Amen.

Thought I’d bump this up.

George Soros left his estate in good hands.

"The New York Times reported. Alex, in a July 2023 interview with the Wall Street Journal, described himself as “more political” than his father and said he would focus on advancing abortion rights."

The Barbarian said:

For example, kinetic theory is science. Phrenology was never science.


The rules. For an idea to become a scientific theory, its predictions must be repeatedly verified by evidence.
You don't have elections to decide what science is.

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Who makes these rules?

The Barbarian said:

It's not like that. The process evolved over a very long time, People like the Ionian philosophers, Arabic scientists, Europeans like Roger Bacon, and so on, discovered and perfected a methodology that works. It is a logical process of induction that formalized what many people had discovered over thousands of years.

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Induction is only one part of science, in fact the larger part of science is critical redaction. There are numerous epistemic issues that are often less clear than people believe as to what makes a science and what doesn't.

The Barbarian said:

There's nothing idealized in the notion that we can systematically learn about the world. It's just a method. The problem is that for many laymen, science is visualized as something like a religion. It's not like that at all.

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It's not just a method, it's a model.

The Barbarian said:

There is a philosophy of science, but it's merely the application of inductive reasoning. Nothing that depends on public opinion or faith.

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There's more than just inductive reasoning involved, in fact one of the biggest epistemic problems for philosophy of science is the induction problem since there is no non-circular way to justify the inductive method itself. Though that's a bit outside of our current discussion, which is the demarcation problem. While some things easily fit under the purview of science, what makes something a science and what doesn't qualify is a matter of debate. So to unilaterally say "that's not a science" requires some sort of non-question begging definition of science, and while our understanding of what is and isn't a science may change over time the question we're currently discussing rather falls more into the issue of the entire naturalist program since we can functionally treat them as identical for the purposes of our discussion.

The Barbarian said:

For example, "how many times must the predictions of a hypothesis be verified in order for it to be a theory?"

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The Barbarian said:

Discovering a way to make logic circuits fit in a smaller space is science. Building 4TB drives is technology. Technology is application of science. And this is a sore point with some engineers. They aren't junior scientists; they have their own discipline, no less demanding than that of science, and it is their work that makes science save lives.

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Applied science is still science.

I agree vs 21 is important to the section.

IbelieveinmyGodnotHuman said:

Thanks that's what I would like to say to my sister I hope she think about it carefully.

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You are welcome. I hope that the church thinks about it carefully, and allows your sister to go for free or reduced price.

Kokavkrystallos said:

There are a number of factors of what could happen, and what the causes are.

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Yep, it could be both climate change and a nuclear war, or something else, such as a meteor, but probably the first two.

AlwaysInquisitive said:

This is how I interpret Rev 21:1-27

Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Here, the holy city, New Jerusalem is not called or named “the bride”.
Rather its glory is likened to the beauty of a bride prepared and adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.”
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

You can take this two ways. Only one makes sense to me.
1) The Lamb will be marry a city (New Jerusalem), or
2) The city (New Jerusalem) is the dwelling place of the Lamb’s bride

I choose to believe the latter.

This is how I interpret John 3;29:

There are 3 individuals mentioned: the bride, the bridegroom, and the friend of the bridegroom.

Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Taking the whole passage (John 3:22-36) in it’s historical context:
The Lord Jesus Christ was the bridegroom. John the Baptist was merely the friend of the bridegroom, the “best man.” The bride does not belong to the friend of the bridegroom, but rather to the bridegroom himself. Therefore, it was fitting that the people follow Jesus rather than John.

“The bride” was used in this passage to refer in a general way to all who would become disciples of the Lord Jesus (i.e. those who had left John the Baptist when the Messiah appeared). It did not mean either Israel or the church. It was John’s great joy to hear the bridegroom's voice. He was satisfied that Jesus was receiving all the attention. His joy was fulfilled because Christ was receiving praise and honour from men.

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There is also:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Grip Docility said:

1 John 1:8

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Well if I recall correctly the next verse says that he will forgive our sin. Hence how is it possible to continue in sin?

How do I know God's real?
What makes me think that I am a Christian?
What distinguishes me from a Buddhist, Muslim, or any non-religious good man?
What is the evidence that Jesus exists?
What makes you feel loved by God?
How do I know that God is a living God?

God lives in me. 1 Corinthians 3:

16 Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you?

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I can sense the Paraclete in me all the time. Whenever I focus on him, I feel peace no matter what is happening outside. I cannot deny the reality of the Paraclete in me.

Romans 8:

16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

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I have been born again.

My Paraclete in me is the best subjective proof that I am a Christian. This is how I know that I am saved.

What is unique about Christianity?

The divine personal mystery of the Father and Son is not a human concept, and I don't think it was a concept invented by humans (the apostles). It reflects the transcendence and ineffability nature of the true God.

Is there any religion where God sent himself to die for people's sins, other than Christianity?

No. While other religions offer various paths to spiritual growth, moral improvement, or liberation, none share Christianity’s emphasis on a Father God who personally intervenes to redeem his creation by sending his one and only Son.

How do I know that someone is saved?

I can't know for sure unless specifically by a revelation. In the meantime, I can observe his behaviors and guess. Galatians 5:

22 The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

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What makes my experience with Jesus true, but the experience of others with their religion is fake?

I don't know about them. I can only sense my Paraclete/Spirit in me.

Do you ever consider the possibility that you only believe in God, because you're afraid of death?

Before I called myself a Christian, I didn't believe in the afterlife. I had a scientific worldview. If I died, that's the end of my existence. Even after I called myself a Christian, I do not quite believe in conscious torment over an infinite period of time. I have always been against hell-fire evangelism.

See also

• What's your best argument for God's existence?

The proposals from the Dicastery for Promoting Christian Unity feel quite distant from the actual reality of Christian unity today.

OSV News) — Being a Catholic dad is both a great privilege and a big responsibility. Along with their mothers, we’ve been entrusted to raise our kids to know and love God and to prepare them for lives as Catholic men and women. Odds are, we’re good at it, we enjoy it, and we all deserve a pat on the back for the work we do raising our children in the faith. In this list, you will undoubtedly see some things suggested that you’re already doing. But you may also see some that serve as reminders of how to be a better and more effective Catholic dad. As we celebrate Father’s Day, pick one or two of the following practices that will make a big difference for your family, and start doing them.

1. Keep holy the Lord’s Day — and all those other days (Ex 20:8)​

Fatherhood is the ultimate exercise in getting priorities straight. In too many households, mom is the “keeper of the faith.” She’s often the one who herds the family into the car on Sunday morning for Mass. But this cannot be good enough for us. Our kids are watching, and they will do what we do. They’re watching if we’re ambivalent about getting to Mass. They’re watching if we’re checking the time during the homily, calculating whether or not we’ll make it home before kickoff. But the good news is, they’re also watching when we do things right! My dad can’t carry a tune in a bucket, but he sings in full voice every Sunday; our kids notice when we have our priorities straight — when we sing, pray and actively participate with our faith communities.

2. Teach your children faith (Jn 20:29)​

Continued below.

Kylie said:

You said in post 13 that money has no intrinsic value.

Intrinsic value is the perceived value. I disagreed. I pointed out that this is not correct. A dollar, after all, has the value of a dollar. If it has no intrinsic value, then there should be no problem with me paying you ten cents for a dollar. Net gain to me is ninety cents.

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Ah, OK. It is the extrinsic value that is the perceived value. The intrinsic value is the value it has in and of itself. So a dollar has no intrinsic value because it is an abstraction. The form it comes in, e.g. a coin or a piece of paper, may have intrinsic value, because it has some utility (e.g. as literal 'note' paper, or to stop a table wobbling), but not because it's money.

Kylie said:

You also said that goods and services was like energy in physics.

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No, I said that the concept of financial value (represented by money) was analogous to energy in physics.

Kylie said:

Again, I disagreed. First of all, barter has intrinsic value. I used the analogy of a glass of water. If I offered to give someone a glass of water in exchange for a Porsche, then this would seem, a ridiculous trade, yet if the person I was making the trade with was dying of dehydration, then the trade might look very good if the glass of water is going to save his life.

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And I explained that you were describing the extrinsic value of water and a Porsche, which varies according to subjective judgement. IOW, their intrinsic utility (their physical properties, what they can do or be used for) doesn't change, but the subjective value of that utility does change.

Kylie said:

The difference here is that no one would ever trade a dollar for ten cents, no matter how desperate their situation. If they have the value of a dollar, then they can do anything they need that requires the value of ten cents (and don't get me started on hypotheticals like, "what if they need a ten cent coin and they just have a dollar coin," because we both know that's missing my point). The value of a dollar is always going to be a dollar. But the value of a glass of water can change dramatically, as my Porsche example shows. So barter does have an intrinsic value, money does not.

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The value of a dollar is in what it represents - the extrinsic (subjective) value of some utility; this is where it differs from the unit of energy, which represents the intrinsic value of something in terms of work potential or capacity (roughly).

Barter is the idea that goods and services can be exchanged according to their extrinsic value, i.e. the subjective value of their utility. I'll concede that some ideas have extrinsic value themselves - the idea that we can barter has some value if we each have goods or services that the other needs or wants - but do ideas have value in and of themselves? how can we judge the intrinsic value of an idea?

Kylie said:

Does energy have intrinsic or extrinsic value?

If it has intrinsic value, then what makes it change? Energy can be measured objectively, just like money. But the value of that glass of water can not be measured objectively. A dollar is objectively more than ten cents. Ten kilojoules of energy is objectively more then two kilojoules of energy.

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Energy is a measure of the intrinsic value things have in terms of their potential or capacity to do work (roughly). IOW, a measure of the amount of force that can potentially be applied. A car of a certain mass moving at a certain speed, a spring of a certain elasticity compressed a certain amount, a certain amount of gunpowder, a rock of a certain mass suspended a certain height above ground, so on, can all potentially exert a certain amount of force as a result of their particular context or state. This potential or capacity for exerting force is called energy, and can be measured and quantified. The intrinsic value that energy is a measure of will change when the potential or capacity of the thing to exert a force changes - when the car slows down or speeds up, when the spring relaxes or is compressed more, etc.

So energy is a measure of a certain intrinsic value of things that also has extrinsic value. If you want to watch the TV, the energy of the electricity from your plug socket is worth more than the same amount of energy of the water pressure in your taps or hot water in your water tank, or the chemical energy of the clothes in your wardrobe.

Kylie said:

But is a Porsche objectively worth more than a glass of water? You may say no, but just ask the guy about to die of dehydration if he agrees.

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That would be a subjective opinion of value, i.e. extrinsic value. The objective value of the Posrshe is in its materials, form, and function (a superficially ironic but deeper truth is that these can all be measured in terms of energy expenditure).

Michie said:

A Christian maths teacher who was banned indefinitely from the profession after refusing to use a student's preferred pronouns is seeking a judicial review.

Joshua Sutcliffe was banned for a minimum of two years by the Teaching Regulation Authority (TRA) for allegedly "bringing the profession into disrepute".

It followed his 2017 dismissal from Cherwell School in Oxford after allegedly using the wrong pronouns and "misgendering" a biologically female pupil who had started identifying as male.

Continued below.

Christian teacher banned over stance on pronouns seeks judicial review

A Christian maths teacher who was banned indefinitely from the profession after refusing to use a student's preferred pronouns is seeking a judicial review.

christiantoday.com

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This is a classic example of how we as a society have become divided along identity lines and how this is causing the percieved rights of identity groups to clash and conflict which is always going to happen. Because we can divided people into never ending identities and every identity is a subjective determination.

Thyis is what happens when society becomes deluded by ideology and moves away from objective reality and our real lived experiences. We have done this experiment many times in the past and we know the end result. It doesn't end well.

Pronouns represent a Mindset, a belief and assumption about the world. Pronouns are just the outward example of the ideological thinking. Some call it Woke or PC.

But heres the problem. The ideology insists that all identities have the right to express their beliefs, their real selves to the world. If thats the case then any person who thinks and believes different also has the right.

What the ideology is more or less saying when it calls for disagreeing voices to be cancelled is everyone must believe and think like the Woke. But we know that is not possible because a person cannot just change belieeef or who they are. In other words for the Wokist to achieve their DEI Utopia they are going to have to cancel the different beliefs and thinking and reprogram it to be more like the Woke.

In other words a Totalitarian society. Theres no other way to achieve this. Those who oppose Woke and Gender ideology do so because their belief, thinking and conscience is alien to this, it goes against their own reality.

The Woke are asking those they cancel to give up their own selves and reality itself. I think thats a bit much when you consider the Woke are suppose to be a Diverse, Equal and Inclusive and tolerant society. That seems like the opposite.

Introduction to the Seven Letters in Revelation

This is the first of seven letters that Jesus Christ sent to seven specific church congregations in seven different cities. Since the book of Revelation is regarding the times of the end, and it is intended for us, the body of Christ, and so much of it is written in symbols and in metaphorical language, it is believed that these seven churches either represent the church down through the generations, ending with Laodicea, which represents the church in this present age, and/or that all of them represent the church at any given time and in any given location throughout church history, as they apply.

So, as we go through this study of the seven churches, I pray that each one of us will pay close attention to the wording and that we will examine our own hearts and lives to see where we are in the scheme of things and where the Lord may be pointing to things in our own lives which need to change.

Now, in four of the seven letters, Jesus had both something positive and something negative to say about these church congregations, each of which were most likely the collective body of Christ in each city and thus they probably did not all meet together in the same exact locations. In two of the letters he spoke positively to the churches, and in only one did he have nothing good to say, but all was negative, and that is the church of Laodicea which many believe represents the church in our generation today. And I concur that it does represent the majority of what is called “church” today.


So, the church in Ephesus collectively represented the body of Christ who were dedicated to opposing all that was evil and to testing those who call themselves apostles but who were not apostles. Today this could include prophets, preachers, teachers, pastors, and evangelists, i.e. any who call themselves servants of the Lord and ministers of the gospel, who we are to test. And the church in Ephesus were those who were enduring patiently and bearing up for his name’s sake, and they had not grown weary. So they were committed to the truth of the gospel and to refuting the lies of the enemy, it appears.

But they had abandoned their first love. Either they had abandoned Christ himself or the love they had for him at first. So, what does that mean in this context? It would mean that Christ was no longer first place in their lives. He was not #1. He was not the one that they went to for everything. So, although what they were doing were good things, yet perhaps now they were doing them more in their flesh or as a matter of religious practice, but that they were not solely depending on the Lord Jesus to empower and to guide them in where to go and in what they were to do and to say.

And that is possible to do, to get into routines and then to just follow those routines without really inquiring of or depending on the Lord for what we are to do and to say, and for where and when we are to go here or there. In other words, it is possible for us to go ahead of God and assume that we should do such and such, because we believe it is the right thing to do, when that might not be what he wants us to do at that time or with those specific people. And so we need his guidance and direction. We need him to lead us specifically in what to write/say, and to whom and when and where, etc.

So, the Lord is saying to any of us who might be operating out of habit, rather than as being led by the Holy Spirit, that we need to repent, to turn away from doing that, to back up, and to take time to inquire of the Lord and to see what he wants us to do instead of us just assuming what is right or wrong when it may not be his timing or what he wants at all. And so if we go without his direction, it could end up backfiring and blowing up in our faces. For it is not the Lord we are serving if we are going it alone without letting him lead us in where to go, in what to say, and in what to do.

And he may then remove us from the ministry to which he has called us because our ministry depends on him leading us and him empowering us and him opening and closing doors for us. So, we must be his servants who let him lead us, and who then follow him in obedience in doing what he says.

But the Lord still commended them for hating the works of false preachers and teachers and doctrines and philosophies and teachings. And we do need to be people who discern the lies from the truth and who are speaking the truth and not the lies, and who are exposing the fruitless deeds of darkness for what they are. For this is what we have all been called to do. And we all need to be listening to the Lord, to what he wants to teach us, and then we must conquer all that is contrary to his will by following him in obedience. And then we have the promise and the hope of eternal life with God.

[Matt 7:21-23; Matt 24:9-14; Lu 9:23-26; Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14,24; Rom 12:1-2; Rom 13:11; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; 1 Co 1:18; 1 Co 15:1-2; 2 Tim 1:8-9; Heb 9:28; 1 Pet 1:5; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-32; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-17; 1 Pet 2:24; Tit 2:11-14; 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6,24-25; 1 Jn 3:4-10; Heb 3:6,14-15; Heb 10:23-31; Heb 12:1-2; Rev 21:8,27; Rev 22:14-15]

Beautiful Lamb

“Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1:29

By Gary Miller

Beautiful Lamb of God, guiltless and pure as snow,
Gentle and merciful, beautiful Lamb of God.
Sent from the Father’s love,
Sent from the throne above,
Sent to redeem us with His blood.

Beautiful Lamb of God, guiltless and pure as snow,
Gentle and merciful, beautiful Lamb of God.
Behold the Lamb of God
Suff’ring great pain for us,
And by His wounds we all are healed.

Beautiful Lamb of God, guiltless and pure as snow,
Gentle and merciful, beautiful Lamb of God.
Like sheep we’ve gone astray,
Each turn to his own way,
But Jesus will take our sins away.

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be(t)et lamed resh said:

["The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you.]

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How ironic it is that a Pharisee being honest with the text ends up refuting the mistake in the Greek text in this instance.

Matthew 23:3 Shem Tov
3 ועתה כל אשר יאמר לכם שמרו ועשו ובתקנותיהם ומעשיהם אל תעשו שהם אומרים והם אינם עושים

We know even from patristic evidence, from the testimonies of the so-called "church fathers", that the Gospel of Matthew was originally written in Hebrew. In the above instance the yod makes the difference in the form of amar highlighted in red in the above text.

ועתה כל אשר יאמר לכם
Therefore all which he says to you...

Meaning: Therefore whatsoever he, (Mosheh), says to you...

Why? Because the whole point of the statement is this: who is the higher authority? Mosheh? or the Scribes and Pharisees who sit in his seat? If the Scribes and the Pharisees sit in the seat of Mosheh then they confess by default that Mosheh is of a higher authority than they themselves. Once one sees and understands this, and chooses to believe it, the error in the Greek translation of a Hebrew text becomes quite obvious: not only that but the correction resolves all of the issues which the error in the Greek text has caused in the understanding of the whole passage which follows in this same chapter.

Rethinking primacy in an ecumenical sense - Vatican News

There is an attempt to soften the papacy. Perhaps this document is being prepared as a basis for participation in the joint celebration of Easter in Nicaea in 2025.

Question: Is Pope Francis softening the papacy?

daq said:

There is a more complete history of Zekaryah the Kohen to be found in Apocalypse Yakob, (a.k.a. the Protoevangelium of James). They slew Zekaryah the Kohen, (ben Berekyah, son of the Blessing of Yah), between the altar and the naos, meaning that they slit his throat, (the altar is the adamah-soil of the heart and the naos is the mind or house of the Most High).

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daq said:

MATTHIAS BEN THEOPHILUS:​

Name of two high priests.
1. The successor of Simon ben Boethus, and, unlike the other high priests appointed by Herod, who were foreigners, a native of Jerusalem (Josephus, "Ant." xvii. 4, § 2). On the eve of a Day of Atonement—for the priest the most important time in the year—he had become ritually unclean, and consequently was unable to perform the duties of his office, which were discharged instead by his kinsman Joseph ben Ellem ("Ant." xvii. 6, § 4). This occurrence is mentioned in the Talmud (Tosef., Yoma, i. 4; Yoma 12b; Yer. Yoma 38d), although the name of Matthias ben Theophilus is omitted. His deposition, however, was not due to this cause, but to the fact that he was supposedto have been implicated in the insurrection when the golden eagle was pulled down from the gate of the Temple (see Judah ben Zippori). His tenure of office lasted only one or two years (5-4 B.C.).

MATTHIAS BEN THEOPHILUS - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

Concerning Herod: when his wings of an eagle were plucked, (with axes).

Josephus, Ant. XVII, 6:3-4
3. And with such discourses as this did these men excite the young men to this action; and a report being come to them that the king was dead, this was an addition to the wise men's persuasions; so, in the very middle of the day, they got upon the place, they pulled down the eagle, and cut it into pieces with axes, while a great number of the people were in the temple. And now the king's captain, upon hearing what the undertaking was, and supposing it was a thing of a higher nature than it proved to be, came up thither, having a great band of soldiers with him, such as was sufficient to put a stop to the multitude of those who pulled down what was dedicated to God; so he fell upon them unexpectedly, and as they were upon this bold attempt, in a foolish presumption rather than a cautious circumspection, as is usual with the multitude, and while they were in disorder, and incautious of what was for their advantage; so he caught no fewer than forty of the young men, who had the courage to stay behind when the rest ran away, together with the authors of this bold attempt, Judas and Matthias, who thought it an ignominious thing to retire upon his approach, and led them to the king. And when they were come to the king, and he asked them if they had been so bold as to pull down what he had dedicated to God, "Yes, (said they), what was contrived we contrived, and what hath been performed we performed it, and that with such a virtuous courage as becomes men; for we have given our assistance to those things which were dedicated to the majesty of God, and we have provided for what we have learned by hearing the law; and it ought not to be wondered at, if we esteem those laws which Moses had suggested to him, and were taught him by God, and which he wrote and left behind him, more worthy of observation than thy commands. Accordingly we will undergo death, and all sorts of punishments which thou canst inflict upon us, with pleasure, since we are conscious to ourselves that we shall die, not for any unrighteous actions, but for our love to religion." And thus they all said, and their courage was still equal to their profession, and equal to that with which they readily set about this undertaking. And when the king had ordered them to be bound, he sent them to Jericho, and called together the principal men among the Jews; and when they were come, he made them assemble in the theater, and because he could not himself stand, he lay upon a couch, and enumerated the many labors that he had long endured on their account, and his building of the temple, and what a vast charge that was to him; while the Asamoneans, during the hundred and twenty-five years of their government, had not been able to perform any so great a work for the honor of God as that was; that he had also adorned it with very valuable donations, on which account he hoped that he had left himself a memorial, and procured himself a reputation after his death. He then cried out, that these men had not abstained from affronting him, even in his lifetime, but that in the very day time, and in the sight of the multitude, they had abused him to that degree, as to fall upon what he had dedicated, and in that way of abuse had pulled it down to the ground. They pretended, indeed, that they did it to affront him; but if any one consider the thing truly, they will find that they were guilty of sacrilege against God therein.

4. But the people, on account of Herod's barbarous temper, and for fear he should be so cruel and to inflict punishment on them, said what was done was done without their approbation, and that it seemed to them that the actors might well be punished for what they had done. But as for Herod, he dealt more mildly with others [of the assembly] but he deprived Matthias of the high priesthood, as in part an occasion of this action, and made Joazar, who was Matthias's wife's brother, high priest in his stead. Now it happened, that during the time of the high priesthood of this Matthias, there was another person made high priest for a single day, that very day which the Jews observed as a fast. The occasion was this: This Matthias the high priest, on the night before that day when the fast was to be celebrated, seemed, in a dream, (7) to have conversation with his wife; and because he could not officiate himself on that account, Joseph, the son of Ellemus, his kinsman, assisted him in that sacred office. But Herod deprived this Matthias of the high priesthood, and burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition, with his companions, alive. And that very night there was an eclipse of the moon. (8)

https://ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-17.htm

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In my current ongoing study and investigation into the Gabriel Stone, now more commonly referred to as Hazon Gabriel, (A Vision of Gabriel), in the past few days I came to a section of the text, lines 25-27, which appear to have a correlation to the things mentioned in the above quoted posts. The Gabriel Stone was reportedly found on the northeastern, (Jordanian), side of the Salt Sea, (a.k.a, the Dead Sea, which is actually a misnomer because nowhere in scripture is it called dead). The script is extremely similar to several DSS scripts and the same time frame, (the so-called Herodian script meaning that era, but unfortunately the piece is unprovenanced).

The image files I have been using to transcribe the text, (now that I have completed the font), are graciously provided online, free for download, at the University of Southern California digital library. I will post the original file with a link to the page where it may be viewed and downloaded and offer my transcription and reading below, (there are also image files at the site of the current owner of the piece here: Jeselsohn Epigraphic Center).



In the next file, which is a clip from the above image file, (slightly turned about a degree and a half to make the text horizontal), I have highlighted the specific text I would like to address, which begins at about the middle of line 25. The full transcription for all of the lines shown, (24-28) is included at the bottom of the same image file.



The text likely reads as follows:

Hazon Gabriel 24-28
[24] His place! Yet a little abbreviated time it is, and I will shake
[25] the heavens and the earth. Behold, the glory of YHWH Elohim
[26] Tzabaoth, Elohei Yisrael: these are the seven chariots
[27] over the gates of Yerushalem and the gates of Yhudah, and they were appointed for the sake of
[28] the city, the workmanship of Mikael, and for all the loving ones who seek him.

This is the portion which appears to be related to this thread:

[25b] .......Behold, the glory of YHWH Elohim [26] Tzabaoth, Elohei Yisrael: these are the seven chariots [27] over the gates of Yerushalem and the gates of Yhudah.......

There is little doubt that this work originated at Dameshek, which is now better known by its modern Arabic name, Khirbet Qumran. If it was created before the events concerning the golden eagle, at the end of Herod's life, it condemns his actions before the fact: for the author, and thus the Tzadokim at Dameshek, clearly understood the gates of Yerushalem to have the glory of the Most High abiding over them in the form of the seven chariots mentioned in the passage above.

Moreover the author includes "the gates of Yhudah", and what might these be? For those who may not know Yerushalem was divided between tribe Benyamin and tribe Yhudah according to the scripture, and Benyamin is to the north of Yhudah: thus the gates of Yhudah in respect to the gates of Yerushalem would be the gates of the city facing the south because Yhudah is to the south of Benyamin. The author of this text therefore seemingly makes it a point to include the gate on the south which Josephus calls the gate of the Essenes, the same as in the OP topic, archeologically now located and proven, and it was discovered on the southwest side of the city facing Yhudah, no doubt being one of the gates of Yhudah.

Moreover, if the Gabriel Stone was created in the early first century, after the death of Herod and the golden eagle episode, then it appears that the author may have a beef with Herod and his actions, and the Malak Gabriel utterly rebukes the deeds of Herod on this account. The golden eagle would have been considered blasphemy and a direct affront to the Most High who set His Glory over the gates of the city of Yerushalem in the form of seven chariots according to the passage above: and yet the golden eagle which Herod had dedicated, he had it placed over one of the gates, displacing the Glory of the Most High with an idol image of gold over one of the gates of the city of Yerushalem.

Lastly, why would the author of this text have a personal beef with Herod over these events?
This too is explained in Apocalypse Yakob, (linked in the first quote box above).

Trogdor the Burninator said:

If you live in a city and have access to frequent and cheap public transport, and can summon a rideshare or a takeaway meal in a few minutes via your phone, I don't have trouble understanding why young people don't bother learning how to drive. Plus cars are more expensive to maintain and insure now than they were when I first got my licence. The world has changed.

For country kids - sure, I completely get the need to drive. From my observations of a few friends kids who took rural jobs, they all have their driver's licence.

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Knowing how to drive will be a necessity in the future. Haven't you ever seen a Mad Max movie?

This passage from Isaiah 55 is an urgent call to come to or to return to the Lord and to be restored to a right relationship with God. The people, evidently, were complacent and settled in their worldliness and wickedness, like some of us may be today. So, God asks us why we waste our money and energies on what will never satisfy us. He counsels us to come to him, and to receive his living water welling up in us unto eternal life, i.e. the Spirit of God, or else to receive spiritual refreshment and renewal.

The call is urgent, because we never know if we have tomorrow. We must turn from our sins, and turn to God via faith in Jesus Christ. God’s word will be fulfilled. He will pardon our sins when we turn from our wickedness, and we experience his grace and mercy. Then he will restore us and will bless us with great spiritual blessings. The return to God will be accompanied by much joy and peace, and it will produce much spiritual fruitfulness to the glory of God.

Seek the Lord

An Original Work / July 20, 2012
Based off Isaiah 55

“Come to Me all you who thirst; come to waters.
Listen to Me, and eat what’s good today,
And your soul will delight in richest of fare.
Give ear to Me, and you will live.
I have made an eternal covenant with you.
Wash in the blood of the Lamb.”

Seek the Lord while He may be found; call on Him.
Let the wicked forsake his way, in truth.
Let him turn to the Lord, and he will receive mercy.
Freely, God pardons him.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,”
declares the Lord, our God.

“My word that goes out of My mouth is truthful.
It will not return to Me unfulfilled.
My word will accomplish all that I desire,
And achieve the goal I intend.
You will go in joy and be led forth in peace.
The mountains will burst into song… before you,
And all of the trees clap their hands.”

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Today in America is a day that many people celebrate their earthly fathers. The day is called “Father’s Day,” which comes around every year in the month of June (Mother’s Day is in the month of May). But not all of us who live on the earth had or have fathers who we want to celebrate. And so my heart goes out to all people who had abusive fathers like I did, who exhaled hate and anger and abuse rather than love and kindness and tenderness.

So, on Father’s Day, when other people are celebrating their earthly fathers, I am celebrating my heavenly Father God, for he is the one who loved and cared for me and brought me up in his love and compassion and tenderness, and who introduced me to his only begotten Son Jesus Christ, who is the second person of our triune God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

For Jesus Christ gave his life up for us on a cross nearly 2000 years ago, in order that he might free us from our slavery to sin and give us new lives in him to be lived for his glory and in walks of obedience to his commands in holy living. And he fills our hearts with his love and joy and compassion, in caring about us and about our needs. And he gives us purpose and meaning to our lives, and value, and by faith in him we have a relationship with God the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ, like we have with no other.

For me, He is the Dad that I can celebrate, and that I can go to and talk with and who will listen to what I want to share with him, and who will speak tenderly his words of comfort and/or instruction and guidance and direction into my life. He doesn’t treat me like I am a nothing, or as though I am just someone to stomp on or to sin against, but he treats me as though I have value to him, and so he shares with me his heart and he lets me share in his work, too, in sharing with others the truth of the gospel of our salvation.

But he is not a Father to everyone who merely professes his name or who calls Jesus their “Lord.” He is a Father to those who fear him (stated here in the passage 3 times). And to fear the Lord is to honor and to value him, to give him respect and obedience and admiration. It is to do what he says we are to do, and to not be hearers of his word only. And it is to take his promises and his warnings seriously, to believe him, and then to behave accordingly. For if sin is what we practice, we will not inherit eternal life with God, regardless of what our lips profess.

But to have Jesus Christ as our Lord, and God the Father as our heavenly Dad, our lives must be surrendered to the Lord to do his will, and we must deny self, die daily to sin, and follow our Lord in obedience to his commands. And then we must seek his will and purpose for our lives, and then go where he sends us, and do as he says, and say whatever he gives us to say to whomever, in agreement with the Scriptures. For our lives now belong to him, and we are his possession to do his will and purpose for our lives.

For Jesus Christ did not give his life up for us on that cross merely to forgive us our sins and to promise us heaven when we die. And those things are conditional upon our obedience to his commands and us no longer walking in sin. But he died that we might die with him to sin and now live to him and to his righteousness, to do his will, as his children, and as his servants and messengers. For Jesus died so that our lives will now be changed and transformed away from living in sin to now living to please our heavenly Dad. So, embrace God as your Father, and now do as he says.

[Matt 7:21-23; Lu 9:23-26; John 1:12-13; John 6:44; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14; Rom 12:1-2; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 1 Co 10:1-22; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; Gal 5:16-24; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-32; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:1-17; Titus 2:11-14; 1 Jn 1:5-10; 1 Jn 2:3-6,24-25; 1 Jn 3:4-10; 1 Peter 1:15; 1 Pet 2:24; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 4:1-13; Heb 10:23-31; Heb 12:1-2; Rev 21:8,27; Rev 22:14-15]

Beautiful Lamb

“Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” John 1:29

By Gary Miller

Beautiful Lamb of God, guiltless and pure as snow,
Gentle and merciful, beautiful Lamb of God.
Sent from the Father’s love,
Sent from the throne above,
Sent to redeem us with His blood.

Beautiful Lamb of God, guiltless and pure as snow,
Gentle and merciful, beautiful Lamb of God.
Behold the Lamb of God
Suff’ring great pain for us,
And by His wounds we all are healed.

Beautiful Lamb of God, guiltless and pure as snow,
Gentle and merciful, beautiful Lamb of God.
Like sheep we’ve gone astray,
Each turn to his own way,
But Jesus will take our sins away.

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Bobber said:

Sometimes it's hard to try to encourage one for their problems are so great and any encouragement sounds so glib. None the less there is a way for such people it may take some time, but God can continually do moves to improve your situation. In Habakkuk 3 we see an example of one going through things where EVERYTHING was wrong and getting worse. He still locked into however this one way of thinking.....he was going to walk in joy and praise of God even though everything in his natural mind would almost not be able to accept it. He did it anyway and continued to do so.....to the positive end result that you see below.

Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls:18Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation.19The LORD God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds' feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places. Habakkuk 3 17,19

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"Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him." —Job

Not all of us can celebrate
The fathers that we had on earth,
For some of us had fathers grim,
From the first day our moms gave birth.

Our lives with “Dad,” oh, they were sad,
We feared him much when he got mad.
We never knew when he’d lash out,
So we were scared, without a doubt.

But then we learned of Jesus’ love,
And of our Father up above,
And of the love they have for us,
And that brought comfort, we felt loved.

And so in absence of the man,
Who was my father, flesh in hand,
My Father God did take his place,
He is the Dad I celebrate.

Father’s Day in America
An Original Work / June 16, 2024

Sketcher said:

When Jacob did it, he ended up with a limp for the rest of his life. Perhaps wrestling with God isn't the best idea.

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A sword will pierce your heart. Luke 2:35.

I think Mary had to wrestle that when that happened. I'm hurt already. He shares in my suffering and comforts me.

His presence shall be a gift which He already promised, not an outcome of my wrestling. It's just about the waiting part.

tonychanyt said:

Attend more different Christian groups to cast a wider net

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Good advice!