JimR-OCDS said:

St John of the Cross wrote in "The Dark Night of the Soul" that discursive meditation is what beginners experience in the dark night of sense.
However, as the soul advances in prayer and moves into the dark night of the spirit, they receive the gift of "contemplation," which
means that the soul empties herself of anything not of God. St John of the Cross teaches in his writings that detachment from what
he calls, "appetites," which include erroneous thoughts, is part of growing spiritually.

Just because those in Eastern religions do the similar, doesn't make it wrong. They also use rosary beads, and because they do, should we
stop praying the rosary?

Who we are focused on in prayer is what makes our meditation different.

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Well, those in Eastern religions don’t use rosary beads they use prayer beads.

prodromos said:

You claim the sun, moon and stars are in the fimament, which you claim is solid, and yet the sun and moon can move in it.

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Of course the sun & the moon move in the firmament & all the stars, if you say other wise, then I'm sorry to say, that the truth is not in you.

Studyman said:

I addressed the very foundation of your adopted religious philosophy, your aversion to those like the Jesus "of the Bible" completely commit themselves to God and their bodies as instruments of righteousness unto God.

So I have absolutely answered your judgment of me and your aversion for "Legalism", a word never spoken in the Bible accept to describe Jesus and His excessive adherence to His Father and His Father's Laws

Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone Loved and Respected God and His instruction in Righteousness like Jesus did, instead of "living by" the doctrines, judgments and philosophies of the religions of the world God placed us in? Nevertheless, Jesus said few would enter this lifestyle. Can we not choose to be of the few?

Certainly food for thought, for those "seeking Glory, Honor and Immortality".

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So you are not going to address my post 97. Got it.

SabbathBlessings said:

I am not familiar with the verse that God's Truth turns into untruth...

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Matthew 4:6
and he said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written: ‘He will give His angels orders concerning You’; and ‘On their hands they will lift You up, So that You do not strike Your foot against a stone.’”

Carl Emerson said:

Dan - you do well to read the Law which remains a tool God uses when convicting readers of sin.

However those in Christ are no longer subject to the Curse of the Law or judged by it. His presence within brings superior conviction on all matters in life including matters with no mention in the Law. This is to assist progressive sanctification as we are being drawn by the Spirit to become more Christ-like in this life.

The Old Covenant and the Law has been replaced by the New Covenant and Christ as predicted by the Prophets.

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And since you sY THAT the Old Covenant has been replaced by the NEW COVENANT , how is any saved by IT. ??

# 1 SAVED by water baptism. ?

#2 SAVED being BORN AGAIN. ?

# 3. Or by being BORN OF WATER and the SPIRIT. ?

# 4 Saved by Grace ??

# 5. OR being BAPTIZED FOR THE DEAD ??

What say you ??

dan p

essentialsaltes said:

Or the government loses hundreds of millions of corporate tax revenue to save tens of millions.

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What about all that talk about corporate greed? Now you’re saying it’s a good thing? Corporations need to make more so they can pay more taxes?

David Hine7 said:

It will from now onwards always comes back to this elegant Hubble Constant equation:-

Hubble Constant (Ho) fixed to light speed, C and calculated as 71 k/s/Mpc

Ho is now "fixed" to local light speed, C by this simple Ho equation worked in the old algebra style of Maxwell:-


2 x oneMpc x C, divided by Pi to the power of 21 = 70.9449 k/s/Mpc



In this equation, directly input the values below:-

oneMPC is 3260000 light years

C (local) is 299792.458 k/s

Pi is 3.142..........

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  Hubble Constant (Ho) Using Online Calculator (Screenshot) (2) - Copy.png
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To use your own terminology since you are too thick to explain how multiplying by Mpc in the numerator ends up in the denominator for Ho so let's go to the next issue.

David Hine7 said:

The other equation to prevent falsifying the Hubble Horizon light years distance as years only:-

Hubble Constant (Ho) Hubble Horizon Distance light years calculated from Ho of 70.9449 k/s/Mpc.



oneMpc X C, divided by Ho, and then divided by one billion = 13.7758 billion light Years



In this equation, directly input the values below:-

oneMpc is 3260000 light years

C (local) is 299792.458 k/s

Ho is 70.9449 k/s/Mpc

one billion is 1,000,000,000 used to give the answer in convenient units of
billions of light years.


Note:- This Hubble Horizon Distance equation prevents falsifying the terminology of
declaring light years as years only.

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Using your formula (Mpc x c) / (Ho x 10⁹) = (c/Ho) x (Mpc)/10⁹
If you had used the correct units to start with c/Ho is the radius of the universe expanding at speed c and you would not have to rely on the fudge factor Mpc/10⁹.
This is the Hubble radius which is the correct definition not Hubble horizon as we can observe beyond this.

If the universe was expanding at speed c the Hubble radius c/Ho and Hubble time 1/Ho would have the same magnitude but clearly not the same units.
Declaring the Hubble radius “prevents falsifying the terminology of declaring light years as years only.” is nonsensical.

Here is the some information on the universe.

David Hine7 said:

===========================================================================================

The "Hubble Tension Issue"

Note:- In the "Dynamic Aether Framework" of the Ho calculating equation in which Ho is "fixed" numerically to C,
the "Hubble Tension issue" is caused by the "DISTANT LOCAL VALUE" of C in the observed space regions being
directly affected by the presence of huge galaxies, black holes. or void areas, RELATIVE to the observer.

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  Hubble Constant (Ho) Hubble Horizon Distance Light Years Using Online Calculator (Screenshot) - Copy.png
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Back to the word salad again, the Hubble tension is the difference in measuring Hₒ for an object in the universe’s early history the CMB with that of galaxies formed in far more recent times.
Since the error bars do not overlap this is the source of the tension.

This subject is interesting. Have you considered 1:Cor6:9-11?

9 Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, 10 Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.
11 And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God

And Hebrews 10

26 For if we sin wilfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of a fire which shall consume the adversaries. 28 A man making void the law of Moses, dieth without any mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 How much more, do you think he deserveth worse punishments, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath esteemed the blood of the testament unclean, by which he was sanctified, and hath offered an affront to the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said: Vengeance belongeth to me, and I will repay. And again: The Lord shall judge his people.



Do you think that those who are in Christ should be able to stop doing the sins mentioned in 1 Cor 6?
It would seem to me that the sins mentioned in 1Cor6 would be sins unto death as Paul says those that do them will not possess the kingdom of God. Is that what you see?

Yes God can forgive these sins and we can be washed and sanctified, but the scriptures say that they are past tense, not current activity which we deem too hard to give up.

Are there some sins that are worse than others? If not, why has Paul listed these, and why has John mentioned sin unto death?

Fantine said:

Be prepared to help her with her medical bills if she is left up the creek without a paddle. And remember which party caused the carastrophe.

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Yes... The Democrats have closed down the gov by refusing to vote for the CR.
It is just that simple. All else is subterfudge.

prodromos said:

You've never seen clouds?

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This is not what God meant.

BPPLEE said:

Or you can look at it this way "Shoppers save $8 billion thanks to Trump "

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Or the government loses hundreds of millions of corporate tax revenue to save tens of millions.

Delvianna said:

What is the context of Philippians 2?

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It's ok, but I'm noticing that we have different understandings about much of what we're discussing. So let's press on! There are quite a few things that God has to do in us, and causing us to desire "to do His good pleasure" does have to do with good works and living Godly, which I believe pleases Him the most, like a good daughter or son pleasing their parents.

Delvianna said:

This is why you have letters to Churches in Revelation, people who were following Christ but fell away..

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Not to oppose you personally, but I don't see where it says any fell away, and the Lord Jesus said they were all still in Him, and warns them of wrongs they were doing; and I have no doubt they all chose to do what He admonished, considering He causes them to please the Father (Phl 2:13). If anyone ceases permanently to love God, it manifests
the absence of rebirth.

Delvianna said:

2 Peter 2:11-13

Look at all those "if" statements. That's not a 100% sure salvation stance, that is IF we do this, THEN this happens. You can't disown something you never had in the first place. So, IF we disown Jesus, he will disown us. Loss of salvation.

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Not sure you have the correct passages. I do not see any "if's in 2 Peter 2:11-13, are you in the right place?

ThatRobGuy said:

In a purely objective sense... No

No...

But people don't get elected based on whether or not they're someone people would want their kids to emulate. They're elected in a 2-person competition where people are often times forced to go with "lesser of two evils" based on their current priority list.

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It's not argument with which I agree. But...

...maybe you can explain why so many excuse his total lack of moral character, his mysogeny, his almost pathological lying, his denial of basic human rights, his lack of care for others...the list goes on and on. He represents your country for heaven's sake and you really would struggle to find someone worse to do it.

Why is there any support for the man?

Aldebaran said:

So am I, by addressing the video about Trump supposedly being a king. That's what the topic is about.

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The video is one that Trump posted which was done by AI and shows Trump with a crown on his head, flying a jet plane and dumping poop on protesters.

Trump is the one who posted it.

ThatRobGuy said:

Trump's Coin Toss: What's Going to Happen When the U.S. Scraps Pennies?

Start brushing up on your math rounding skills now.

money.com

Seems like getting rid of the penny hasn't caused any long term irreparable harm to any of the other countries who've done it.

Hey, north of the border friends...you guys still surviving up there without your pennies? Has it turned into any sort of Thunderdome/rioting situation when someone's change is rounded down from $1.42 down to $1.40?

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What percentage of people still pay in cash?

So what of John 17:21 - unity among believers is not likely to be seen by the world today...

Hentenza said:

You answer my post 97 first since you seem to have ignored it.

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I addressed the very foundation of your adopted religious philosophy, your aversion to those like the Jesus "of the Bible" completely commit themselves to God and their bodies as instruments of righteousness unto God.

So I have absolutely answered your judgment of me and your aversion for "Legalism", a word never spoken in the Bible accept to describe Jesus and His excessive adherence to His Father and His Father's Laws

Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone Loved and Respected God and His instruction in Righteousness like Jesus did, instead of "living by" the doctrines, judgments and philosophies of the religions of the world God placed us in? Nevertheless, Jesus said few would enter this lifestyle. Can we not choose to be of the few?

Certainly food for thought, for those "seeking Glory, Honor and Immortality".

essentialsaltes said:

Just playing with numbers...

NRF Forecasts 2025 Retail Sales to Hit $5.42 Trillion, Despite Economic Uncertainty​

If all retail sales were subject to the same rate of shrinkage, that would be some $8 billion.

From the previous link, "The government is expected to save $56 million by not minting pennies, according to the Treasury Department."

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Or you can look at it this way "Shoppers save $8 billion thanks to Trump "

Desk trauma said:

Said every generation of Christians from 31CE or so onwards. However they were all clearly mistaken, unlike the current crop.

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You can say "It's closer than ever " and you'll always be right

concretecamper said:

I am asking why it has to be explicit in Scripture in order to be a Divinely revealed truth. If you can explain that to me, please do.

If you can't, my answer is "who cares if it's not explicit in Scripture. It is still a Divinely revealed truth."

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Because it leads people to believe when it is not TRUE !!

dan p

JSRG said:

That means that Kwik Trip would be losing 0.15% of its total revenue.

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Just playing with numbers...

NRF Forecasts 2025 Retail Sales to Hit $5.42 Trillion, Despite Economic Uncertainty​

If all retail sales were subject to the same rate of shrinkage, that would be some $8 billion.

From the previous link, "The government is expected to save $56 million by not minting pennies, according to the Treasury Department."

Fervent said:

Are you intentionally conflating the meaning of "reason" or do you truly not understand that your usage and @o_mlly usage are not the same?

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I'll use reason to determine my position on moral matters. It gives me the reason why I hold to it. One is the process. The other is the result it gives.

Did I really have to spell that out?

eleos1954 said:

One needs to take the Bible as a whole .... the entire bible is the "context"

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And I see this in. the bible. :

# 1 God is speaking to UNBELIEVERS

# 2 God is speaking to Israel

# 3 And God is speaking to the BODY of CHRIST. !!

# 4 Then present your #. 1 your. Argument # 2 Your PREMISE and # 3 your CONCLUSION. !!

And the word PURAGORY. , POPE , and there are many other words NOT in the Greek text !!

dan p

Studyman said:

Since you are preaching to me and have judged me as leaning towards "Legalism", lets look and what a Legalist actually is.

le·gal·ism
[ˈliːɡəlɪz(ə)m]
noun
legalism (noun)
legalisms (plural noun)

1. excessive adherence to law or formula:
   "this petty legalism encouraged more to flee"

What does the Bible teach about the Jesus "of the Bible"?

Phil. 2: 5 "Let this mind be in you", which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

So whose Law was Jesus so excessively adherent to, even unto death? The Pharisees Law? Or God's Law?

What does Paul teach?

1 Cor. 7: Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Whose Words did Jesus say men should "live by"? Didn't HE say men shall live by "Every Word" of God?

Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, "even as your Father which is in heaven" is perfect.

Didn't Jesus forgive a sinner, and then tell him, "Now Go and Transgress God's Commandments no more"?

And the Prophet's Spirit of Christ's inspired words;

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear "the conclusion of the whole matter": Fear God, and "keep his commandments": for "this is the whole duty of man". 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

So then, a man striving to be Perfect, as Jesus was perfect, who was perfect, even as His Father in heaven is perfect, seems like a pretty "excessive adherence to law or "Way of the Lord"/ formula.

Why then do you judge such a commitment of Faith and self denial in worship and Faith of who Jesus Called, "The One True God" as a wicked or undesirable thing?

Am I not told to have the same mind that was in Jesus?

What if it's this world's religious system, who profess to know God just as the "other voice" in the garden in the beginning, that is against us, and not God's Laws at all?

What if the Bible is true, and Isaac was blessed "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws?"

Strict adherence to God's Laws worked for Abraham, Noah, Caleb, Daniel, Shadrack, Zacharias, Simeon, Paul and All the examples of Faithful men in the Holy Scriptures. Why is "Yielding oneself a servant to obey God" so preached against by this world's mainstream religions?

Doesn't Jesus warn about these very things? Shall we not believe in the Jesus "of the Bible", even if "Many" who call Him Lord, Lord do not?

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You answer my post 97 first since you seem to have ignored it. It also contains the answer as to why I used the term legalistic.

SabbathBlessings said:

Great question — Colossians 2:16 is often cited in discussions about whether Christians are still required to keep the Sabbath commandment (the Fourth Commandment). Let's look at the verse carefully, in its full context, and then assess whether it refers to the weekly Sabbath from the Ten Commandments or ceremonial sabbaths in the Law of Moses.

---

Colossians 2:16–17 (NKJV)​

---

Key Questions:​

1. What kind of “sabbaths” is Paul talking about?​

Let’s break the phrase down:




This phrase appears in many places in the Old Testament, often in this same order, and always refers to ceremonial observances:

• 1 Chronicles 23:31
• 2 Chronicles 2:4
• 2 Chronicles 31:3
• Nehemiah 10:33
• Ezekiel 45:17
• Hosea 2:11

These texts link festivals, new moons, and sabbaths as ceremonial observances — part of the Mosaic (Levitical) system, not the weekly seventh-day Sabbath of the Ten Commandments.


That’s why Paul says in Col. 2:17:




In other words, these ceremonial laws pointed forward to Christ and found their fulfillment in Him.

---

2. Is the weekly Sabbath also a shadow?​

There’s a strong distinction between:

Type of Law	Description	Shadow of Christ?	Abolished in Christ?
Moral Law (10 Commandments)	Eternal moral principles (Ex. 20)	❌ No	❌ No
Ceremonial Law	Feasts, sacrifices, rituals, sabbaths tied to festivals (Lev. 23)	✅ Yes	✅ Yes

• The weekly Sabbathwas:
  • Given at Creation (Genesis 2:2–3)
  • Reinforced in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:8–11)
  • Not instituted as a shadow, but as a memorial of creation
• The ceremonial sabbaths(e.g., Day of Atonement, Feast of Trumpets) are:
  • Called sabbaths too (see Leviticus 23)
  • Fall on various days, not necessarily the seventh day
  • Shadows pointing to Jesus' work

Therefore, when Paul talks about “sabbaths which are a shadow”, he refers to these ceremonial sabbaths, not the weekly Sabbath of the Fourth Commandment.

---

3. Did Jesus or the Apostles abolish the weekly Sabbath?​

• Jesus kept the Sabbath (Luke 4:16)
• The disciples kept the Sabbath after Jesus' death (Acts 13:42, 16:13, 17:2, 18:4)
• Hebrews 4:9 says:

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✅ Conclusion:​

Colossians 2:16 does not cancel the weekly Sabbath commandment.
It refers to ceremonial sabbaths, along with food and drink offerings, and religious festivals that were shadows pointing to Christ.


The Fourth Commandment Sabbath is not a shadow, but a memorial of creation and a sign of God’s sanctifying work (Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12).

2. But Which Commandment Does God Emphasize Most in the Bible?​

✅ The Fourth Commandment (Sabbath) is the only one God:​

• Calls "My holy day" (Isaiah 58:13)
• Links to Creation (Genesis 2:1–3; Exodus 20:11)
• Uses to test Israel's obedience before Sinai (Exodus 16)
• Commands to remember as a sign between Him and His people (Ezekiel 20:12, 20)
• Institutes as a covenantal sign (Exodus 31:13–17)

The Fourth Commandment is the most directly spoken about by God throughout the Bible. It is personally claimed by Him, reaffirmed repeatedly, and tied to His identity as both Creator and Sanctifier.

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Ask the right question and AI can say almost anything you want it to.

Did Jesus fulfill the law in us and for us?

1. Jesus fulfilled the law perfectly — for us​

Jesus said plainly:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.” — Matthew 5:17

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To fulfill means to bring to completion, to fill up its full meaning. Jesus did what no one else could — He perfectly obeyed God’s law without sin (1 Peter 2:22, Hebrews 4:15).
Paul wrote:

“Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” — Romans 10:4

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This means that Christ is both the goal and the completion of the law’s demands. He fulfilled it for us, and His perfect obedience is credited to those who believe (2 Corinthians 5:21, Romans 5:19).


So in the sense of righteousness before God, Jesus fulfilled the law for us.
We are justified — declared righteous — not because we kept the law, but because He did.

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2. He also fulfills the law in us​

Through the Holy Spirit, Christ’s life begins to be expressed in us.
Paul explains:

“That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.” — Romans 8:4

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Notice: not “by us,” but in us.
When we walk in the Spirit, we begin to live in harmony with God’s moral will — not to earn salvation, but because we’ve already received it. The Spirit produces in us what the law demanded but could never empower.

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3. We are not under the law as a means of salvation​

Paul could not be clearer:

“For by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.” — Galatians 2:16
“If righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.” — Galatians 2:21

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The law shows us our sin (Romans 3:20) and drives us to Christ, but it cannot save us.
Salvation is entirely by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9).

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4. The believer’s obedience now flows from love, not legal obligation​

Jesus said,

“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” — John 14:15

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That love is the fruit of salvation, not its cause.
We obey because we are saved — not to be saved.
As Paul says:

“Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.” — Romans 3:31

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Faith doesn’t abolish God’s moral order — it puts it in its proper place, under grace, with Christ as both its fulfillment and its power.

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✅ Summary:

• Jesus fulfilled the law for us — securing our righteousness.
• The Spirit fulfills it in us — producing holy living.
• We are not obligated to keep the law for salvation, because salvation is by grace through faith.
• True believers still love and honor God’s moral will — not to earn life, but because they already have it in Christ.