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Featured Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by precepts, Nov 28, 2016.

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  1. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    There are several reasons why a person can be confident in their “eternal security.” First and foremost is the evidence of Scripture. John 3:15-18 says about Christ: ..............
    “The Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.”

    The salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal. If you are reading these posts, please note that if you think you can lose your salvation, then go right ahead and think it. No one is forsing you or anyone else to believe that. IMO.....I just believe that the God who thought up salvation is good enough and strong enough to keep me saved, if He was that way to save me in the 1st place. But that is just me.

    In John 10:28-30, Jesus says:.........
    “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

    If you think that God was lying then so be it. I am not smart enough to argue with God so I for one am just going to take Him at His word.

    The forgiveness of God through Christ is sufficient to cover all of our sins -- past, present, and future. There is nothing a person can do that God cannot forgive. This doctrine is supported by Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, and Jude 24; among others.
     
  2. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    To which point do you believe that the MERCY of God is extensible for a believer ?

    -Based on your interpretation you are saying that a Christian can chose to worship other gods [take the mark/apotasy]and that will be forgiven ...

    -While that the Bible tell us that a Christian who is lukewarm will be rejected by God...

    You serely know that the most lukewarm Christians are those who believe that the only thing they have to do is to wait for the rapture.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  3. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Reading the literal Words of scripture, IS the proof of God's Throne being [by that time] situated in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9 says it is there, supported by Revelation 14:1, it is only your biased rapture to heaven belief, that thinks that scene is in heaven.
    Ezekiel 43:1-7 tells how the Throne will be in the new Temple, that will be built by that Christian peoples of the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, BEFORE the Return of Jesus.

    Re OSAS: Ezekiel 33:12-19 has the definitive truth about this.
    It isn't that our salvation can be taken from us by anyone, including Satan, but that we can lose it ourselves by doing sinful actions.
    Major1, you are very determined to promote the beliefs that you have been taught. Doesn't the fact of scriptures refuting those beliefs, make you think again as to the truth of them?
    There are quite a few people I know, who have changed their minds about a rapture to heaven. They realize that it simply isn't supported by scripture. A good one I found recently is Doug Hamp; at DouglasHamp.com
     
  4. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Brother, you are just wrong. I love you and wish I did not have to say that but that is the case.

    I do not know of one single person who has ever changed their position. NO Not one!
    When the Scriptures are correctly explained then the Rapture question is easily accepted as it fits perfectly as a pre-tribulation event.

    Again, I suggest several seminaries that have on-line teaching available........
    Liberty University,
    Southwest Theological Seminary,
    Carson Newman University,
    Dallas Theological Seminary.
     
  5. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Brother, you are just wrong. I love you and wish I did not have to say that but that is the case.
     
  6. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    As I say, there are many who have 'seen the light' of the truth and now refute a pre-trib rapture. And you DO know one; Posttrib, a member here. Plus myself.
    Do you want me to learn DTS teaching? And become 'wise' like Jesus said: Matthew 11:25 Father, You hide these thing from the learned and wise, but You reveal them to the simple people.
    And Paul in: 1 Corinthians 3:18-20...let the wise become fools....the thoughts of the wise are vain.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  7. Riberra

    Riberra Well-Known Member

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    To which point do you believe that the MERCY of God is extensible for a believer ?

    -Based on your interpretation you are saying that a Christian can chose to worship other gods[take the mark/apostasy] and that will be forgiven ...

    -While that the Bible tell us that a Christian who is lukewarm will be rejected by God...

    You serely know that the most lukewarm Christians are those who believe that the only thing they have to do is to wait for the rapture.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  8. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The word is not found. However, the idea is.


    Rev 11:11  Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 

    Rev 11:12  And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 

    .
     
  9. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    The two Witnesses are killed before being resurrected and taken to heaven. Just as the martyrs have been and are still being killed for their faith and their souls are kept under the heavenly Altar.
    Thinking what will happen to those two, who seem likely to be Enoch and Elijah or Moses, proves a general rapture, is clutching at straws. No the Bible is clear, we must all face the testing times ahead, but we are promised great blessings if we stand firm in our faith. Jeremiah 33:6-14, Romans 8:18
     
  10. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Based on Revelation 1:20 and Romans chapter 11 the Two Witnesses are a symbol of the churches.

    Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 


    Rev 1:20  The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches. 


    Rom 11:24  For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?




     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Based on what Revelation 11:3-12, says, they are real men. The metaphor of olive trees and Lampstands, is their qualification.
     
  12. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I could not find the word "men" or "man" in that passage, in my Bible.

    However, Brother Keras, you are a real man and I am a real man.

    We are both of the Olive Tree found in Romans chapter 11, as was the Apostle Paul in Romans 11:1. He is of the cultivated branches and I am of the wild branches of the Gentiles.

    We are both of the churches of our own land, and in that sense we just like those men of the ancient churches of Asia Minor in the Book of Revelation, are of the Lampstands found in Revelation 1:20.

    .
     
  13. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Once again, you are placing words into my mouth.

    I am saying that anyone who choses to worship the A/C was never saved in the 1st place.

    No one who takes the A/C's mark will be able to be saved.
     
  14. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Then I in fact know of 2.

    I would love for you to learn Bible truth.

    Context of the Scriptures would also be one of those things to learn.

    You are using Matt. 11:25 I guess to imply that YOU are one of the "simple" people.

    Do you really think that is the context of what Jesus said?
    Do you actually believe that you are more humble and lowly and comparatively ignorant so as to be able to receive the words of the Lord Jesus?

    That is the context of the Scriptures you are using my brother.

    Then you use 1 Corth. 3:18 to accuse those who do not agree with you so as to make them look like fools.

    Do you really think that is what the context is all about there?

    The context there is a warning against human estimate of the servants of God who minister is Word. God's people must never become self-complacent, supposing himself to be wise.
    The man of God must never ever glory in himself or teach or preach to please men.

    Is that what your Christianity leads you to do????
     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    I have the good fortune to NOT have been brainwashed at a Bible College or Seminary. My understanding of God's plans for his people comes directly from the Prophetic Word. It all written in plain English, there is no need for anyone to expound their interpretation to me.
    I don't think of myself as anyone other than a messenger, which keras means in Hebrew. I promote what the prophets actually said, and if I see unscriptural teaching, I challenge it.
    The pre-trib rapture is not a Biblical doctrine. It is really easy to refute, as there isn't any scripture that says God intends to take His people to heaven. The very opposite, in fact: John 3:13
    But the sad thing about the rapture removal belief, is they can't see how God promises amazing things for us, as we do our God given tasks here. That is our destiny and our tremendous privilege.
     
  16. Choose Wisely

    Choose Wisely Forgiven Supporter

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    If you are looking for a rapture in Revelation. Here is one of them.

    Rev 14
    14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

    15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

    16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

    17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

    18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

    19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
     
  17. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    The biggest /facepalm ever goes to Keras who continues to promote the absurd idea of God's throne being on earth in Jerusalem.

    And this is why he continues to get strong opposition and wonders why people attack his beliefs.









    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  18. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    Take note everyone: Member Psalm3704 says: the idea that God's Throne will be in Jerusalem, is absurd.

    We see in Revelation 21:4, that God's Throne will be permanently on earth after the Millennium, but before that - as a spiritual concept, it has been, Ezekiel 1:1, Acts 7:56, and can be again seen on earth, as Revelation 7:9 and the Anti-Christ sits on it, 2 Thessalonians 2:4
    You know, I am not concerned that you oppose the truths I present. Your scathing and derogatory comments just serve to show the paucity and shallowness of your Bible knowledge and your inability to rebut my posts with proper exegesis.
     
  19. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    And this is why you're dishonest too Keras.

    You wrote Revelation 7:9, citing this being the passage saying God's throne is on earth.

    Reading the literal Words of scripture, IS the proof of God's Throne being [by that time] situated in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9 says it is

    Revelation 7:9 is not after the millennium either Keras.










    .​
     
  20. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    Here's the entire post below for all readers to see. Not once was Revelation 21:4 used in it claiming God's throne being on earth.

    All scriptures written in the post below are on prophecies being fulfilled before Christ's millennial reign, not after the millennium when heaven does come down to earth.










    .
     
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