out of the picture also fixes the problem, given the attitude you represent is the entirety of the problem.

Why do you see it as silly and unhelpful?

See above post.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Chromosomes are biology.

Certain things can't be seen, so we shouldn't presume (and - in a polite conversation - it seems as if what you'd like as an identifier, shouldn't been seen either).

A person who suffers from Gender Dysphoria Disorder knows if they are a biological male or female. If still confused, all they gotta do is check their underwear. If someone refers to them as “She” and this person has female sex organs, they have no reason to be offended because they are a biological “she” regardless of whatever they might be having going on in their heads. Where is the problem here?
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,790
✟225,690.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
So...no way at all of knowing then, and you're going to use he or she based on what someone looks like.
Yes. If you look like a biological male, they shouldn’t be surprised if someone refers to them as a biological male. You know; the ole "looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" thing.

How rare is that?, I mean, all I do is work in a pediatric hospital. I'm sure you are far more familiar with the issue.
So you know how rare it is, what's your point?

Well aren't you the magnanimous overlord. Pray tell, how does one find out about somone's intersex problem so that one can make the exception? Perhaps a yellow star worn on their shirt?
Intersexual people are not the ones raising a fuss. However If one did, it is up to them to tell people.

Indeed, the problem lies with close minded bigots who feel the loss of their Christian white privilege and are desperately lashing out at a group they can tell what to do.
White Christian? Speaking of bigotry, is that a racist and religious slant? What do white christians have to do with the points I’ve raised?
Take opinions like yours out of the picture also fixes the problem, given the attitude you represent is the entirety of the problem.
Oh so you attack me now? If the best you can do in response to a statement is to insult or mock the poster, addressing the person instead of the statement, you have already lost the argument.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,478
18,456
Orlando, Florida
✟1,249,465.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
This is generally what is called intersexual.

A service veteran, who had always been considered male, had to have a CT scan of his torso. It was discovered that he had a uterus and non-functioning ovaries. Is he a man or a woman?

A 19 year old college girl still had not started her periods, though externally she was a beautiful young woman. Medical examination revealed she was XY, the male genotype. Is she a man or a woman?
According to the laws of her state, she was a man.

I could see how anti-trans rhetoric/ideology could be very damaging to those sorts of people... especially because they've just undergone a major shock in their life. Obviously, people in those sorts of circumstances deserve our love and support.

It's funny that today's epistle reading at church said that in Christ there is no "male or female", yet many here seem to not consider the full implications of that. Every human being deserves our respect, regardless of their gender identity.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Tanj

Redefined comfortable middle class
Mar 31, 2017
7,682
8,316
59
Australia
✟277,286.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Oh so you attack me now? If the best you can do in response to a statement is to insult or mock the poster, addressing the person instead of the statement, you have already lost the argument.

Your whole point to this thread is to attack and mock a vulnerable minority in our society, for the sole purpose of what, exactly? Seriously, why do you care? Some poor soul out there born as one gender but identifies as another, why oh why do you feel the need to make such a fuss about it?

You lost the "argument" the moment you made it.
 
Upvote 0