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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

It does not say "in justified terror"

God displays His love , His sacrifice for mankind, His repeated wave after wave of mercy.

The lost finally see life as it really is, God as He really is, sin as it really is, and they confess God is love, God did the right thing. It was Satan who was the liar and the wicked admit that they chose evil not righteousness. God's judgment is just. He is both loving and just.

Phil 2 does not say "claim you love Me or I will torture you some more".

Rather at the great White throne judgment in Rev 20 -- all is revealed. Satan's lies unmasked. The truth told and when all can be seen plainly even the wicked confess that God was right, He is loving, His way is just and it is just plain stupid the ideas that Satan came up with.

Yet their characters are unchanged, their love of self remains just a strong as it ever was - in the case of the wicked.
Why do you think that " their characters are unchanged" ? Did not your character change when you saw Jesus for who he truly is? If so why would you think that they would be any different?
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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

God could easily "force Lucifer not to make a single mistake"
HE could also have "forced 1/3 of the angels to not join Lucifer"
He could have "Forced Eve not to make a bad choice"
He could have "forced Adam not to join Eve" and that would have saved all the lost humanity and all the suffering of Christ on the cross for the sins of all the world.

But He chose free will instead.

That means all the redeemed saints and all the sinless angels are there in heaven - in all of eternity, in the New Earth etc -- of their free will , loving God with all their heart and loving their neighbor as themselves --- not as part of a rigged-system but out of the abundant provision in the gospel and a "God of Love" who does not force beings to love or serve Him.
I would ask why do you believe God has to force people to believe in him, once you have experienced his love and see him as he is, you will fall on your face with reverent worship, God doesn't need to force anyone.
The problem is that most people have so much darkness in them that they can't see him for who he is or they have been taught a false Jesus and they can't bring themselves to worship the false god that they have been told about or see in others who claim to know Jesus.
God/Jesus?Spirit are worth worship just because of who they are they do not need to force anyone, that's just the way we were created.
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Historicity of the change of the Sabbath Commandment

As if is that like agreeing to obey the traffic laws, and start with stopping at stop signs and <after mastering> that one to then start stopping at red lights ?!
Perhaps you might want to present that to Paul who said that love is the fulfillment of the law (Romans 13:8) or Jesus who defined the Law for us as only two commandments - Love God and love your neighbor.

Curiously, I find myself in obedience to the ten commandments as the direct effect of my feeble attempt to love my neighbor as myself. I have not murdered anyone, nor coveted anything belonging to my neighbor, nor committed adultery, etc. To take your analogy, one might say, that the law requires me to pay my property taxes, leaving me free to not worry about income taxes, sales taxes, and the host of other taxes imposed by the government. However, if, as scripture says, to render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, then obedience to all government laws is required. Moreover, this is merely a small subset of loving my neighbor. Like it or not, government in all of its manifestations is but one type of my neighbor. My neighbor also includes all of the social pariahs that righteous folks detest - murderers, adulterers, prostitutes, tax collectors, rapists, sexual predators, homosexuals, transgender folks, etc., etc., etc.
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The Saints will meet the Lord in the air, not Rapture, at Jesus second coming, this is the first Resurrection

GREAT is your reward IN HEAVEN" Matt 5:12
I believe Heaven is wherever our Father is at any time.

we do not receive HIM as though HE were coming to where we live - to stay here with us.
I believe so, for the 1000 years.

This verse (along with many others) makes no sense if Christ were returning and then turning right back to Heaven

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

He's bringing them.

Matt 6 "Oh Father who IS IN HEAVEN"
Heb 11 Abraham was looking for a "HEAVENLY city"
John 14:1-3 I GO To prepare A PLACE For you .. I will come again and RECEIVE you (not JOIN you here on Earth)
Again, it does not say I will come again and take you to Heaven.

is not about the second coming - it is about the presence of the resurrected Christ with us here - while we are alive .. before the end of all things -

I stated the same. That's what "mansions/abode implies. Especially if we take all of the verses in context.

That John 14:23 state,emt is about our present state as Christians, our present walk with Christ as we see in Rom 8:13-16.
Again, I stated the same with this

Mansions/mone means -"a staying" i.e. residence. And it can be the place or the act. A place to abode. We can even find that today according to the rest of the verses in that chapter when he talks about the Comforter. But when Christ returns he will receive us unto himself.

The word "abode" in this verse is the very same Greek word that's translated "mansions" in the earlier verse-mone. And we know today we that's who we should be abiding in -Christ. That's the "staying" that's the rest we find in Christ. All of these verses need to be read in order to get the full context of what Christ is stating. Even the word "house" one of the words in the Greek meaning is "abode" which can be figuratively or literally.

and the Bible does not teach that.
I believe it teaches Christ returns to the earth. It doesn't state anywhere in the bible that Christ returns and takes anyone to Heaven when he returns.

Heaven is our home"
I believe in "paradise" at this point. But I believe we will reside on the new earth for the eternity.

That happens in Rev 21 - after the 1000 years, after the great white throne judgment of Rev 20 and lake of fire event.
I believe so as well.

So you believe that the 1000 years is in Heaven?

We are told that those who overcome will be given power over the nations, not the angels

Revelation 2:26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"

Revelation 2:27 "And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father."


This lines up with these verses

Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

And that would also imply that you believe Christ returns two more times, once before the 1000 years and again afterwards and I don't see the scriptures stating that.
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Trump suggests he’ll release Jeffrey Epstein ‘client list’ if elected: ‘I’d have no problem with it’

Mr Dershowitz doesn't believe Epstein's cheif groomer of underage girls should be in prison?
Hes up to his neck in Epstein stuff. Hard to take him seriously.
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6,000 Years?

Hi
Bean thinking if a unbeliever came in here looking for answers I think he would be very disappointed seeing everyone fighting and bickering like little kids in a sand pit who could make the biggest sand castle.
That we have different opinions on how to interpret the scriptures but we must interpret then so that they comply with all of scripture not jest part of it so we should word our answers in a way that is not offensive.

Love and Peace
Dave
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Malevolent vs. benevolent dispositions and conservative political ideology in the Trump era

The rise of Trump has led me to believe that America has become more and more callous with disregard to the most needy. I've recently been looking into this area and found this. It's relatively recent in a decently respected Journal. This snippet sums it up quite well.
  • Conservative political ideology represented by symbolic and operational ideology and positive view of Trump
  • Psychopathic traits and malevolent disposition predicted increased conservative political ideology
  • Benevolent disposition predicted decreased conservative ideology--i.e., more liberal ideology
  • Those viewing Trump favorably reported elevated malevolent and reduced benevolent dispositions, and less empathy

Clearly, this not saying that all Trump supporters are psychopaths.
I don't think it is most of America. Lets narrow this down .
It is a known fact that among the 48% of the electorate who are conservative voters, 84% identify as Christian, and half are aligned with the current movement. So what is implied here is why so many Christians have chosen to align themselves with this demagoguery. Why follow a leader who appeals to emotions, prejudices, and fears rather than to their rational thought , empathy and wisdom?
Regrettably, this reasoning is deeply flawed, stemming from eschatological error. It mistakenly places an earthly leader in the improbable position of ushering the world into the Kingdom of God.

Blessings
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Family gives ‘Da Pope’ Chicago Bears T-shirt to Pope Leo XIV

Bit old hat now, but a few months ago we had an American Catholic pianist singer-songwriter give a tutorial on music for the mass. I went along to listen with a few others from our parish.

The bloke who introduced him to us is a musician and song writer in his own right. He said the American chap had commented "Whoever they elect for Pope, you can be sure he won't be an American!"

That got a laugh.
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Dismantling Judeo-Christian values in America

What are Judeo-Christian values being dismantled?
Dignity of Human Life:
.Both faiths stress the inherent value and worth of every human being, stemming from the belief that humans are created in the image of God. This principle is reflected in the commandment "You shall not murder" and the concept of loving one's neighbor as oneself.

Importance of Love and Compassion:
.The Golden Rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is a central tenet in both Judaism and Christianity, highlighting the importance of love, empathy, and treating others with kindness and respect, according to the BYU Religious Studies Center.

Higher Moral Law:
.Both religions believe in a divine law that serves as a foundation for human laws and morality. This belief in a higher law underpins concepts like natural law, which suggests that certain rights and moral principles are inherent and not dependent on human creation.

Concept of Justice and Fairness:
.Judaism and Christianity both emphasize the importance of justice, fairness, and treating all individuals equitably. These concepts are often reflected in legal codes and ethical guidelines within each faith.


Well, we have never been perfect in any of these but I think we have made progress. At least we no longer condone slavery.


When I hear or see "Judeo-Christian values" what comes to mind is justice, care for the poor, hospitality and love.

Don't you find it strange that these values didn't begin to regress until the idea of "Judeo-Christianity" became popularized in the latter 20th century? (when abortion, pornography, and moral degeneracy of all kinds began to flourish)

just a coincidence i guess
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Anyone have good arguments against Calvinism.

That is "My Book", they are "My words".
I don’t know you. Would have been nice if you would have stated as such.
What makes you think that I am Catholic? I am not.
Never did I assumed that as I qualified my statement “as a loose association” meaning an example.
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Anyone have good arguments against Calvinism.

We "daily" need to avoid sin. This is a "work", that we put effort into. We do this in respect for the LORD, and the reality that if we don't persist in righteousness, we can fall. No one denies sanctification. But Calvinism denies God's word that we can fall.
I will posit to you that all born again Christians avoid sin as much as being in the flesh allows (Rom 7).

As far as falling, Paul describes how the believers are judged based on their works in 1 Cor. 3:10-15. Salvation is assured for the believers.
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Ozzy Osbourne has died

You're a "team Rhodes" guy from the sounds of it? lol


Queued it up to the solo, Jake was a pretty stellar "axe-man"
He sure was. But Rhodes has an extra level of compositional awareness and ability. You know he double tracked all his solos?

Plus he had this touch that I think comes from his classical (rather than blues) background, where every note duration feels really precise, making all these fast complex difficult parts feel measured and unrushed and unslurred. You'd think that would diminish the thrill of it, but I get the opposite sensation.
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I believe that ALL who ever lived will be in God’s Kingdom

Better to think the best for every person, and damn the devils to hell.
The lake of fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Meaning they have been judged. They are not in the book of life. So you're understanding of the verses below is way off. They are already set for the lake of fire that was prepared for them. But people will follow them there as we see in this verse

Matthew 25:41 "Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels :

Note, he's not talking to the devil and his angels.


Revelation 20:13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works

Revelation 20:14
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."


Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

They were not in the book of life so common sense tells us this is about people, not the devil and his angels who again are already set for the lake of fire.
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Malevolent vs. benevolent dispositions and conservative political ideology in the Trump era

It's unfortunately a foundational myth, enshrined as a norm within the so-called "American Dream" and it goes all the way back to the political ideology that made the American Revolution what it was.

It's time for us to let go of revolutionary ideals (...with a poo-storm of alleged citations of Genetic Fallacy on my part not withstanding).
It's good to agree with you for a change ;)
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Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

Flat or Round Earth? Final Truth from Faith, Science & Scripture​

Introduction: Why Are We Still Debating This?


Let’s be honest—this whole flat Earth vs round Earth debate seems endless, right? You’ve probably heard all kinds of arguments on forums, YouTube, and even in Christian circles. Some folks claim the Bible supports a flat Earth, while others say science has already proven it’s round.


I’ve been there—digging through Scripture, watching those “experiments,” even praying for clarity. So, I decided to write this post for you—to give you a faith-filled, truth-seeking, and science-backed answer to this big question:
Is the Earth flat or round—and does it even matter to our faith?

What Does the Bible Really Say About Earth’s Shape?

Interpreting Scripture the Right Way​


The Bible isn’t a science textbook—but that doesn’t mean it’s silent on creation.

Verses Often Cited by Flat Earth Believers​


Flat Earth supporters argue these are literal. But context matters. Revelation is apocalyptic literature—symbolic, not scientific. Isaiah, on the other hand, uses the Hebrew word chug (חוּג), meaning circle, not square or flat plane.


"Circle" suggests roundness—not a flat square.

Hebrew Cosmology vs. Modern Misreadings​


Ancient writers used poetic and visual language to explain what they observed. They weren’t contradicting science—they were simply describing God’s creation through their eyes. And guess what? The idea of a spherical Earth wasn’t foreign to ancient scholars either.

What Does Science Say—And Why Should Christians Care?

Scientific Proof of a Round Earth​


You don’t have to be a NASA scientist to know this. Here’s some basic, observable proof:

Visual and Measurable Evidence​


  • Satellite images clearly show a round Earth.
  • Ships disappear over the horizon bottom first—not all at once.
  • During lunar eclipses, Earth casts a curved shadow on the Moon.
  • Time zones only exist because of a curved Earth rotating on its axis.

And let’s not forget gravity—a consistent downward force toward a center point, not a flat underside.

Does Believing the Earth is Round Undermine the Bible?


Nope. Not even close.


I’ve seen believers worry: "If I accept modern science, am I denying the Bible?"
The answer? Absolutely not. God's Word is spiritually infallible, and the truth of creation shines even brighter when we embrace both Scripture and observable reality.

Faith and Science Aren’t Enemies​


I believe God created this world. The Bible tells us who created the universe—science helps us see how. Together, they reveal a deeper awe for God’s genius.

Flat Earth Claims Debunked—One by One


Here’s a quick myth-busting table for easy reference:


Flat Earth ClaimReality Check
NASA fakes imagesThousands of images from global satellites and telescopes prove otherwise.
Horizon looks flatBecause of Earth’s massive size, curvature is subtle at ground level.
Bible says "four corners"Figurative language; the Bible often uses metaphors.
No curvature visible from planesPlanes fly too low to see noticeable curvature.

Common Questions from Christians


Is it wrong for Christians to believe in a round Earth?


Not at all. There’s nothing sinful about trusting in observable science.


Does believing in a flat Earth hurt my faith?


It may not harm your salvation, but it can weaken your credibility as a witness. When we reject clear truth, we can push seekers away.


Should I argue about this with others?


No need to debate in anger. Instead, offer love, reason, and Scripture.



So, What’s the Final Verdict?

The Earth is round.
And more importantly—God made it.

Whether you’re standing on a beach watching a ship fade over the horizon, or flying in a plane across time zones—you’re experiencing the beautiful, spherical world God designed.

Don’t let bad theology or internet theories distract you from the truth.
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Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

What do you mean by it's trustworthiness, do you mean is it safe to click on or what ?
I would have thought that the context of our discussion would show that I was not talking about internet security, but how trustworthy News 153 is as a source. For example, it posts a video saying that the moon landings were fake. Is that trustworthy, more trustworthy than the Christian testimony of Charles Duke?
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When The penny drops.

I think there are a number of reasons. Assuming we're talking about people who were committed Christians, JW's or whatever, what underpins the sea change in becoming atheist is "disillusionment" in some form. Maybe they had a personality clash with somebody, a bad experience, or did some research and found the teaching they'd received had been inadequate. And they would have had no experience of God.

As with any convert, to or from a religion, they tend to take their new faith, even atheism, more seriously than their previous belief. I've gone from Protestant to Catholic and I take it seriously. But then I've had the advantage of certain spiritual experiences which have left me in no doubt God and the devil exist. A lot of people don't.

St. Paul for instance didn't owe his conversion from Judaism to Christianity to theological arguments - Christ Himself made it very clear to Saul that He was alive and well. His theological insights came later as he put his rigorous pharisaical training to Christian use. When CS Lewis was being trained in the art of dialectical thinking, he was an atheist being taught by the atheist "Great Knock", William Kirkpatrick. But after his conversion he put this training to good use as a Christian apologist.

He went the other way - from atheist to Christian, and took it more seriously than his previous atheism.

As for atheist converts listening to or reading the works of public atheists, we all tend to follow the opinions of those who think the same way we do. I'm Catholic, so I don''t go reading the opinions of John MacArthur or the Dalia Lama. Moslems will follow those who think like they do, Buddhists will do the same and so will atheists. That shouldn't surprise us.

It's a by product of the way we're made - Matthew 6:24 NIV “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other." We will serve Christ or something else, but not both.

There was a time when I was an atheist, although I had been a nominal "Christian" when I was younger. Part of the reason I drifted away was the theory of evolution, but I also didn't come from a religious family background. I had a somewhat diffcult family background as well - my father, in his own words the night he died and appeared in my room, stated "I've been an absolute mongrel to you!"

For what it's worth "someone" turned up briefly in a vision when I was about 18 and said "What you've been through already would have destroyed a lot of people". Since God didn't seem to be much help, I turned away from Him, and really only turned back after I'd made a mess of things. If my life had been a bed of roses, why would I need God? I'd become disillusioned with atheism - it led nowhere.

In the final analysis, I think "disillusionment" is the key term whenever someone converts to another set of beliefs.
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