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Clare73 · Sunday at 1:23 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Your words, not Christ's.

I didn't write Heb 4:8-10, Mt 19:28:

". . .if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.
There remains then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from is own work, just as God did from his." (Heb 4:8-10)

And that rest is from our own work to save, and in Jesus' work which saves.

Jesus is our full-time (Heb 4:4) Sabbath rest (Mt 19:28) from our own works to save and in his work which saves to the uttermost (Heb 7:25).

Hentenza · Sunday at 1:16 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Christ said:

Mat 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am [a]gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Many believe and teach Christ's rest some how relieves our moral obligation to obey the Sabbath commandment, but is this what Jesus is teaching?

Jesus said this and still kept the Sabbath going to church reading God's word Luke 4:16 as the apostles did following in His footsteps keeping every Sabbath in the same manner decades after the Cross Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 as the Sabbath is a holy convocation Lev 23:3 and we see that continuing on in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:22-23

So what rest is Christ referring to?

Psa 38:3 There is no soundness in my flesh because of thine anger; neither is there any rest in my bones because of my sin.4 For mine iniquities are gone over mine head: as an heavy burden they are too heavy for me.

The rest Jesus is giving us when we come to Him is rest from our sins. Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sins Heb 10:26-30

Sin is:
1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11-12 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. quoting and contrasting directly from the Ten Commandments breaking one we break them all
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Rom 14:23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

We also see this play out in the last days

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Compared to the antidote found in the next verse

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

If we understand Christ rest, it will help us understand Hebrews 4 much better as it is speaking of two rests, not one.

We are invited to enter into Christ rest, just like the Israelites, Heb 4:1 but many didn't enter due to disobedience (sin) even through the same gospel was preached Heb 4:6

Why the Holy Spirit is calling us "TODAY" to come our of our rebellion (sin) and enter His rest quoting directly from Psa 95

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”

Why there is another day spoken of, which is TODAY God is calling us from our sins and come unto Him and He will give us rest from the burdens of sin but we need to enter through faith Heb 4:2

What did the Israelites disobey during their trial of the wilderness that led them to not enter into Christ rest

Eze 22:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Why the next verse says there remains a Sabbath-rest for the people of God Heb 4:9 and the Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 because breaking God's law is sin 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12

The next verse clearly shows these two rests

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also (in addition) ceased from his works as God did from His.

God ceased from His works on the seventh day, Heb 4:4 Gen 2:1-3 just like God commanded us to Exo 20:8-11 as we were made in His image and likeness so to enter His rest one also ceases from work on the seventh day Sabbath. Exo 20:10

Heb 4:11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience

We don't want to follow the same mistakes of the Israelites who sinned and never entered their rest in Canaan, which is a type of heaven. The same applies to us to enter in Heaven Rev 22:14

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

In Christ rest no one is in rebellion or breaking God's law, why there is just peace
Isa 48:18
Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

Jesus is coming soon and we need to come out of our rebellion to Him and obey Him and His commandments, His version, God’s own personal Testimony Exo 31:18 written personally by God, His law and will Psa 40:8, It’s why we see the ark of the covenant, which holds God’s personal Testimony, the Ten Commandments written and spoken by the God of the Universe revealed at the last Trumpet before Jesus comes in all His Glory Rev 11:19 as it is the standard of what God will judge all man 2 Cor 5:10 James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 11:18-19 Rev 22:14-15 and removing anything God covers under His mercy seat which below sits God’s Testimony His Ten Commandments, laying it aside as to say its not for me, I do not believe that's going to work out so well as Jesus taught plainly Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

So lets be willing to forsake our sins Pro 28:13 and come to Jesus, He will give us rest.

So again simple question for you. Are all professed Christians that worship on Sunday living in sin?

Hentenza · Sunday at 1:14 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Or we can go by what the Scriptures actually say.

Heb 4::4 For He (God) has spoken in a certain place (Mt Sinai Exo20:1) of the seventh day in this way: Exo 20:8-11 “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; Exo 20:11

It does not say its Gods own full-time rest anywhere in this verse, nor does it say Jesus is our Sabbath rest, Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath the Creator, not that He is the Sabbath, the creation. We have been warned not to add to God's holy word Pro 30:5-6 as it no longer becomes His word, but ours, which can't save or sanctify.

Just like it doesn't say today is every day, but calling us out of rebellion TODAY, not to harden our hearts today if we hear His voice

Heb 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, (psa95)“Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

Today means daily- what the Holy Spirit is calling on us daily, if we hear His voice not to rebel against Him and sin, which is breaking God's laws- His version, not ours.

Heb 3: 13 but [b]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Iconically, what is being taught here is what this exact warning is about. Eze 20:13 Heb4:11

I know this can't be reasoned with as we are told 2 Tim 4:3-4, so it will be sorted out at His soon return.

That’s your incorrect interpretation not what the scriptures actually teach. Tell me, do all professed Christians that worship on Sunday living in sin?

Chrystal-J · Sunday at 1:13 PM

How pathetic. And they used to be a renowned university.

Chrystal-J · Sunday at 1:11 PM

Learning always said:
Oh dear, there are such priests in your diocese??

Yes. But, the good news is that my current priest is a decent guy.

Chrystal-J · Sunday at 1:10 PM

Wolseley said:
Oh, come on, Charlie! Really?

I don't agree with you on three-quarters of what you post here, but even I would have thought you'd be above the "boo-hoo, poor me, I'm going to pout" elementary school-level mindset employed by the Woke Left these days....good Lord.

I read, hear, and see things every day that offend me, and offend me deeply---even disgust and repel me, coming from the progressive liberal side of the aisle, but I don't pout about it and expect the world to change its opinions because I'm offended. That's a load of baloney.

He's offended that the Truth is being spoken at a Christian site.

ralliann · Sunday at 1:09 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Yes, there was never a law that one could be saved just by circumcision in the law of Moses, eliminating the need for Jesus. It was never the point of circumcision. As addressed in Acts 15 and several places in Scripture.

I find it odd Acts 15:21 was left out of the OP. How the gentiles would learn the rest of God's word. Acts 13:42, 44, Acts18:4

A covenant not made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob....Saved by grace, through faith

Deut 5:1 ¶ And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. {keep … : Heb. keep to do them }
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

BCP1928 · Sunday at 1:07 PM

zippy2006 said:
Thanks for proving my point. It's very similar to saying, "Kirk was Hitler, and that's why he had to die." Perhaps he would have to die if he were Hitler, but the claim that Kirk was Hitler is just a lie.

Kirk was connected to Seven Mountains. I don't know anybody further right than that.

GoldenKingGaze · Sunday at 1:04 PM

Fervent said:
This is all just speculation on your part. Do you think God was somehow taken off guard when the fall happened? If so, why was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world?

You can check the meaning of the name Eden. Genesis also mentions cursed land. Curses are powered by evil spirits. Childbirth was then to become painful. We have to work according to the same Genesis passage. There is disease, sourced by the work of Satan. Also war (not mentioned in Genesis), drought. Paul mentions war waged within our members, loins, eyes, stomach... appetites swelling beyond the human spirit. The need to be born again is here, and unlike Adam, we are not Spirit filled at conception. John the Baptist an exception.

John the apostle says God loves all sinners. Their temptation and the accusations against them, well God doesn't want them to fall. God does not wish the death of a sinner.

durangodawood · Sunday at 1:03 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
No.

Absolute morality - (Ethics) - Vocab, Definition, Explanations | Fiveable

Absolute morality refers to the ethical belief that certain actions are intrinsically right or wrong, regardless of the context or cultural norms. This concept asserts that there are universal moral principles that apply to all individuals, regardless of their beliefs or circumstances...

fiveable.me

Ah ok.

As long as we're talking about ethics, its considered "right" to present writing thats not your own as such.

Perhaps this is one of those non-absolute morals?

Larniavc · Sunday at 1:02 PM

Amo2 said:
The verse under examination does not men lion force at all, you are presuming it upon the verse.

Sure. Tell yourself that a raped woman will voluntarily give themselves over to death by stoning if you like.

GoldenBoy89 · Sunday at 1:02 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
He's the guy who was arguably the most cited cardiologist in modern history

Who is the second most cited cardiologist?

ThatRobGuy said:
(and former chief of internal medicine at Baylor), who had his career ruined because he went on Rogan and questioned aspects of the covid vaccines (particularly, their effects on the heart)

You mean he ruined his career by promoting crank medicine on the Joe Rogan non-medical podcast. He didn’t just question aspects of vaccines. He promoted false and ineffectual treatments along with his own supplements to “fix” these supposed vaccine injuries.

Wolseley · Sunday at 1:02 PM

Harvard University used to be the envy of the world---now, it's nothing more than a sick, pathetic joke.

How the mighty have fallen.

I'm sure that Harvard's founders are spinning in their graves like they're on some sort of nuclear-powered rotisserie.....and meanwhile, the Chinese and the jihadists are laughing at us with hysterical mirth. Good Lord.

Harvard hires drag queen ‘LaWhore Vagistan’ as visiting professor in gender and sexuality studies

Tufts Professor Kareem Khubchandani will teach courses on queer ethnography and drag politics at Harvard as the 2025-2026 F.O. Matthiessen visiting professor.

www.foxnews.com

"BREAKING: Pete Hegseth BLASTS Harvard for Hiring Drag Professor “LaWhore Vagistan” — “This Isn’t Education, It’s a Circus!” - News Social

BREΑKING: Pete Hegseth BLΑSTS Harvard for Hiriпg Drag Professor “LaWhore Vagistaп” — “This Isп’t Edυcatioп, It’s a Circυs!”

news.clubofsocial.com

When it comes to ‘LaWhore Vagistan’ at Harvard, I’m not even outraged — it’s hilarious

Harvard hiring a professor who goes by the drag queen name LaWhore Vagistan to teach a course on Rupaul shows the absurdity of academia.

nypost.com

Larniavc · Sunday at 1:01 PM

Amo2 said:
What kind of torturous existence would that represent, being prevented continuously throughout eternity from doing that which you really wish to do?

I think you are missing the point. I would (hypothetically) instil within a he potential rapist zero desire to rape.

Boom. Problem solved. No one needs to suffer.

Brightfame52 · Sunday at 12:58 PM

Even the ability to come to Christ in faith is a gift based upon the cross of Calvary. At the cross, Christ purchased for His people the Grace to believe in His name Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake

Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.3

Amo2 · Sunday at 12:58 PM

Larniavc said:
Why not?

Because you are not God, and could not prevent anything happening apart from that right around you. As suggested in the full context of that which I wrote. If you would care to consider things presented to you in their full context.

GoldenKingGaze · Sunday at 12:55 PM

Fervent said:
This is all just speculation on your part. Do you think God was somehow taken off guard when the fall happened? If so, why was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world?

Personally I think God is the Father of Eternity Isaiah 9:6. And like King David comparing God with the breakers of the sea, and not yet knowing about the storms on Jupiter... there is more to God than can be imagined in a day long session. Before any creation, or perhaps still alone in a root and primordial Heaven, they knew and discussed by thoughts, all options of angelic names, designs, powers and numbers... Not causing but knowing there would be a mutiny, they chose only one leader of it and aimed to minimise the damage and prepared to enter into creation as Christ and suffer with us and in our place and die and ransom us, and become victorious. God always knew of sons of God falling.

It may have been that King David, actually saw and heard Heaven to describe God.

Satan was once a holy angel, and was free of temptation except from his own thoughts, devices. The angels had a choice in different ways to Adam and Eve and us today.

Amo2 · Sunday at 12:55 PM

Larniavc said:
The Bible clearly states the circumstances for which a rape victim is to be killed due to being raped.

No it does not.

Deu 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

The verse under examination does not men lion force at all, you are presuming it upon the verse. The following verse which does actually address forced sex, rape, does not call for the death penalty or any penalty upon the raped. Only the death of the rapist. The assumption of the above quoted verse is that the women was not raped, as she did not cry out for help. Therefore being considered guilty of fornication, not of being raped. The issues of course would be more thoroughly examined considering the particulars of the case, before a decision would be made. Just as the issues would have to be more closely examined if or when a woman accused a man of rape, which apparently no one witnessed, before just killing the accused rapist, as described in the following verse immediately after those quoted above.

Deu 22:25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

GoldenBoy89 · Sunday at 12:51 PM

Tuur said:
So...was Lincoln wrong to occupy the South? What about Hoover and the Bonus Army? Eisenhower and Little Rock? Kennedy and Alabama? Johnson and Selma, Detroit and other cities? George H.W. Bush and LA? Were the goings on in these various places "pretended, too?" Or are we even allowed to ask that here?

None of these are comparable to what’s (not) happening in Portland. This is just another pointless escalation from an administration that thrives on chaos.

Clare73 · Sunday at 12:49 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Or we can go by what the Scriptures actually say.

Heb 4::4 For He (God) has spoken in a certain place (Mt Sinai Exo20:1) of the seventh day in this way: Exo 20:8-11 “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; Exo 20:11

Yes, in Christ our Sabbath we rest (Mt 19:28) full-time (Heb 4:4) from all our works to save,
and in his work which saves to the uttermost (Heb 7:25).

Oompa Loompa · Sunday at 12:45 PM

durangodawood said:
Did you write that?

No.

Absolute morality - (Ethics) - Vocab, Definition, Explanations | Fiveable

Absolute morality refers to the ethical belief that certain actions are intrinsically right or wrong, regardless of the context or cultural norms. This concept asserts that there are universal moral principles that apply to all individuals, regardless of their beliefs or circumstances...

fiveable.me

Amo2 · Sunday at 12:45 PM

Larniavc said:
How much choice is there in Heaven?

Enough for the highest angel in heaven to rebel against God through false accusations against His character, and take a third of the angels with him.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born..................................................
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

BCP1928 · Sunday at 12:43 PM

RileyG said:
Awful, but not surprising

The only problem is how to blame "The Left" for it.

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