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Featured Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by precepts, Nov 28, 2016.

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  1. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Not so! You "rationalized: your opinion but you in no way proved anything Biblically.

    I did NOT SAY that the church comes to earth with Jesus at Armageddon. That is what the Bible actually does say.

    Rev. 19:14......
    And the armies which were in heaven FOLLOWED Him upon white horses clothed in fine linen, white and clean".

    I believe that includes the previously Raptured Church and you do not.

    That is what life is all about.....CHOICES!

    Actually, so far you have shown NO proof at all. You have given YOUR opinion and I do not agree with it as it IMO is not Biblical.

    Now as for the sake of my soul, do yourself favor please, and make that the last thing you worry about. Please consider Titus 2:13......
    "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ".

    Are YOU????
     
  2. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I am glad you asked.

    When the letter was written there were no verses in the text. It was all one letter, with no chapter breaks.


    1Th 4:13  But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 
    1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 
    (Most of us would agree these "who sleep" are the souls of dead Christians.)


    1Th 4:15  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 
    1Th 4:16  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
    (The word "descend" means to come down in most dictionaries.)
     

    1Th 4:17  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 
    1Th 4:18  Therefore comfort one another with these words. 
    1Th 5:1  But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 
    (The word "But" connects this verse to the passage before it.)

    1Th 5:2  For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 
    (This verse reveals the timing of the event at the end of chapter 4. It occurs on the Day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief. We find the same language in 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15, which are clearly Second Coming passages.)


    1Th 5:3  For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 
    1Th 5:4  But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 
    1Th 5:5  You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 
    1Th 5:6  Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 
    1Th 5:7  For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 
    1Th 5:8  But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 
    1Th 5:9  For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 
    (Those of the pretrib persuasion insist that this one verse undoes everything in the verses that proceed. God's wrath will be poured out on the ungodly after we are gathered up first at His Second Coming.)


    1Th 5:10  who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him. 

    The word "sleep" in this last verse proves beyond any doubt that both chapters are speaking of the exact same event.
    You also find the answer to your question here, in this last verse.




    Those of the pretrib doctrine will do their absolute best to ignore this last verse.
    They have to, or see their doctrine fall apart.


    There is no 7 year stay in heaven anywhere in the passage.
    It must be imported from another place in an attempt to make the pretrib doctrine work.


    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  3. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    My dear brother. ALL of the Bible was written without number breaks!!!

    The whole Bible must be considered to have proper context.

    Because Paul did not mention a 7 year period in Thess. does not mean that Jeremiah and Daniel were lying, but isn't that what you are implying!!!!!

    Talk about working hard to prove a false idea. 1 Thess. 5:10 not the verse I would have chosen.

    It is clear to me that Paul is simply telling us that whether we die or whether we live until H for us at the Rapture, we will live together with Him!
     
  4. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I never implied in any way that Jeremiah and Daniel were lying.

    However, some of us continue to deny that the New Covenant promised to Jeremiah and recorded by him in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13.
    The actual Old Testament text was repeated by the writer of the Book of Hebrews.
    Jeremiah spoke the truth revealed to him by God about the New Covenant.
    Some of us want to ignore it, because it destroys their Two Peoples of God doctrine.


    Some of us have taken the covenant with the many in Daniel 9:27, which is the same covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28 and have changed it into a treaty broken by an antichrist which is not in the chapter, by adding a "gap" of time not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.
    It is your task to show the antichrist in Daniel chapter 9, instead of talking about "lying".


    There is no 7 year tribulation period anywhere in the Bible. It is usually produced by adding together two of the references to a period of 3 1/2 years found in the Book of Revelation or by corrupting the text of Daniel 9:27.

    I did not write the 1599 Geneva Bible text found below. It was obvious over 400 years ago that Daniel 9:27 is about the covenant confirmed by Christ in Matthew 26:28.

    ............................................................
    Daniel 9:27 from the 1599 Geneva Bible
    And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    (a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

    (b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

    (c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
    .....................................................................

    Who Confirmed The Covenant?
    James Lloyd
    http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023


    It is not that Jeremiah or Daniel are "lying", the problem is men who are attempting to twist God's Word to make their manmade doctrine work.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  5. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    So, if the Temple is ever rebuilt and operational again, that would then obliterate the conclusion of those who wrote that in the Geneva bible notes, since the sacrifice should cease even until the end?
     
  6. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    So you believe something that scripture doesn't actually say.
    This follows, as scripture also does not say people will be taken to heaven, either. Two false ideas; why believe them?
    Do you think God wants humans in heaven? What for? Will His intention to have a people [nation] on earth as His witnesses, fail?
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Why do you think God ripped the temple veil in half on the day that Christ died as the ultimate and final sacrifice for sin?


    If a group of Christ-rejecting Pharisees rebuild a modern temple and renew animal sacrifices it will be one more rejection of God's Son. Based on Hebrews 8:13 the New Covenant has now made the Old Sinai covenant "obsolete". Therefore, attempting to renew Old Covenant sacrifices would mean nothing to God.


    However, it would be likely to fulfill the following passages found in the Book of Revelation.

    Rev_2:9  "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

    Rev_3:9  Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.


    The verses below by Paul explain what it means to be a New Covenant Jew.

    Rom 2:28  For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 
    Rom 2:29  But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. 


    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  8. SeventyOne

    SeventyOne Well-Known Member

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    I'm just going off what you said.

    This Geneva Bible commentary you are quoting implies that under point C that Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed in the past fulfilling that portion of Daniel 9:27. If correct, the verse does say the destruction will leave it desolate even until the end (the consummation). Therefore, that is what we would expect to see.

    The problem is that even though it might have fit the late 16th century, Jerusalem is currently the farthest thing from desolate. So, the commentary on Daniel 9:27 is already provably wrong.

    As a result, my question to you is concerning the second point about the Temple. If it's rebuilt and once again functional, wouldn't that put the final nail in the coffin concerning their commentary on Daniel 9:27, as the sacrifice would have ceased to cease prior to the end?

    Don't forget, it's already proven wrong by Jerusalem no longer being desolate prior to the end of the age. It's already a dead conclusion, I'm just curious how much more do you need to see that for yourself.
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    We will have to see if Jesus agrees with the word "desolation" in Daniel 9:27, below in Matthew chapter 23.

    Mat 23:37  O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 
    Mat 23:38  Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 


    Part (c) of what is found in the Geneva Bible most certainly occurred during the siege of 70 AD. Starvation was so bad that mothers ate their own children.
    In the year 73 AD the Jewish leader at Masada said the only thing left in Jerusalem was what had been built by the Romans.


    There will never be another manmade temple offering Old Covenant sacrifices, because the Old Covenant has been made "obsolete" by the New Covenant, as plainly stated in Hebrews 8:13.

    Heb 8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 

    The Old Covenant Age ended at Calvary, based on the verse above.

    When I look at Daniel 9:27 in my New King James Bible, there are two reference verses beside of it.
    They are Matthew 26:28 and Isaiah 42:6.
    Therefore, the NKJV is in agreement with the 1599 Geneva Bible.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2017
  10. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    Here read below.

    Who's name does it show bringing up Hebrews 11:35 to refute my comment on Acts 2:21? How many people on CF goes by the name Postvieww?

    If Hebrews 11:35 has nothing to do with Acts 2:21, why did you used that passage in your debate?

    I'm pretty sure it's because the passage you tried to use against me backfired and supports my argument. Due to the humiliation, now you need to deny Hebrews 11:35.

    Kinda late to do that now don't you think bud? The evidence is right below.
















    .​
     
  11. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    Matthew 26:26-29 New King James Version (NKJV)
    26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”
    27 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”

    Hebrews 8:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
    8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For thisis the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


    .
    BAB2,

    The covenant Jesus made with His disciples at the Last Supper (Matthew 26:26-29) happened around 33 AD.

    Paul wrote the book of Hebrews 8 around 50-60 AD.

    How can they be the same covenant if Paul is telling us decades after Christ died that Hebrews 8:8-10 is still future?










    .
     
  12. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    You're just reading into the passages looking only at the miracle but not understand why God performs them.

    There's a purpose for everything God does. He doesn't just pull rabbit tricks out of a hat for your entertainment. Jesus didn't performed miracles because He thought they were fun to do.

    He performed miracle at the right time to get certain people to believe. Did Jesus not perform miracles time and time again for this purpose?

    Read the rest of Daniel 3. Was God not trying to get Nebuchadnezzar to believe?

    Daniel 3:26-30 Good News Translation (GNT)
    26 So Nebuchadnezzar went up to the door of the blazing furnace and called out, “Shadrach! Meshach! Abednego! Servants of the Supreme God! Come out!” And they came out at once. 27 All the princes, governors, lieutenant governors, and other officials of the king gathered to look at the three men, who had not been harmed by the fire. Their hair was not singed, their clothes were not burned, and there was no smell of smoke on them.

    28 The king said, “Praise the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego! He sent his angel and rescued these men who serve and trust him. They disobeyed my orders and risked their lives rather than bow down and worship any god except their own.

    29 “And now I command that if anyone of any nation, race, or language speaks disrespectfully of the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, he is to be torn limb from limb, and his house is to be made a pile of ruins. There is no other god who can rescue like this.”

    30 And the king promoted Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to higher positions in the province of Babylon.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The bible clearly stated that during the tribulation, God's people will be handed to the a/c for 42 months and will have their faith tested.

    This clearly teaches that no miracles will be performed to save your neck when you're about to be beheaded. Your faith will be tested, not God's faith. He's not gonna turn swords into rubber as there will be many martyres in the tribulation, Revelation 20:4.


    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Christian persecution reached record high in 2015, report says


    Christian persecution reached record high in 2015 - CNN.com

    With so many Christians dying today, strange not one sword was turned into rubber.












    .



     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Because the writer of the Book of Hebrews said no such thing.
    He simply quoted Jeremiah 31:31-34 directly from the Old Testament, after revealing in Hebrews 8:6 that Christ is "now" the mediator of this better covenant.


    This is easily seen in the NKJV, because it uses Upper-case text when Old Testament text is quoted.

    Let us look at the entire passage, in-context.

    Heb 8:6  But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
    (The writer is using present-tense language here and then quotes directly from the Old Testament in most of the verses that follow. Look at the sections in Upper-case text.) 

    Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 
    (This verse, and the beginning of the next verse, reveal the need for the New Covenant. There was nothing wrong with the Sinai Covenant. However, no one but Christ could ever keep it. Therefore, a New Covenant was required.)


    Heb 8:8  Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— 
    (Most, but not all, of this verse is quoted directly from Jeremiah 31:31. In the verses that follow, you will find the rest of Jeremiah 31:31-34. Go back to Jeremiah chapter 31 and check it for yourself.)

    Heb 8:9  NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
     
    Heb 8:10  FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
     
    Heb 8:11  NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. 
    (Christ explained this verse in John 14:26. Those in the New Covenant have their own internal teacher sent from God, in the form of the Holy Spirit. He reveals to us Christ in the scriptures. If you are faithfully reading the whole Bible, the Holy Spirit will reveal to you that the whole Bible is about Christ. He said on the Road to Emmaus that the whole Old Testament is about Him. Is He teaching you now? If He is teaching you now, you are constantly correcting what you believe to make it fit the Bible.)

    Heb 8:12  FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE." 

    Heb 8:13  In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
     

    In verse 13 the writer reveals that the New Covenant "has made" (present tense) the Old Covenant "obsolete". Many scholars believe this letter was written just a few years before 70 AD. The very end of the verse reveals that the whole system would soon disappear as it did when animal sacrifices were stopped and the temple was destroyed in 70 AD.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  14. Psalm3704

    Psalm3704 And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

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    Oh really?

    This doesn't sound like Paul was telling us Hebrews 8:8 was fulfilled in the past (33AD). Sounds more like the future to me.

    Hebrews 8:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
    Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

    Plus Paul and Jeremiah said this happens when the house of Israel is back in the holy land with the house of Judah. This definitely did NOT happen in 33 AD or any time else in the past. This is still future, will happen in the first year of Daniel's 70th week to be exact.

    BAB2, show us the scriptures revealing God had already gathered the Kingdom of Israel back to the holy land.

    One more thing BAB2, quality not quantity gets the message across. One lengthy page of nonsense doesn't impress anyone.











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    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  15. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    Major1 said: Now honestly brother.....if I posted 1000 Bible verses would you accept just ONE of them???

    Yes I would if you could post just one that clearly stated the resurrected church is in heave at any time. But the fact is there is not one. The ones you use do not state what you assume they state. If you disagree post the text of scripture that says a resurrected church is shown to be in heaven.


    Revelation 6:9 says “the souls of them”


    Revelation 7:14 says “these are they that came out of great tribulation” Therefore cannot be the complete resurrected church. It could be more effectively argued they are the same group as in Rev 6 than the resurrected church.


    Revelation 19:1 the “much people in heaven” are nowhere said to be a resurrected church, that is only assumed by those that need it to be so. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 says “even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him” . Since the context of the whole passage is the resurrection of the church, and those that sleep in Jesus come with Him to the resurrection they are only the souls of the dead in Christ returning with Him.


    Revelation 20:4 Even this passage says “the souls of them that were beheaded” .


    So I stand firmly on my contention that there is no scripture that places a resurrected church in heaven.


    Major1 said:

    Where else but heaven would believers be???

    In the air with the Lord as 1 Thess 4:17 and then ruling and reigning with Him on this earth as Revelation 20:4, Revelation 20:6, 2 Timothy 2:12, Revelation 5:10, state clearly.

    Major1 said:

    Rev. 1:12........

    "Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands".

    That say to me that the 7 churches represent ALL churnum as the number SEVEN represents .."COMPLETE".

    We agree the 7 lampstands represent the seven churches, that representation in no way places a resurrected church in heaven.


    Revelation 2 begins the letters to the 7 churches on this earth their location are clearly given. Even if you follow the theory the churches represent various points in the church age neither of those scenarios places the resurrected church in heaven at any time.


    Major1 said:

    This is the judgment of the nations to set up the millennial kingdom upon the earth, and it further shows that the apostles are part of the 24 Elders.

    The 24 Elders also represent the Raptured CHURCH as it took place back in Rev. 4 and 5. The 24 Elders in Revelation are always seen in heaven until the judgment of the nations in Rev. 20:4.

    I totally disagree with your assessment that the 24 elders include the apostles, or represent the church. This is another topic with much to say about it, but I’ll try to be brief here


    1. Nothing states that.


    2. The scene in Revelation 4 and 5 up until Rev 5:5 is before the ascension of Jesus after His resurrection. Since that scene is before the ascension of Jesus it is impossible for the apostles to be part of the 24 elders. John didn’t mention seeing himself in that group.


    3. The elders are part of the “heavenly Host” just as the 4 beasts and are created beings just as the four beasts IMHO with much evidence to support it.


    Major1 said:

    Too many people are trying to put the church into all of Revelation when the fact is the church is NOT mentioned or seen on earth during the Seven Seals of Judgment.

    Now that I have shown you the Raptured church in heaven, would you show me the Scriptures in the Revelation that show the church on the earth after 4:1.

    Sure no problem. First of all if your only point here is the word Church it is not used after Rev 4:1 except in Revelation 22:16 and that is not in the context of heaven either.


    The word saint is used throughout the New Testament as well as the word church, simply because the word church is not used after Rev. 4:1 does not prove the church is in heaven as is claimed. The word saint is used, and saints are on this earth throughout Revelation. Revelation 5:8, 8:3-4, 11:18, 13:7, 13:10, 14:12, 15:3, 16:6, 17:6, 18:24,19:8 and in Revelation 20:9 saints is used not church, and that is clearly after the resurrection of the church and on this earth.


    Major1 said:

    You are convinced in what you believe just as I am about what I believe.:

    Agree totally but we are on a debate forum with others reading so both of us backing what we say with scripture is preferred, as well as discussing the merits there of.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  16. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Again we have the problem of posting several things all at one time expecting a response on each one of them. Since you have posted Scriptures I will give you my understanding o

    Rev. 6:9 is NOT the Church!
    The souls there are the Old Test. saints and those who will be killed in the Great Trib.

    Luke 11:50-51.....
    "that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation".

    Rev. 7:14 is not the Church.
    IF the ones in view here was the church, John would have known. According to verse 13....John does not know this group. When reading verse 14 IMO the ELDER from verse 13 who IMO is the representative of the Raptured church tells John that this group of people came out of the Tribulation. That tells ME that the church is not going through the Tribulation.

    Rev. 19:1 is the host of heaven including the Raptured church.
    If you go back and study chapters 5-7 you will see the ELDERS, the Church and angels all worshipping God. Now in 19:1 we see that a large number of Tribulation saints have been added.
    At this point in future time the Great Tribulation is over and the HOST, all those in heaven are united with Christ in marriage and the preparations have all been made and Jesus is about to come again in power and great glory!!!

    Rev. 20:4 is not the church.
    This is self explanatory as the verse itself tells us......"And which had not worshipped the beast neither his image or received his mark...."!

    That can only be the Tribulation saints. The Church will have already been in heaven and was not subjected to that challenge to their faith.

    I am sorry that you do not accept that the 24 Elders represent the Raptured. I do and that is as they say.....that.

    Again, you do not accept that the church disappears after Rev. 3 and is not seen again until 19:11 and I do. So once again........that is that!

    And finally......we both post Scriptures and we both believe that they say two different things.

    Repeating them over and over is not going to advance the position of either one of us but you seem to enjoy this.

    Again......if you care to continue, PLEASE post ONE response and not many.
     
  17. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    Post #1138 Reposted here

    Psalm3704 said:

    Try calling upon the Lord when you're about to be beheaded by the a/c in the tribulation and see if that'll prevent you from getting your head chopped off. Revelation 20:4.

    I wouldn’t rule out calling on the Lord at a time like that, if God has a purpose for your life, that sword just might turn to rubber in the executioners hand. Then again you might lose your head and go to be with Christ.

    Hebrews 11:35

    Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:





    My use of Hebrew 11:35 was not directed at your use of Acts 2:21 it was used in reference to your comment which I specifically quoted in post #1138 copied above. It was in a later post, #1158 I questioned your tying them together. You are addressing points not made and creating issues I never raised.


    Trust me my friend I feel no humiliation from anything you have written.


    Your brother in Christ, BUD
     
  18. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Let me say it one more time.
    The text you quoted above from Hebrews chapter 8 is a direct quote from the Old Testament Book of Jeremiah. In the NKJV it is written in Upper-case letters.
    This time I will Bold, and Underline the text from the Old Testament, so you can see it this time.


    Heb 8:6  But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. 

    Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 

    Heb 8:8  Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—


    Below we find the verse from the Book of Jeremiah. 

    Jer 31:31  "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 

    Therefore, your attempt to deny that the New Covenant is not in effect now is revealed for what it really is.
    The context of any passage is essential to finding the truth.

    You have attempted to ignore Hebrews 8:6, which is written in the present tense during the first century and then you are pretending that the text from verse 8 was written by Paul, instead of Jeremiah.



    How did Peter address the crowd on the day of Pentecost?

    Act 2:14  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 


    Act 2:22  "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 

    Act 2:36  "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 


    You are attempting to force God's Word to fit your manmade doctrine.


    Others watching our conversation have now seen the truth found in God's Word.

    You have referred to some on this forum as "Padawan".
    Are you attempting to puff yourself up by using this term?



    "A Padawan, also known as a Padawan learner or Apprentice, referred to a Force-sensitive adolescent who trained in the Jedi Order to one day become a full-fledged Jedi."

     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  19. Postvieww

    Postvieww Newbie

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    Major1 said:

    Again we have the problem of posting several things all at one time expecting a response on each one of them. Since you have posted Scriptures I will give you my understanding o

    Again you are correct I was just trying to respond to your every point which did make it lengthy.

    Major1 said:

    Repeating them over and over is not going to advance the position of either one of us but you seem to enjoy this.

    Your “you seem to enjoy this” comment I believe is an unfair characterization. You have more than once offered your comment and opinion to some of my posts sometimes those directed at another poster. I have no problem with that, we are on an open forum for debate, and we all feel we have something to say or we wouldn’t be here. If when challenged you simply saying “that is that” to me says a lot about the strength or your position. Just my thoughts and opinion.
     
  20. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    We are both welcome to our opinions. However, saying them over and over does not further a debate at all.

    I apologize for the "you seem to enjoy this" comment as it seems to have offended you.

    It just seems to me that when we keep repeating our selves it speaks to something other than learning or growing in knowledge.
     
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