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A simple fix for the Transgender issue.

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by Ken-1122, Jun 23, 2019.

  1. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    How is my suggestion an attack?
    It seems like such a logical fix to a problem that many people are dealing with. Again; why do you have a problem with my idea?
     
  2. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    Because none that is a part of the community you are talking about agrees with it, there's no way to enforce it, the main point of the "fix" seems to be just use a pronoun you think is correct based on what people look like, and you have no solution for people with genetic lesions, beyond them running around letting everyone know about their disease.

    Can you come up with a single reason why anyone would support it? It's the least logical fix I have seen in my entire history of exposure to logical fixes.
     
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  3. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    What do you call these?? They don't just think they are half male and half female---I had a cat that was both also. The whole of nature is being changed from the very DNA--the result of sin--as in the days of Noah.

    [​IMG]
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  4. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sounds good to me. I assure you some will pitch a fit over it, but it would make things a lot easier.
     
  5. ToddNotTodd

    ToddNotTodd Iconoclast

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    Hypothetical: you see someone dressed like a woman, but who seems, to you, somewhat like a man. Hairy arms, deep-ish voice. Let’s say you call this person sir. They respond that they are a woman. Would you continue to call them sir even after they’ve corrected you?
     
  6. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Describe such a person as best you can ... just as you would now.
     
  7. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think that you have no choice but to address people as they represent themselves. For one thing, ... in your example, ... you may actually be addressing a woman, ... and are running the risk of continuing to be horribly rude to her.

    The point is ... this is an area where we must trust individuals ... because they are the people who have definitive knowledge on the subject.
     
  8. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And they're the ONLY AUTHORITY on the matter.

    You are guessing, at best.

    You really have no choice but to trust their judgement, lest you offend a man you deem as feminine ... or a woman you deem as masculine ...
     
  9. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    I'm curious if this also applies to other ways people self-identify. For example, can we just randomly assume people look like they have certain religious beliefs and refuse to be corrected on those assumptions? Heck, that's a big enough problem to be against the rules here, and yet look at all the support it has when you change which particular trait is being identified.
     
  10. PreviouslySeeking...

    PreviouslySeeking... Well-Known Member

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    I address people as they wish to be addressed, period. If I don't know them & their presentation is confusing, I start with "Excuse me".

    I don't find it to be an issue. I'm over 40, I live in Seattle, work in a creative field, engage in certain alternative activities and I don't know anyone who is transgender. They are less than 1% of the population.

    That said, were I to meet someone who wanted me to use convoluted pronouns such as "xe", I would only deal with them in a professional sense. I'm not inviting that level of difficulty into my personal life.

    But generally speaking, this isn't an issue.
     
  11. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Laws are not only for the minority, they are for the majority as well. Right now you have laws that recognize people according to their gender rather than sex. Gender is a complete social construct; it is subjective not based on any type of science, varies from person to person, and only exists in your head.
    Sex is objective, it is based on biology, it applies to everybody and is based on reality. I believe it is better to recognize people based on reality rather than imagination.

    to base male/female on biology rather than imagination does not require enforcement, or any of those other absurdities you mentioned.

    Why would anyone want to support it? Because it is a better system than what we have now. Right now we have a small minority of delusional people who are insisting everybody else participate in their delusions with them, and this has resulted in men having access to women's public restroom, and shower facilities, boys who want to see a little T&A having access to the girls room knowing they will not be questioned, and biological guys participating in female sports and winning. If we identify people on sex rather than gender all of that goes away. Sex is based on science and reality, gender is subjective based on ideas, prejustices, and that which exist in your head; IOW gender is fabrication, sex is not.
    I know there is nothing I can say to make you see it my way, and visa versa; perhaps this is something we can just agree to disagree on.
     
  12. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Why would I do something like that? My suggestion is not going to stop people from being rude, nothing can do that
     
  13. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    No, right now if a man robbed me, I would not say a "person" robbed me, I would say a man robbed me.
     
  14. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    Of course! Why would you assume I would not?
     
  15. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    They have gender dysphoria, which means yes, their brains disagree with their “own biology,” casing them to feel like the opposite gender despite what genitals they were born with.
     
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  16. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    Can I suggest you do some reading on yuans gender people and gender dysphoria? There are lots of resources out there.
     
  17. Sparagmos

    Sparagmos Well-Known Member

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    It is the same problem you would have if you woke up one day with the body of a woman, but still felt that you are a man.
     
  18. gaara4158

    gaara4158 I prefer you trust your reason.

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    But their whole point is that you’re not seeing someone’s sex when you observe their overall “look,” you’re seeing their gender. I mean unless you’ve seen their genitals I don’t know why they’d expect you to know their biological sex, especially if their gender expression is contradictory or androgynous.
     
  19. Tanj

    Tanj Redefined comfortable middle class

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    What the heck are you talking about now? What laws? There's no laws regarding what pronouns are used where.

    So what? Wearing clothes is a social construct. Not wearing a tie over a jumper is a social construct. Eating with implements is a social construct. Our lives are dominated by them. Also, what the heck does that have to do with anything?

    No, you think it's better to recognise people on what you think they look like. You said as much a few posts ago, here, let me remind you:

    Talking to people is a social not biological construct. It should follow social ettiquette.


    It is utterly the worst idea anyone has ever come up with in this area.

    Ahh, so it's actually all about the toilets. Thought that might be the case. How does calling someone he or she affect which toilet they use? Or are you putting your hand up for toilet police as well as pronoun police?

    More importantly, why do you think the dark fantasies that live in your head are reality? You show me a single instance ever in the last 200 years where a man has stood up and announced he's a woman for the purpose of getting into a female public toilet. And that goes double for boys. You show me a single boy that has told his family and friends he's a girl so that he can get into the girls toilet.

    I mean seriously, it's even sillier than your pronoun police idea.

    Now that's an issue I agree is actually an issue. Want to know what isn't a solution? You deciding what pronouns we use.

    Then we throw away 4000 years of social interaction. How very doubleplusgood of you.

    Sure, but for as long as the way you see it involves direct emotional harm to vulnerable members of our society, I'll continue to call you on it.
     
  20. Ken-1122

    Ken-1122 Newbie

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    What does that mean? I've never had that explained to me; what does it mean to feel like a man, or to feel like a woman?
     
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