Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

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Major1

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I KNOW you don't understand.
All the promises of God to His people are for protection, not removal. 1 Thess 1:10 says 'delivers', from the Greek 'ruomenon', is better rendered as 'rescued from. This in no way proves or even infers a removal from the earth. In this event, the Lord's Day of wrath, Those who call upon His Name will be protected. Acts 2:21, 2 Peter 2:9
Later in Revelation 12, the Lord takes His Christian people to a place of safety, we living humans never go to heaven.

Prefer to believe the commentators, do you? I rejected the opinions of men years ago.
OK, where in that verse is heaven mentioned? Or anywhere in that chapter, but earth is, the first 3 verses set the scene.
I have several times posted how God's Throne has been seen from the earth. Ezekiel 1:1, Acts 8:56 As a Spiritual concept, God, His Throne and heaven are anywhere and everywhere to us.

This statement contradicts many scriptures, a veritable mountain of errors! Not to mention the grammatical ones!

Agreed. I can read the Bible as well as any other person can. I have been to school just as have other men and women have. I only posted those men to show you that your personal opinions are very much in the minority and most all educated Bible scholars do not agree with your opinions.

Your inability to grasp the obvious is the reason why your theology is so wrong.

The actual words say......
"And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God".

You are correct in that the 1st 8 verses of Rev. 7 are an "earthly scene".
However, your inability to accept what is actually written instead of what YOU want it to say does not allow you to understand that the scene changes in verse #9.

" After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands."

How in the world can you miss this???? Easy, because you want to.
 
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Psalm3704

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Not surprised you missed my point which had nothing to do with pre or post.


I was challenging your statement of doubt and unbelief. Not very good advice to sarcastically question whether or not anyone should call on the Lord at any time. God is a God of miracles and just because someone wants to chop your head does not mean you would waste your time as you seem to imply, by calling on the Lord.

No, I know exactly what you were doing. You're opening your mouth again either without reading in advance or lacking knowledge of what was written.

I said in post#1137, to call upon the name of the Lord to be save means you'll be spiritually saved, not physically saved in the tribulation.

Acts 2:21 means to be saved from a spiritual death, not a physical death, Mr. born-yesterday.

Acts 2:21 New King James Version (NKJV)
And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’
You seem to think that by calling upon the Lord in Acts 2:21, the sword will turn to rubber.

The bible refutes your nonsense. If you were meant to die by the sword, you will die by the sword. No rubber swords here, O'foolish one.

Revelation 13:10Good News Translation (GNT)
Whoever is meant to be captured will surely be captured; whoever is meant to be killed by the sword will surely be killed by the sword. This calls for endurance and faith on the part of God's people.”

Having faith by calling upon the Lord doesn't mean the sword will turn to rubber. It means you'll be resurrected and reign with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 Good News Translation (GNT)
Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given the power to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been executed because they had proclaimed the truth that Jesus revealed and the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image, nor had they received the mark of the beast on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and ruled as kings with Christ for a thousand years.

Post-tribbers will say just about anything to make their version of the rapture work. Again, Acts 2:21 means to be save spiritually, not physically. Hebrews 11:35 supports my argument.








.
 
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Major1

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Psalm3704 said:

Try calling upon the Lord when you're about to be beheaded by the a/c in the tribulation and see if that'll prevent you from getting your head chopped off. Revelation 20:4.



I wouldn’t rule out calling on the Lord at a time like that, if God has a purpose for your life, that sword just might turn to rubber in the executioners hand. Then again you might lose your head and go to be with Christ.


Hebrews 11:35


Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And the Word of God does not say that does it????

We can want it to say that. I wish that it said that. But alas it does not say that if a believer in those days calls on the Lord he will be miracousely saved from the death of the A/C 's persecution.

Can God do that? Of course He can. Has He done that? Of course He has.

But what does the actual words say?

Rev.9:18....
"A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths."

Rev. 13:7.....
" It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. "

Rev. 11:7..........
"When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them."
 
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Major1

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Not surprised you missed my point which had nothing to do with pre or post.


I was challenging your statement of doubt and unbelief. Not very good advice to sarcastically question whether or not anyone should call on the Lord at any time. God is a God of miracles and just because someone wants to chop your head does not mean you would waste your time as you seem to imply, by calling on the Lord.

It also means that you do not bring a knife to a gun fight my friend.
 
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Major1

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Thank You Major1.

NO......Thank you my brother! It is a real blessing to have someone else debate these fine "post-tribulation....Rapture rejecting brothers.

You are doing wonderful in getting out the Word of God! Keep up the good work.
 
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Major1

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Doesn't matter what translation you use. whether if it's "deliver" or "rescue" from the wrath to come, both refutes a post-trib rapture.

---------------------------------------------------

Acts 2:21 means to be saved from a spiritual death, not a physical death, Mr. born-yesterday.

Acts 2:21 New King James Version (NKJV)
And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’

Try calling upon the Lord when you're about to be beheaded by the a/c in the tribulation and see if that'll prevent you from getting your head chopped off. Revelation 20:4.

-------------------------------------------------

And 2 Peter 2:29 is evidence of a pre-trib rapture.

2 Peter 2:9 New King James Version (NKJV)
then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,





The woman in Revelation 12 is not the church.

Once again you're wrong on all accounts. What else is new?








.

Correct..........the WOMAN in Rev. 12 is Israel! The church did not being forth the child which was Jesus....Jesus brought forth and established the Church!

The WOMAN can only be Israel!
 
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No, I know exactly what you were doing. You're opening your mouth again either without reading in advance or lacking knowledge of what was written.

I said in post#1137, to call upon the name of the Lord to be save means you'll be spiritually saved, not physically saved in the tribulation.

You seem to think that by calling upon the Lord in Acts 2:21, the sword will turn to rubber.

The bible refutes your nonsense. If you were meant to die by the sword, you will die by the sword. No rubber swords here, O'foolish one.

Revelation 13:10Good News Translation (GNT)
Whoever is meant to be captured will surely be captured; whoever is meant to be killed by the sword will surely be killed by the sword. This calls for endurance and faith on the part of God's people.”

Having faith by calling upon the Lord doesn't mean the sword will turn to rubber. It means you'll be resurrected and reign with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 Good News Translation (GNT)
Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given the power to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been executed because they had proclaimed the truth that Jesus revealed and the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image, nor had they received the mark of the beast on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and ruled as kings with Christ for a thousand years.

Post-tribbers will say just about anything to make their version of the rapture work. Again, Acts 2:21 means to be save spiritually, not physically. Hebrews 11:35 supports my argument.








.

Not surprised you didn’t get the “rubber” comment either. Tell me when Jesus walked on water did it turn to ice, when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were cast into the fire did their clothes turn to a flame retardant suit. Maybe it was just God’s power of deliverance.
 
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Major1

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Not surprised you didn’t get the “rubber” comment either. Tell me when Jesus walked on water did it turn to ice, when Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were cast into the fire did their clothes turn to a flame retardant suit. Maybe it was just God’s power of deliverance.

Actually I got the comment. I just do not agree with your comment.

Again, God has delivered men in all kinds of situations. But the opposite is just as true and it is wrong to assume or think that God will protect ALL the believers during the Tribulation in your theology.

Just because God delivered the 3 Hebrew boys then does not mean He will deliver everyone now or in the Day of the Lord.

I have already posted several verses that contradicted that kind of thinking.

Again....Has He? YES. Will He today...YES. Will He deliver ALL who asked to be delivered? NO!

Please understand my brother that I believe in the deliverance of God just as much as you do, maybe even more.

I saw things in combat that defied any answer other than God's intervention. How could a mortar hit in the middle of 5 men and not leave a scratch on anyone????

I also saw wonderful Christian men killed that had no answer. A Chaplin, while walking about 100 yards was killed by a single shot from the enemy when he was going to give the last rights in the field hospital.

Listen.......when it rains at Disney World in Orlando, everyone there gets wet.

In your theology, if the church is NOT raptured and goes through the Tribulation, when the rain of murder comes from the A/C toward them......
they will be killed.
 
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And the Word of God does not say that does it????

We can want it to say that. I wish that it said that. But alas it does not say that if a believer in those days calls on the Lord he will be miracousely saved from the death of the A/C 's persecution.

Can God do that? Of course He can. Has He done that? Of course He has.

But what does the actual words say?

Rev.9:18....
"A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths."

Rev. 13:7.....
" It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. "

Rev. 11:7..........
"When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them."

Major1 said:

And the Word of God does not say that does it????

We can want it to say that. I wish that it said that. But alas it does not say that if a believer in those days calls on the Lord he will be miracousely saved from the death of the A/C 's persecution.

Didn’t say they absolutely would!

Can God do that? Of course He can. Has He done that? Of course He has.

I said He absolutely could, sounds like we are in agreement.

But what does the actual words say?

Rev.9:18....

"A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths."

A third is not all.

Rev. 13:7.....

" It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. "

I agree with you the saints will be here and suffer persecution, but Paul said we which are alive and “remain” will be caught up at His coming.

Rev. 11:7..........

"When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them."

This is only two witnesses!

The word is my knife.
 
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Major1

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Major1 said:

And the Word of God does not say that does it????

We can want it to say that. I wish that it said that. But alas it does not say that if a believer in those days calls on the Lord he will be miracousely saved from the death of the A/C 's persecution.

Didn’t say they absolutely would!

Can God do that? Of course He can. Has He done that? Of course He has.

I said He absolutely could, sounds like we are in agreement.

But what does the actual words say?

Rev.9:18....

"A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths."

A third is not all.

Rev. 13:7.....

" It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. "

I agree with you the saints will be here and suffer persecution, but Paul we which are alive and “remain” will be caught up at His coming.

Rev. 11:7..........

"When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them."

This is only two witnesses!

The word is my knife.

And the Word of God cuts like a two edged sword!!!!

I think that you implied that. At least that was my perception.

A third was only ONE example of the loss of life.

Again, I thought it was obvious that the death of the 2 witnesses was an example of God allowing people to die and not delivering them from that death.

We will not be "caught up: at His 2nd Coming. Here comes that CUTTING truth.........
We will be COMING DOWN WITH HIM AT THE 2ND COMING.

Revelation 19:11-16............
"Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, FOLLOWED Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS."
 
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keras

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We will not be "caught up: at His 2nd Coming. Here comes that CUTTING truth.........
We will be COMING DOWN WITH HIM AT THE 2ND COMING.
This is a lie of the first magnitude.
Jesus Returns accompanied by the armies of heaven: Revelation 19:14, His angels: Mark 13:27, with ten thousand of His holy ones, Jude 14.
THEY then gather those Christians who have kept their faith and bring them to where Jesus is; in Jerusalem after defeating the AC at Armageddon. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
NEVER is it said in the Bible that we Christians go to live in heaven. The scene in Revelation 7:9, is in earthly Jerusalem, proved by how Jesus is revealed to His own, 2 Thessalonians 1:10 and Revelation 14:1, You admit that the 144,000 are on earth and we see from Revelation 7:14 the vast multitude are people who have passed safely through the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster, by their faith in God.
In your theology, if the church is NOT raptured and goes through the Tribulation, when the rain of murder comes from the A/C toward them......they will be killed.
This shows a sad lack of understanding of what God promises to His people. We Christians will face trials and some will be killed, but the prophesies generally promise a fantastic future for all who stand strong in their faith. During the Great Tribulation period of 1260 days, those who do keep the Covenant with God, will be taken to a place of safety on earth.
 
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Major1

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This is a lie of the first magnitude.
Jesus Returns accompanied by the armies of heaven: Revelation 19:14, His angels: Mark 13:27, with ten thousand of His holy ones, Jude 14.
THEY then gather those Christians who have kept their faith and bring them to where Jesus is; in Jerusalem after defeating the AC at Armageddon. 1 Thessalonians 4:17
NEVER is it said in the Bible that we Christians go to live in heaven. The scene in Revelation 7:9, is in earthly Jerusalem, proved by how Jesus is revealed to His own, 2 Thessalonians 1:10 and Revelation 14:1, You admit that the 144,000 are on earth and we see from Revelation 7:14 the vast multitude are people who have passed safely through the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster, by their faith in God.

This shows a sad lack of understanding of what God promises to His people. We Christians will face trials and some will be killed, but the prophesies generally promise a fantastic future for all who stand strong in their faith. During the Great Tribulation period of 1260 days, those who do keep the Covenant with God, will be taken to a place of safety on earth.

It is really funny that you would call my comments a lie. ROFL!!!!!!

Though the idea is very popular—especially with the Jehovah Witnesses and particularly with those who subscribe to various millennial doctrines—there actually is no solid basis for it, and the so-called “proof texts” for the doctrine, when closely examined, do not support it at all. It is but another example of YOU not understanding the nature of figures of speech, as such frequently are employed in the sacred text.

One of the clearest distinctions in the Bible is that which exists between heaven
(the abode of God, the “heaven of heavens” – Deuteronomy 10:14; Psalm 115:16),
and the earth. It requires but a few passages to establish this premise.

In warning about oaths, Christ forbade swearing by “heaven,” the throne of God, or by “earth,” his footstool (Matthew 5:34-35).

Jesus taught his disciples to pray that God’s will be done on earth, as in heaven (Matthew 6:10).

The Savior declared that one must not lay up treasures on earth, where thieves might confiscate them; rather, one’s “treasure” should be heavenly in nature (Matthew 6:19).

The Christian’s “hope” is to be realized “in the heavens” (Colossians 1:5).

It is an inheritance incorruptible, undefiled, that fades not away, reserved “in heaven” for us (1 Peter 1:3-4). How is this passage to be explained if the “heaven” of Peter’s statement will, in fact, “fade away,” and give place to an eternal existence on earth? Peter must harmonize with Peter (2 Peter 3:13)!

Our reward, grounded in our citizenship, will be in heaven, whence also we wait for our Savior (Philippians 3:20). Christ is not returning from heaven to be with his people on a reconstructed earth; he is returning to take his people home to the Father.

When Jesus declared: “In my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2), he clearly spoke of “heaven.” This scarcely can be doubted. He then said: “I go to prepare a place for you.” He spoke of going to his Father in heaven. Subsequently, he promised to “come again,” and “receive” his people that “where I am, you may be also” ---- that they might abide in heaven with him.

How in the world can YOU miss this teaching??????????

By his death and subsequent ascension, “he dedicated for us, a new and living way, through the veil” (Hebrews 10:20). Entering “within the veil” (typified by the tabneracle’s holy of holies), the Lord functioned as a “forerunner for us” (Hebrews 6:20). Does that sound like a trip to the “renovated earth”? What serious Bible student ever suspected that the “holy of holies” was a type of a “renewed earth”?

It is useless to continue to pile up passages that demonstrate heaven is not earth and earth is not heaven, when language is employed in its literal sense.

But it is alleged that a “new heaven and a new earth” await us. It is an earth that will have been purified, renovated, reconstituted—as a result of the contamination of sin. Does this proposition apply to the earth only? Or to both “the heavens and earth”? Both are mentioned in the four biblical texts that speak of a “new heaven(s) and new earth.”

The passages that mention a “new heavens and a new earth” are Isaiah 65:17; 66:22; 2 Peter 3:13, and “a new heaven and a new earth” (Revelation 21:1). The evidence will demonstrate unequivocally that these expressions are uniformly used in figurative senses. In not a solitary case do they refer to the literal “heaven” or “earth.”
Will Heaven Be on Earth?
 
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BABerean2

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BAB, read this carefully. These are not the same covenant...

In Jeremiah 31:31 God said He will make a covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. This is a covenant involving ONLY the Jews.

In Matthew 26:28 Jesus said this is the blood of the new covenant which is shed for many. This covenant Jesus made is for everyone, Jews and gentiles.

Jesus did not say "this is the blood of the new covenant which is shed for many Jews" during the last supper. ..

You may want to go back and read your Old Testament regarding Ruth.
Ruth was a Gentile. She was a Moabite who was grafted into Israel, through faith.
She married Boaz. His mother was Rahab, the harlot, who was also a Gentile.
These two Gentiles grafted into Israel through faith were direct ancestors of King David.


You have one thing right above. The New Covenant was made with Israel.
Almost all of the first members of the New Covenant Church were Israelites.
This is a fact you cannot deny. In Romans 11:1 Paul says he is an Israelite.
The Olive Tree of Romans chapter 11 is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of both Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree.
Christ was an Israelite.


When Jesus spoke of the New Covenant in His Blood in Matthew 26:28, who was he talking to?
He was talking to Israelites.


The exact text from Jeremiah chapter 31 is quoted below by the writer of the Book of Hebrews.
It is now in effect, based on verse 6.



Heb 8:6  But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. 
(This is the New Covenant of Christ. This verse was written in the present tense during the first century.)

Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 
(This verse proves the New Covenant is not the Abrahamic Covenant.)


Heb 8:8  Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (The Upper-Case text is quoted directly from Jeremiah chapter 31.)

Heb 8:9  NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD. 

Heb 8:10  FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 

Heb 8:11  NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. 

Heb 8:12  FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
 
Heb 8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 

In verse 13 we find that the New Covenant from Jeremiah chapter 31 has made the Old Covenant "obsolete". It was written in the present tense during the first century.


What you are saying does not match what is written in the Bible.

.
 
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It is really funny that you would call my comments a lie. ROFL!!!!!!
You said that the Church will return to earth with Jesus.
I said that statement was a lie and proved it with 3 scriptures.
You then rambled on about the distinction between heaven and earth. Something that nobody needs to have explained.

Major1, I know that in your part of the world, most Church goers believe that before any serious troubles come upon the world, they will get taken to heaven, then come back to earth for the Millennium reign of Jesus. Correct?
So it's practically impossible for you to suddenly say that idea is wrong, because friends and family would think you had gone mad.
So when proof is presented that the rapture theory is wrong, you 'willfully ignore' it.
I will start a new thread on Willful Ignorance, for the sake of your soul, please consider it carefully.
 
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And the Word of God cuts like a two edged sword!!!!

I think that you implied that. At least that was my perception.

A third was only ONE example of the loss of life.

Again, I thought it was obvious that the death of the 2 witnesses was an example of God allowing people to die and not delivering them from that death.

We will not be "caught up: at His 2nd Coming. Here comes that CUTTING truth.........
We will be COMING DOWN WITH HIM AT THE 2ND COMING.

Revelation 19:11-16............
"Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, FOLLOWED Him on white horses. Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS."

Major1 said:

Again, I thought it was obvious that the death of the 2 witnesses was an example of God allowing people to die and not delivering them from that death.

I thought it should have been obvious from my previous posts in this exchange that my point was to Psalm3704 that his sarcastic remark paraphrased “well just try praying to God and see what happens” was inappropriate. I also thought it was clear from what I said that sometimes God allows us to die even if we ask for deliverance. So really we are in agreement here.

Major1 said:

We will not be "caught up: at His 2nd Coming. Here comes that CUTTING truth.........

We will be COMING DOWN WITH HIM AT THE 2ND COMING.

The word of God says:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Those that sleep in Jesus are the souls of the dead in Christ that have gone on to be with Him and He brings those souls with Him at His return to participate in the resurrection of the body.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Now here is a cutting truth in the form of a challenge! You have absolutely no scripture to show a resurrected church in heaven to come back on those white horses in Revelation 19. You and others have only assumed that to be true and have interpreted into existence. Show us 1 scripture that clearly identifies a resurrected church in heaven, if you have one. I can show you several that show the “souls” of the dead in Christ in heaven. I’ve already given you 1 of those.


Yes you are correct my implication was a 2 edged sword but I used knife because you accused me of bringing a knife to a gun fight. Well, show us your “gun” and provide those scriptures.
 
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Actually I got the comment. I just do not agree with your comment.

Again, God has delivered men in all kinds of situations. But the opposite is just as true and it is wrong to assume or think that God will protect ALL the believers during the Tribulation in your theology.

Just because God delivered the 3 Hebrew boys then does not mean He will deliver everyone now or in the Day of the Lord.

I have already posted several verses that contradicted that kind of thinking.

Again....Has He? YES. Will He today...YES. Will He deliver ALL who asked to be delivered? NO!

Please understand my brother that I believe in the deliverance of God just as much as you do, maybe even more.

I saw things in combat that defied any answer other than God's intervention. How could a mortar hit in the middle of 5 men and not leave a scratch on anyone????

I also saw wonderful Christian men killed that had no answer. A Chaplin, while walking about 100 yards was killed by a single shot from the enemy when he was going to give the last rights in the field hospital.

Listen.......when it rains at Disney World in Orlando, everyone there gets wet.

In your theology, if the church is NOT raptured and goes through the Tribulation, when the rain of murder comes from the A/C toward them......
they will be killed.

You have my sincere heartfelt gratitude for your service to our Great Nation. I’m sure our Lord was on the scene often in those situations.
 
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No, I know exactly what you were doing. You're opening your mouth again either without reading in advance or lacking knowledge of what was written.

I said in post#1137, to call upon the name of the Lord to be save means you'll be spiritually saved, not physically saved in the tribulation.

You seem to think that by calling upon the Lord in Acts 2:21, the sword will turn to rubber.

The bible refutes your nonsense. If you were meant to die by the sword, you will die by the sword. No rubber swords here, O'foolish one.

Revelation 13:10Good News Translation (GNT)
Whoever is meant to be captured will surely be captured; whoever is meant to be killed by the sword will surely be killed by the sword. This calls for endurance and faith on the part of God's people.”

Having faith by calling upon the Lord doesn't mean the sword will turn to rubber. It means you'll be resurrected and reign with Christ.

Revelation 20:4 Good News Translation (GNT)
Then I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given the power to judge. I also saw the souls of those who had been executed because they had proclaimed the truth that Jesus revealed and the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image, nor had they received the mark of the beast on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and ruled as kings with Christ for a thousand years.

Post-tribbers will say just about anything to make their version of the rapture work. Again, Acts 2:21 means to be save spiritually, not physically. Hebrews 11:35 supports my argument.


.

Psalm3704 said:

Post-tribbers will say just about anything to make their version of the rapture work. Again, Acts 2:21 means to be save spiritually, not physically. Hebrews 11:35 supports my argument.

Right on Acts 2:21

Wrong, Hebrews 11:35 has nothing to do with Acts 2:21 and being saved spiritually!

Hebrews 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, (physical) escaped the edge of the sword, (physical) out of weakness were made strong,(physical in context) waxed valiant in fight, (physical) turned to flight the armies of the aliens.(physical)

35 Women received their dead raised to life again: (physical) and others were tortured, (physical) not accepting deliverance (spiritual salvation ,your definition, makes no sense in this context); that they might obtain a better resurrection:
 
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You have my sincere heartfelt gratitude for your service to our Great Nation. I’m sure our Lord was on the scene often in those situations.

Thank you my brother but I would honestly say that He was on the scene ALL of the time.
 
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Major1 said:

Again, I thought it was obvious that the death of the 2 witnesses was an example of God allowing people to die and not delivering them from that death.

I thought it should have been obvious from my previous posts in this exchange that my point was to Psalm3704 that his sarcastic remark paraphrased “well just try praying to God and see what happens” was inappropriate. I also thought it was clear from what I said that sometimes God allows us to die even if we ask for deliverance. So really we are in agreement here.

Major1 said:

We will not be "caught up: at His 2nd Coming. Here comes that CUTTING truth.........

We will be COMING DOWN WITH HIM AT THE 2ND COMING.

The word of God says:

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Those that sleep in Jesus are the souls of the dead in Christ that have gone on to be with Him and He brings those souls with Him at His return to participate in the resurrection of the body.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Now here is a cutting truth in the form of a challenge! You have absolutely no scripture to show a resurrected church in heaven to come back on those white horses in Revelation 19. You and others have only assumed that to be true and have interpreted into existence. Show us 1 scripture that clearly identifies a resurrected church in heaven, if you have one. I can show you several that show the “souls” of the dead in Christ in heaven. I’ve already given you 1 of those.


Yes you are correct my implication was a 2 edged sword but I used knife because you accused me of bringing a knife to a gun fight. Well, show us your “gun” and provide those scriptures.

Now honestly brother.....if I posted 1000 Bible verses would you accept just ONE of them???
You are convined in what you believe just as I am about what I believe.

NO you would not, so what is the point of such an exercise???

But, against by better judgment.............

1 Thessalonians 4:17...........
“Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.”

Where else but heaven would believers be???

Luke 21:36.....
"But keep on the alert at all times, praying in order that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

1 Thess. 1:10.....
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

1 Thess. 5:9.......
For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ".

Rev. 1:12........
"Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands".

That say to me that the 7 churches represent ALL churnum as the number SEVEN represents .."COMPLETE".

Adam Clarke Commentary says.....
These seven lamps represented the seven Churches, in which the light of God was continually shining, and the love of God continually burning. This reference to the temple seems to intimate that the temple of Jerusalem was a type of the whole Christian Church.

Albert Barnes notes............
"There can be no doubt as to the design of this representation, for it is expressly declared Revelation 1:20 that the seven lamp-bearers were intended to represent the seven churches."

Revelation 1:20..........
"The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

Rev. 4:1.....
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

Rev. 4:4..........
"And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

Jesus addresses the disciples, and he told them they would sit on twelve thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel. In Rev. 20:3 right after Satan is bound for a thousand years we see ,thrones and judgment was given unto them. This is the judgment of the nations to set up the millennial kingdom upon the earth, and it further shows that the apostles are part of the 24 Elders.
The 24 Elders also represent the Raptured CHURCH as it took place back in Rev. 4 and 5. The 24 Elders in Revelation are always seen in heaven until the judgment of the nations in Rev. 20:4.

Too many people are trying to put the church into all of Revelation when the fact is the church is NOT mentioned or seen on earth during the Seven Seals of Judgment.

Now that I have shown you the Raptured church in heaven, would you show me the Scriptures in the Revelation that show the church on the earth after 4:1.
 
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