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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Christians Stand Trial In Finland


The case of Finnish member of parliament Päivi Räsänen, who continues to face persecution for her religious beliefs, will set a key free-speech precedent...

In 2019, Räsänen’s church decided to sponsor a “pride” parade. She responded by posting some Bible verses on Twitter and asking how that decision aligned with Scripture. You might expect that to have led to some debate or perhaps even tension, possibly a meeting with church leaders. Instead, she faced criminal prosecution eerily reminiscent of the Soviet Union.

Government officials ransacked Räsänen’s private life, rummaged through 20 years of public statements, and interrogated her on her personal theology. In the process, they dug up a 2004 church pamphlet she had authored on marriage and sexuality, as well as comments she made on a 2019 radio show. Government prosecutors charged Räsänen with three counts of “agitation against a minority group” under the war-crimes statute of Finnish law. A Lutheran bishop, Juhana Pohjola, was charged alongside her for publishing the pamphlet.
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Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption to make. You're welcome to try to convince me otherwise though.
Why should I bother to address your assumptions. . . you don't sign my paycheck.
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Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

Not entirely. Claiming an extra 10,000 feet for an apartment is not subjective. Disregarding use covenants (unable to further develop a property because you've claimed it a conservation area) is not subjective. Lying about the number of floors a building has is not subjective.
The buyer has no one to blame but himself if he ignores, "Buyer beware."
Claiming a building is rented out a market rates when it is subject to rent control is not subjective.
There was also a problem that the subjective valuations soared on loan applications and tanked on tax relief applications from the self-same valuator.
It is in the court documents. But that requires reading...
Surely these injuries were taken to Court and rectified. . .

What were the damages awarded to the injured?

Crickets. . .
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"If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail," President Donald Trump said as he signed executive orders in the Oval Office on Monday.

Flags when damaged or worn are destroyed by fire. There is a huge difference between following code and someone dousing the flag in a fuel and burning it in some perceived protest.
Not really. You can’t outlaw people’s feelings, only their actions. If the act of burning a flag is illegal it should be illegal in all circumstances.

Protest is (supposed to be) protected speech, btw.
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Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

Because the case has not even gone to court yet (meaning that both parties to the case have not presented any evidence), and you're not omniscient. You may know some of the facts, but I feel pretty confident in saying that you don't know all of them.

True, but one does need to know all of the facts in order to make that determination.
Which you seem to be assuming regarding facts about me. . .
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Believers being bullied by other brothers and sisters in Christ.

I have to disagree with a lot of this. Firstly, the only bullying I’ve seen is from “progressive” churches, or from progressives in church.

Secondly, if we didn’t use scripture to base our beliefs and culture on, what would we use? Society has departed drastically from being sane and rational, and we should never consider changing who we are and what we believe to match them. We can change how we worship, but never why or what or who we worship. That is where the watering-down happens.
You may have misunderstood me. I have a tendency to jump between first and third persons or present the opposing view as though I am advocating it. Sorry if thats the case.

I agree with you. I agree that we have to stay true to scripture no matter how society changes. That is the destinguishing truth. And I agree that progressive ideas in the church like in society are causing divisions and all the problems that go with that.

Its almost designed to create division by allowing more than one way to see Gods truth for the church. You can't have two or more truths fighting within the same church. This is the opposite of unity of mind and spirit.

I was just pointing out how much society and the a growing number of churches have become good at watering down not just scripture but words and meanings generally. So good that many are fooled. That now more than ever we need to scrutinise and stay true.

Whereas I think in the early church Paul and the disciples and those who followed were very protective of the church community. They almost wanted to insulate the church from the world. Not let the world come in and corrupt the truth.
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Grand juries weighing criminal charges for Tish James, Adam Schiff: sources

A single instance that did not appear on any of the other hundreds of pages where she is listed as "daughter". Horse flies bite!
Yep. . . a "single instance" in 1983 and another "single instance" in 2000.

I guess horse flies do bite.
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Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

Keeping in mind that valuation of assets is subjective.
Not entirely. Claiming an extra 10,000 feet for an apartment is not subjective. Disregarding use covenants (unable to further develop a property because you've claimed it a conservation area) is not subjective. Lying about the number of floors a building has is not subjective. Claiming a building is rented out a market rates when it is subject to rent control is not subjective.

There was also a problem that the subjective valuations soared on loan applications and tanked on tax relief applications from the self-same valuator.
Can you prove he was wrong . . .in light of their value today?
It is in the court documents. But that requires reading...

Sour grapes. . .
Sure, sure.
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Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

And you know that for a fact, how?
Because the case has not even gone to court yet (meaning that both parties to the case have not presented any evidence), and you're not omniscient. You may know some of the facts, but I feel pretty confident in saying that you don't know all of them.
One doesn't have to be a Judge to know when a law is broken.
True, but one does need to know all of the facts in order to make that determination.
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Texas will require public school classrooms to display Ten Commandments under bill nearing passage

A hypothetical made by the Judge in the decision:

View attachment 369101

The separation of church and state is one of the things that let this little experiment of a democratically elected republic work. That along as with what the judge said about the majority not having special rights to trample over the minority. Those principles along with the principles of separation of powers those Puritans came to establish in the states are being stress tested right now. Hopefully, it still works out as intended.
The reasoning in the hypothetical is so clear and obvious that I think the Christian proponents of this 10 Commandments law are no longer interested the the First Amendment protections from state imposed religion at all.

Instead, they are fine with the state promoting their religion while they are confident they can get the state - every state - to deny the same to other religions through force of law, which they will come to dominate via an engineered tyranny by the minority type situation..
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DOJ issues subpoenas to NY AG Letitia James, including over Trump civil fraud case and NRA case: Sources

Federal prosecutors in Albany have issued subpoenas to New York Attorney General Letitia James inquiring about her office's civil fraud case against President Donald Trump and corruption case against the National Rifle Association, multiple sources told ABC News.

A spokesperson for James called the subpoenas a "weaponization of the justice system,"
Pot calling the kettle black. . .

What goes around comes around.
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Grand juries weighing criminal charges for Tish James, Adam Schiff: sources

Stating her father was her husband is now a minor error in paperwork? When horses fly. . .
A single instance that did not appear on any of the other hundreds of pages where she is listed as "daughter". Horse flies bite!
Why so eager to justify criminality?
What an inane accusation disguised as a badly framed "question"! :rolleyes:
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Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Guess who’s behind it

[Adam Schiff, Letitia James, and now Lisa Cook.]

What gets me, and should get you, is the flimsiness of these accusations despite how loudly they’ve been bruited about on the MAGA right as though they’re signals of profound moral turpitude on the part of the targets, and how they all originated in the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which is led by Trump acolyte and sycophant William J. Pulte, in private life a big homebuilder.

The important question, in the view of Adam Levitin of Georgetown Law, is who is driving these investigations and levying these accusations, and whether they reflect an “enemies list” Pulte has compiled on Donald Trump’s behalf. I asked the FHFA to respond to Levitin’s questions, but received no response.

...none of the public accusations from the FHFA specify what, if any, financial advantages were received by the targets.

And it’s unlikely that they’re the result of random audits of FHFA loans, as Levitin observed in relation to the Cook case.

“No one ever goes back and examines loan applications on performing loans for occupancy fraud; that would entail expenses for no benefit,” he wrote. “Instead, the only way anyone would have noticed a problem with Cook’s loan application is that Pulte, as head of FHFA, directed Fannie or Freddie to pull her application. That is unheard of.”

[In Schiff's case, we have an FHFA memo that says as much. The order came from one of the IGs Trump installed after firing most of them.]

The Fannie Mae memo says that the FHFA inspector general demanded “the loan file and any related investigative or quality control documentation, as well as all other loans associated with...Adam B. Schiff.”

The allegations against Schiff relate to his ownership of two homes, one in Burbank and the second in the Washington, D.C., area. But his dual ownership obviously was known to his mortgage lenders, and he has said that he took the homeowner’s property tax exemption only on the Burbank property.

[For James] In all but one of several documents, she stated that the niece would live in the house; according to her lawyer, on one form she said she’d be the occupant. But the bank could hardly have been misled, given the other documents. ... One form filed in 2001 regarding a Brooklyn brownstone bought for her family listed the property as having five units, but all the other pertinent forms stated correctly that it was four units. ... And in the 1983 purchase of house in Queens, New York, James’ father identified her as his spouse, not his daughter, on one form among others that identified her correctly.

Back in 2014, David H. Stevens, a former federal housing official then serving as CEO of the Mortgage Bankers Assn., told the Washington Post that the paper file for a standard mortgage had ballooned to 200-500 pages. “The likelihood of a minor defect is almost 100 percent,” he said. That reduces the significance of the errors Pulte claims to have found nearly to the vanishing point, especially given the paucity of evidence that Schiff, James or Cook got a financial benefit from any of them.

... the law is not concerned with insignificant trifles. In the Trump case, however, [the judge] declared that Trump and his fellow defendants saved tens of millions of dollars. “The frauds found here,” he wrote, “leap off the page and shock the conscience.”
Fraud is the intentional deception or misrepresentation to secure unfair or unlawful gain, often involving financial or personal benefit. It typically includes acts like lying, cheating, or concealing facts to mislead someone, resulting in harm or loss to the victim. Legally, fraud requires elements like a false statement, knowledge of its falsity, intent to deceive, and damage to the deceived party. Examples include identity theft, insurance fraud, or Ponzi schemes.
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Cracker Barrel loses almost $100 million.

Imagine being so fragile that a mediocre restaurant changing its dated logo is enough to send you into a tailspin. Not the ghastly, dated, underseasoned, boil-bag food… The logo.
Eh? Some people don’t want to see change because the past makes them nostalgic?

The times are a changin’ ;)
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Cracker Barrel loses almost $100 million.

I am just thankful that the original "old country store", Walmart, has never changed it's logo and never will. This woke nonsense needs to stop.
Wait, what? Isn’t Walmart responsible for shutting down so many ma and pop stores?

I’m getting off topic. Carry on.
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Believers being bullied by other brothers and sisters in Christ.

Yes, it is not the flesh but the will of the Father that matters. We need to place ourselves second. Whether sonner or later the flesh is only temporary anyways. People like to think it is all about us. Not so. It is about 'Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done'. Those loyal will find a place.
On earth as it is in heaven.
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Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

Keeping in mind valuation of assets is subjective.
Can you prove he was wrong . . .in light of their value today?

Sour grapes. . .

I don't need to prove anything. A court already did.
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Did Jesus go to hell during the time that he was in the grave?

Hell is the grave (there is NO burning place) Jesus died the 1st and 2nd death ... Jesus was both man and God ... You can't kill God ... it is why Jesus had to come to earth as a human .... He was able to be resurrected (as a man) because He was sinless .... he overcame the grave (death) ... just as He was both man and God on earth .... so He is in heaven and will remain that way. Those in Him will some day be resurrected to eternal life because He overcame death on our behalf. Those not in Him will suffer the 2nd death (death for eternity) non-existence.
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Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Trump's retribution guy at the Federal Housing Finance Agency

...and of course there's Trump who was found to "systematically inflate the value of his assets to deceive lenders and insurers" by a court of law.
Keeping in mind that valuation of assets is subjective.
Can you prove he was wrong . . .in light of their value today?

Sour grapes. . .
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