In January 1948, a plane crashed in central California's Los Gatos Canyon, killing 28 migrant farm workers and four flight crew members. Newspaper accounts provided the names of the crew members, but referred to the 28 migrant workers, who had been ordered deported to Mexico, simply as "Mexicans" or "deportees." The migrant workers -- the deportees -- were buried anonymously in a mass grave, nameless and forgotten. They were not treated as human beings, but as "illegal aliens." They weren't persons, but statistics.

This plane crash motivated folk singer/songwriter Woody Guthrie to write perhaps his second-most famous song (after "This Land is Your Land"), "Deportee: Plane Wreck at Los Gatos." The song has been recorded by many artists over the years, including, Judy Collins, The Kingston Trio, Joni Mitchell, Joan Baez, Nanci Griffith and The Byrds. Guthrie protested the dehumanizing way that the migrant workers were treated, including failure even to acknowledge their names:

"Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye Rosalita,
Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria;
You won't have your names when you ride the big airplane,
All they will call you will be 'deportees.'"

Continued below.

Michie said:

Sure it does Riles.

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I don’t think either one told take roasting well

I don’t really support conversion therapy, but talk therapy with those with unwanted same sex attractions.

Desk trauma said:

Like I said, enforcing their sexual morality is more important than reducing abortions.

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I’m not saying you’re wrong.

I will leave it at that.

Honest discussion question:

A Catholic employer doesn't have to offer a full health care benefits program, gets to ask why I want time off and not give it to me if they don't want to, and gets to make medical decisions for me.

Why would anyone want to work for a Catholic employer?

The headline is a bit clickbaity - they don't actually talk about Vance a ton, or even the debate prep. More of the discussion was about trust in institutions, wherein I thought Mayor Pete did a good job articulating some of the successes and failures of both parties, and where the Dems have opportunities.

The transcript is just an excerpt. You have to listen to the interview to get the entire thing.

KevinT said:

Not late, just right on time.

So are you involved in the Dr. Meek directly? Or just following along a program he put together? Thanks for the reply.

KT

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I do not know Dr. Meek personally. He is in charge of daily devotionals for the month of September. Next month a different professor will present the monthly daily devotional. Last month was my favorite. It was on the book of Job by Dr. Eric Moore.

tranquil said:

The Isaiah 7 & 8 sign of Immanuel is for the end. It is the same context as this from Isaiah 17:

1This is the burden against Damascus: “Behold, Damascus is no longer a city; it has become a heap of ruins. 2The cities of Aroer are forsaken; they will be left to the flocks, which will lie down with no one to fear.​

​

3The fortress will disappear from Ephraim, and the sovereignty from Damascus. The remnant of Aram will be like the splendor of the Israelites,”​

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This happened during the time of Ahaz, prior to the reign of Hezekiah. It was significant because the dominant threat against Judah at that time was the alliance of the northern kingdom (now occupied by Hezbollah in Lebanon) and the kingdom of Aram (current day Syria with its capital in Damascus). The sign of Immanuel was an assurance that God was with Judah and would end both countries before the child could know right and wrong. That occurred when Assyria conquered both nations.

Prior to Hezbollah, there were internal conflicts in both Lebanon and Syria, causing the Jews to flee to the nation of Israel. By the time Hezbollah came, there were virtually no Jews left in those areas. Hezbollah, like Assyria, has created so many problems for both Syria and Lebanon, even overthrowing control of the countries from their governments. This, I believe, is how we should be interpreting this

tranquil said:

When Damascus is no longer a city, then the flocks lie down with no one to fear (the same as the Isaiah 7 &8 child gets to eat curds and honey because the cows and bees get increased land for pasture) and in the same context of being in alliance with Ephraim.

The Rev 12:1 child and the sign of Immanuel 'child' that is being born symbolizes the kingdom of heaven (at the 7th Trumpet) which is here in Isaiah 66

7“Before she was in labor, she gave birth; before she was in pain, she delivered a boy. 8Who has heard of such as this? Who has seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be delivered in an instant? Yet as soon as Zion was in labor, she gave birth to her children. ​

​

9Shall I bring a baby to the point of birth and not deliver it?” says the LORD. “Or will I who deliver close the womb?” says your God.​

10Be glad for Jerusalem and rejoice over her, all who love her. Rejoice greatly with her, all who mourn over her,​

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The child is Zion (Genesis 37:9-10) waiting for her Messiah to come (Micah 4:9-11). I think we'll see it all fit together well very soon.

Hazelelponi said:

I'm coming from the Calvinist perspective that says anyone who is saved is indeed in the assembly of the elect.

That's what your missing. It doesn't matter what we experience or see, all who are saved are the elect.

Do you think you chose to accept Christ? Boom, one more of God's elect is home.

God is sovereign.

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If all saved are elect chosen before the foundation of the world, that means their names were written in the book of life "since the foundation of the world" and can never be blotted out.

So how is it there are names in the book of life that can be blotted out?

"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Rev. 3:5 NKJ)

Logically, as the Elect's names cannot be blotted out, these names that can be blotted do not belong to the Elect. Another class of people, who aren't elect, are also among the saved.

Again, Paul says the "elect" obtained salvation, but the rest (=non elect) were blinded but later saved. Therefore, The Elect+The saved Blinded+The saved Gentiles=The Fullness:

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day."
9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always."
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles.
12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! (Rom. 11:7-12 NKJ)

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins."
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,
31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. (Rom. 11:26-32 NKJ)

The Elect+The saved Blinded+The Gentiles= The Fullness, "All Israel...saved".

Among these "blinded" were those who died "enemies of the gospel", but at Christ's second coming they are delivered. God has mercy on all who believe, whether in this life or the afterlife.

So everyone saved was not "of the Elect", some of the "non-Elect" were also saved because they repented and believed.

rambot said:

Sorry. You say this as if the 3$ minimum wage MAGICALLY Started this kind of shopping sprees and also, as if they were the cause.

The issue with that kind of theft cannot be simplified to say "not tough enough on crime". It's too expensive to live there so people choose that way to supplement their income. No it's not right.

But maybe the artificially inflated house market prices due to massive housing corporations buying up disproportionately huge swaths of the market has something to do with it. There are a litany of reasons and the "hard on crime' folk beat to one drum. But sadly, it's not always gonna work.

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No, I'm not saying the wage increase was the cause, I'm saying that the wage increase doesn't offset the other stuff in the minds of some folks.

It's two separate sets of policy lanes.


It'd be like if a particular party
A) Pushed for firemen to get 15% raises
but also
B) Pushed to relax fire codes and restrictions that ended up making the firemen's jobs much more hectic and stressful than it already was.


Some would probably prefer to forego A, in order to not have to deal with the negative effects of B.

rambot said:

Recidivism with youth in "tough on crime" approach:
This data really shouldn't be a surprise.

This is a very interesting read that gives the "Broken windows" theory some merit but limited. It also provided several other possible reasons for New York's success through the 90s; including its' economic success.

Some people seem to think that "some people are just gonna steal"...and that's true. But a LOT of people really would rather not. I'd actually argue most people would rather not steal if they had access to jobs and salaries that supported them (though yes, I can accept that can also be a complicating factor).

Tough on crime fulfills the human need to seek justice. But it doesn't necessarily improve a society. Now, I also say that with having been to Singapore; the place where it's 1000$ fine to stick gum onto something or whatever. And my goodness, the place is orderly, clean...immaculate.

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Firstly, from the footage I've seen of some of these mass lootings other things that are happening, it's not juveniles responsible for most of it, its opportunistic adults.

And while I can accept the fact that there are some down on their luck folks who probably feel like they have no choice, that sympathy is limited to people stealing necessities. If you look at some of the footage that local news outlets release of some of the "looting flash mob" occurrences that were happening, they weren't stealing bread and food staples, they were stealing non-essentials. There's no sympathetic tone warranted for a group of 6 people sprinting into a Sephora or Bath & Body words to steal body spray and lotions...or like the Best Buy incident in Cali where a group of a dozen people sprinted in, busted open the PS5 game case, and ran back out holding as many video games as they could carry.



There's a difference between what's pejoratively referred to as the "tough on crime" vs. being too soft on crime. While I would agree that someone shouldn't be getting 15 years in prison for stealing a blu ray player... at that same time, reducing it to a slap on the wrist "catch & release" misdemeanor with the rationale of "it's not that big a deal, the store owners have insurance, they can just file a claim". There was that story out of Philly where a Footlocker was looted twice in the same day, and there were some of the same people involved in both incidents. Which means they were caught, arrested, processed, and released back out into the wild and literally went back and hit the same store again that same day.

That indicates the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction.


To use an analogy. If a person gets caught drunk driving but didn't hurt anyone, a life sentence is obviously way too harsh...however, a slap on the wrist $50 fine and no further consequences beyond that would be way too soft.

Tempura said:

Will do. How are you now sister?

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Thank you. I'm doing okay, but not great. I've gone through a divorce since I last posted, and I have no income of my own since I still don't have my SSI. Thankfully, I am getting child support so that does help, but my Mom is also having to help me with a lot of stuff. I had to move to a new city, which I didn't want to do because I only had a short time to find a new place to live. Thankfully, I'm living in a subsidized apartment where I don't currently pay any rent, so I have no income. I just got approved for Medicaid again, so that's a blessing. I'm trying to get approved for food stamps as well, but I've been having a bit of difficulty getting the papers they need. I also lost my wallet which had my ID in it and my social security card. It also had my Medicaid cards and Colton's stuff in it too. Thankfully, I still have my passport which I can use for identification. Please continue to keep me in your prayers.

KCfromNC said:

I guess it opens up the discussion to what other candidate's daughters think about them, for one thing.

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Or nieces...

Thank you all for the insights. I appreciate it.

Luis Armando Albino was 6 when a woman abducted him in 1951 while he was playing at a park in California with his older brother, only reuniting with his family seven decades later thanks to the determination of his 63-year-old niece.

Albino, now a retired firefighter, grandfather and Marine Corps veteran who served in Vietnam, was missing for over 70 years but his family never forgot him. The man's relatives kept photos of him, and while his mother passed away in 2005 before she could see him again, she never lost hope that her son was still alive.

As The Mercury News reported Friday, Alida Alequin is the retired firefighter's 63-year-old niece. Alequin started to suspect that her uncle was alive in 2020 after she took an online DNA test "just for fun." The test showed that she had a 22% match with the man who turned out to be her uncle.

Continued below.

In an address to the United Nations’ “Summit of the Future” in New York, Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Holy See’s secretary of state, emphasized the need for promoting the dignity of the human person and voiced the Vatican’s disapproval of the assembly’s promotion of abortion and gender ideology.

Parolin addressed U.N. members gathered for the summit on Monday. Though praising summit attendees for engaging in dialogue, Parolin commented that there is a “need to rethink actions in a number of areas.”

The cardinal voiced the Vatican’s concerns with a document titled “Pact for the Future,” which was passed by summit attendees on Sunday. He said that “in conformity with its nature and particular mission, [the Holy See] wishes to express its reservations” regarding the assembly’s promotion of abortion and gender ideology.

Continued below.

Pope Francis at his general audience on Wednesday called pornography a work of the devil, and warned Christians to reject this and other temptations accessed through the internet.

“Any cell phone has access to this brutality, this language of the devil,” the pope said at the weekly audience in St. Peter’s Square Sept. 25.

While modern technology has many positive resources to appreciate, he noted, it also gives the devil an opportunity to tempt us, “and many people fall for it.”

“Think of internet pornography, which there is a thriving market behind,” he continued. “We all know the devil works there.”

Pope Francis spoke about pornography and how to avoid the temptation to sin during the 500th general audience of his pontificate.

Addressing thousands at the Vatican, he said pornography “is a very widespread phenomenon, but one that Christians must be very careful to guard against and strongly reject.”

Continued below.

Some Australian women have been waiting over a year for rather small individual payouts following a class action againts Johnson and Johnson for mesh implants.

But Shine Justice has done very well thank you.

The costs summary which Shine submitted to the Federal Court for approval in June 2020 shows that one of Shine's senior counsel was charging $17,000 a day.

His fees alone equalled more than $3.5 million.

Under "miscellaneous", Shine claimed almost $2 million.

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A similar system applies to Workers Compenstation payouts.

Although personal injury lawyers do not charge on a percentage basis, they cannot charge more than 50% of the net settlement amount.

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Great for the lawyers!

stevevw said:

Ok thanks. Yes Christ is the image of God in that He was God on earth and not made in Gods image like humans which I think reflects God rather than is God. Being God He never sinned and can have no evil in Him. But we humans do.

Christ also said He is God, that He is immanuel God made flesh among us. That is different to being made in Gods image which has qualities of God created in us as created beings we have fallen and sin. Christ was not created, He always has been and will be. So in that sense He is what created our image.

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Hi Stevevw
Thank you for your reply yes Christ is the son of God he also said he was the son of man which man was he the son of it was not Joseph God was his Father so that leaves Israel the man in Gods image Christs elder brother this to fulfil the scriptures the elder brother will kill the younger the story of Cain and Able history repeating itself.

Love and Peace
Dave

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I really liked what the military guy says at 4:50 and what Dr Phil says after.

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Welcome back to Battle Stations

We are back after our twelve week trip to the UK and Europe, thanks especially to those who hosted us, you know who you are and we also had the privilege of fellowshipping at several churches including my home church and meeting new fellowships and friends, we even had church in the forest in Norway. We visited not only the UK, but Norway, Prague, Austria, Rome, Florence and Pisa, we give thanks for a safe trip.

Please pray for my dear cousin Elaine, who was our main host, she needs fervent prayer as she has trouble walking and has two autistic children, who are so loving, but can be a real handful at times. She needs real help and deep prayer for salvation.

Continue to pray for my wife and daughter, re sleep issues.

Continue to pray for Pastor Z as he leads eight churches including ours and for deep and powerful wisdom on his decisions.

Please pray for Sister X, who runs a dance group, this is her outreach and many ladies have been touched with the gospel through this.

Please pray for the few men in the church, again they need deep prayer. Pray that more men would come, many of the sisters have unsaved husbands and they need teaching on how to reach them, many husbands have closed hearts, because the wives are constantly at meetings and throw their faith down the husbands throats.


We have a few young people, continue ask God to bring more into the church.

Praise God, I have two more online students, continue to pray for two more online students.

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FameBright said:

If faith/belief came before baptism then I'd probably start questioning the legitimacy of my own baptism and I assume many other Christians would too. So if I didn't have enough faith at the time i was baptized, would I need to be baptized again?

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Well, the examples we have in the New Testament include the Ethiopian, who was told that if he believed with all his heart he could be baptized. So it certainly should be a definite belief. So it's not the amount of faith, but how definite the faith is that we have in Jesus Christ.

FameBright said:

Also, If this were also the case, shouldn't Pastors make this a requirement for those waiting to be baptized?

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Yes, although in my experience, it is not the pastor alone who would check this. As far as possible, churches should ensure that candidates for baptism do indeed believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

FameBright said:

As far as the jailer at Philippi and his family, what I got from that was baptism was still a requirement even after you believe.

In Acts 19:1-6 it sure does seem to say that repentance and baptism comes first then you go on on to believing in Jesus and be baptized by the fire and Holy Spirit.

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No, those verses are talking about people who had already believed in Jesus. Verse 1 talks about them as disciples, and verse 2 refers to them as those who believed.

FameBright said:

Also, why would Catholics baptize babies?

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I'm not a Roman Catholic, but I think it's because they believe baptism makes the baby a Christian.

FameBright said:

Paul talks about baptism being an initiation in to the Christ family and the new "circumcision". Did babies have to believe before they were circumcised?

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Yes he does, but he also writes about this new circumcision like this:

“28 For he is not a Jew who [is one] outwardly, nor [is] circumcision that which [is] outward in the flesh; 29 but [he is] a Jew who [is one] inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise [is] not from men but from God.” (Ro 2:28-29 NKJV)

Circumcision of the heart happens as somebody is converted, i.e. at the time they come to faith.

FameBright said:

As far as becoming Christians first:
To convert to Judaism in OT days, did they convert to Judaism first before they proclaimed the faith, did the water immersion (mikvah), and then circumcised?

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I don't think converts to Judaism in OT times had to be baptized, but I am not absolutely certain.

FameBright said:

I hear people a lot including Pastors that say that you have to be saved first or your heart has to be in a certain condition before being baptized and I can't seem to really find anything that definitively supports that.

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I can only repeat what Philip said to the Ethiopian about believing with all his heart.

To be honest I get a bit cynical about "God is love" sometimes.

Even my old pastor had his doubts. I mentioned the "God is love" phrase and he said "I sometimes wonder if it is true. He seems to write people off pretty easily".

I'll admit I was in an irritated mood this morning and started to express my anger verbally in the confines of my car (by myself).

There's been a certain amount of frustration on a personal basis, but I started thinking about North Korea and the LONG suffering people there.

The Kim family started ruling North Korea in 1948 and they've had an iron clad grasp on the nation and people ever since. That's 76 years.

Christians have been persecuted the whole time, and the people are slaves in their own country.

Now, if God is love, why is this allowed to continue? As far as I know God has the power - we're always singing about it, praising His name etc.

How often do we see it used for justice?

HARK! said:

Did you miss the fact that that the statement was not a meme?

Did you miss the fact that the statement was about the perpetrators, not the victims?

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I'm acknowledging the fact that a gruesome crime was referenced in jest for a political point and some christians thought it was funny.

~bella