Aristarkos said:

Are you?

Hence no longer a gentile or stranger or of an other nation but has become Israelite.

If you go crooked in the O.T. you will misinterpreted the N.T.

Aristarkos

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And the bible seems to. talk about 3 classes of people

# 1 Israel who will be BORN AGAIN. as seen in Eze chapters 36. , 37 and 38

# 2 The Body of Christ who were CHOSN before the OVER THROW. of. the WORLD , Ephor 1:4

#. And THE UNBELIEVERS

dan p

When they make Maxwell Van Down By The River i'm selling my house.

The Liturgist said:

Indeed - the idea that doctrine is somehow incompatible with the divine inspiration of Scripture is a Pietist idea which was alien to John Calvin and entirely alien to the early church. Indeed the 6th century Spanish theologian St. Isidore correctly declared “Scripture is not in the reading but in the interpretation.”

The reality is that certain doctrines, while scriptural, are communicated via tradition, for example, the doctrine of the Incarnation of Christ our True God and the Most Holy and Uncreated Life Giving Trinity are not explicitly stated in Scripture

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Does not Jn 1:1, 14 explicitly state the Incarnation?

The Liturgist said:

- they are rather implicitly defined and are an emergent consequence of a reading of John ch. 1 together with Matthew 28:19 and several other texts, but the problem is some people aren’t willing to go through this exhaustive process (which really, to do it from scratch, requires a systematic theologian like Karl Barth, whose “neo-Orthodoxy” I regard as superfluous since the eight volumes of his Kirchliche Dogmatische merely restated what one could have already read with a simple work on dogmatic theology from the Patristic era such as the Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith from the Fount of Wisdom of St. John of Damascus.

Since most people do not study scripture with the intensity of St. Gregory Palamas or Thomas Aquinas or Karl Barth, nor should they, for that is a specialized vocation, those who reject the idea of tradition frequently put themselves at risk for falling into various theological errors. It is troubling to consider that most Arians throughout history did not see the need to modify the Gospel According to John in order to dial down the intensity of John 1:1, which is a viable anti-Arian proof text, but someone who has been deceived by Arianism will still interpret it in an Arian dimension.

Now to be clear, I am not accusing Christians who do not appreciate the value of tradition of being crypto-Arians; god forbid that I should do that. Rather I am suggesting that Christians benefit from tradition even if they do not personally appreciate the value of the preservation of doctrines it conveys. It is for this reason that the early Protestants such as Maritn Luther, Thomas Cranmer, John Wesley and even John Calvin embraced the idea of tradition; Sola Scriptura in its original form was never intended to be a rejection of tradition as my Lutheran friends such as @MarkRohfrietsch @ViaCrucis and @Ain't Zwinglian will so eloquently express.

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So for anyone reading on this thread, we are saved by what Jesus Christ did for us, and we seek that same for others, to be saved from the same death that comes on us unless we believe in the life that is in the Son of God our Lord Jesus Christ, we also carry that life within us so we being life through those words of life and deeds of life that Jesus Christ did, to others, not death to them by our words or ways, which brings death to ourselves also, but to bring good to others in every way shows who is with us, and they also seek the good if it is what seems good to them.

Studyman said:

The Jesus "of the Bible" once said;

Matt. 10: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy "both soul and body" in hell.

For me, based on all other scriptures pertaining to death, since god created both body and soul, HE alone has the power to "destroy or kill" both body and soul. We know there is a state at the end of our fleshy existence on this earth called "death". According to the Spirit of God, a person who is dead, knows nothing.

Ecc. 9: 4 For to him that is joined to all the living "there is hope": for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living "know that they shall die": but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, "is now perished"; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Ps. 146: 2 While "I live" will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. 3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day "his thoughts perish".

Is. 38: 18 For the grave "cannot praise thee", death "can not celebrate thee": they that go down into the pit "cannot hope for thy truth". 19 "The living, the living", he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

Ps. 115: 17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

It is written in Scriptures that there will be a resurrection of the dead, as everyone will stand before the judgment seat of Christ, to be judged by their works that they did, while they were alive. For this to happen, their essence, spirit or "soul" must be preserved by God for Him to be able to raise them and judge them.

Ecc. 3: 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

I think, based on scriptures, that a man dies and the next thing he sees in the judgment Paul says all men are raised into. Based on Jesus' story of the "Rich Man" after his resurrection, mankind has no concept of time in death. Which makes perfect sense given the Holy Scriptures teach a dead man knows nothing, not even that he is dead and aligns perfectly with Scriptures that tells us this in God's Inspired Words.

So it perfectly reasonable for Jesus to teach that those who are "dead" are merely asleep, and will remain in this state until the Christ Comes back and raises them.

Some raised unto destruction, some raised unto Life. The destruction that would fall on those Jesus mentioned, had already received their rewards in their life as a human. This destruction or as it is called, "Death" is to be "Death Everlasting", that is, a death from which there is no return.

John 5: 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection "of life"; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection "of damnation."

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Thank you for sharing, StudyMan.
I can see that you really study.
I am happy to hear yo say "death from which there is no return", because that is exactly what Jesus was referring to when he said "destroy both body and soul in Gehenna" - the Greek word many translations has inappropriately mistranslated "hell". So that now "hell" is cast into "hell" Revelation 20:14. How confusing.

I also like that you recognize that those who are unrighteous are resurrected to judgment.
Some mistakenly think that God is going to raise up people, only to tell them "be gone for what you have done" or something to that effect, and then cast them into a fiery lake that burns forever, but I can't blame them for believing such misleading ideas, since I remember being taught this from the time I could walk, talk, and understand what a person was saying.

I learned from the Bible though, sometime in my mid twenties, that this judgment is not like going before a judge, who bangs his hammer on the table and says in a loud firm voice, "guilty". Then the officers standing next to the person, grabs both arms and carry them off to their fate.
Rather, this judgment is a lengthy period... the Bible says 1,000 years, in which the risen unrighteous have the opportunity to learn the Christ, and be judged based on their deeds.
This thread takes a look at the scriptures which sheds light on that.
Oops. I just realized I forgot to put the link in the post to @walter45. Sorry about that, buddy.

Many people do not understand that the soul is the person, being, or life of that being, and so, when Jesus said love God with your whole soul, they miss the point, because they think man has some living being inside of him, that never dies.
However, this is what the churches have been teaching for centuries... contrary to what the scriptures teach. As the scriptures show, the soul does die. Ezekiel 18:4
It is not put in hell where it's tormented in flames, and then taken out to be cast into another hell with even more intense flames... which never die.

So much confusion is being taught to the masses of people.
Thanks again for sharing these scriptures, and your thoughts along with them.

NewLifeInChristJesus said:

There is a lot here, lol. Where did you get the idea that He expects us to be keeping His commandments by not keeping them? That seems to be a doctrine everyone would oject to.

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If we keep the commandment of Christ, to love as He loved, it would not be very faithful of anyone to think we can do less than our Lord Jesus Christ did for us to lay HIs life down for all, and would maybe even be denial of Him doing that, which He did by dying and rising again, which is the faith that saves us from faithlessness.


John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

Xeno.of.athens said:

Nope. Catholics rightly believe and teach that "all scripture is inspired by God and useful ..." without accepting "sola scriptura".

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The Greek is "God-breathed, (theopuestos).

NewLifeInChristJesus said:

The same is true for the "not everyone..." Scripture. It's instruction to us more than a warning to them. So too with the tares. We can see that they are mixed in among Christians and they are different, but we are not to uproot them because it might do damage to the roots of the wheat. God will sort them out in the end. But I agree with you on the concept that we must do whatever we can to help the lost find their way to Christ. So I guess these verses we are discussing could be tools we use to jar them out of their comfort zone. But for the most part, flooding people with what the Bible says about the condemnation that they face for their sins does not usually produce much fruit. At least that's my experience. I have had better results comming alongside God as He draws them to Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins. I have only had one person ever tell me in person that they did not need Jesus' forgiveness because they have not done anything wrong.

And I noticed that you didn't want to address the meaning of "practicing sin".

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Regarding those who God draws and being alongside them...


John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

rjs330 said:

Says you.

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And others.

Overall, we rate The Religion of Peace as Questionable for having an extreme right-wing bias, promotion of conspiracy/propaganda, lack of transparency, and anti-Islam tendencies.

Reasoning: Propaganda, Conspiracy, Lack of Transparency, Anti-Islam
Bias Rating: EXTREME RIGHT
Factual Reporting: LOW
MBFC Credibility Rating: LOW CREDIBILITY


When I asked AI if religionofpeace.com is a credible source, I got the following answer:

AI Overview

The website TheReligionofPeace.com lacks credibility due to its strong anti-Islamic bias, use of polemic and propaganda, and presentation of cherry-picked and misrepresented information. It is widely criticized by Muslim groups, academic sources, and religious dialogue websites for its dishonesty and inaccuracies.

Anti-Islamic bias and agenda

The website is recognized as a counter-Islam and anti-Islamic propaganda site. Its name itself is a sarcastic and polemical take on the phrase often used to describe Islam.

The site acts as a clearinghouse for arguments that depict Islam as inherently violent, with the express purpose of belittling and dismissing the faith.



I've already shown you how the site was incorrect in its explanation of taqiyya and lying in Islam. Its annual "List of Killing in the Name of Islam" also contains false or misleading information. Many entries on the list either can't be verified, aren't related to religion, or never happened at all. Since I'm very familiar with events in the southern Philippines, I will show some examples of this from that country.

The religionofpeace site claims: "These are not incidents of ordinary crime involving perpetrators who happen to be Muslim. This is deadly violence that is reasonably determined to have been committed out of religious duty or sanction - as interpreted by the terrorist. Islam needs to be a factor, but not necessarily the only one."


2025.06.15 Philippines Zamboanga del Sur 2 killed Muslim terrorists are suspected in the shooting deaths of two Christians, a mother and daughter.

Local reporting doesn't identify the suspects.

2 die, 1 hurt in Zamboanga del Sur gun attack

A mother and her daughter were shot to death while on their way to church on Sunday in Barangay Kagawasan, Dimataling town, Zamboanga del Sur province.

The still unidentified gunmen fled toward the Tabina road, Arañas said.


2024.11.14 Philippines Mindanao 1 killed A female water employee is murdered by Bangsamoro Islamists.

Local reporting says the suspect is a hired killer. There's no mention of religion being a factor.

Female engineer in BARMM public works ministry shot dead

A suspected hired killer shot dead a female engineer in the Bangsamoro public works ministry while in a roadside eatery along a highway in Barangay Tamontaka in Datu Odin Sinsuat, Maguindanao del Norte on Thursday, November 14.

Engineer Darlene Pacete was with companions inside the establishment when a man approached, pulled out a pistol from his bag, shot her repeatedly and ran away.


024.05.26 Philippines Tantangan 4 killed Muslim terrorists are suspected of machine-gunning four farmers drinking alcohol.

Local reporting says suspects are unknown.

4 farmers killed in South Cotabato gun attack

Four farmers who were drinking in Barangay Dumadalig in Tantangan, South Cotabato were killed, while another was wounded in an attack by men armed with M16 assault rifles at almost Sunday midnight.

The gunmen hurriedly escaped, according to witnesses.


2023.11.23 Philippines Barangay Kudarangan 2 killed Moro Islamists assassinate a secular politician and guard.

Local reporting says this was related to a long-standing feud.

Village councilman, pal slain in North Cotabato gun attack

A village councilman and a watchman were killed when they were attacked in what police believed was triggered by a long-standing clan war in the town of Midsayap in North Cotabato at 1 a.m. Thursday.

Calinga said the families of Singh, a member of the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF), and that of a certain Sukarno Madidis, also an MNLF member, have been locked in a long-standing “rido” (family feud).


2023.10.10 Philippines Maguindanao 1 killed 1 injured Bangsamoro Islamists are suspected in the assassination of a foreign national.

The killer is unknown.

Saudi embassy in Manila is working to repatriate deceased citizen’s body

The embassy received with great sadness and sorrow the news of the killing of a Saudi citizen and the injury of his wife, at the hands of an unknown person who opened fire on them while the citizen was driving his vehicle along with his wife on a public road in Shariff Aguak in the southern Maguindanao del Sur province.


2022.03.17 Philippines Sitio Tenorio 1 killed A man is shot off his motorcycle by Moro Islamists.
2022.03.16 Philippines Datu Odin Sinsuat 2 killed Two civilians are gunned down by suspected Moro Islamists.

Another feud.

Maguindanao gun attacks claim 4 lives, hurt 3 others

Four persons were killed while three others were wounded in separate gun attacks in Maguindanao in what police believed were due to “rido” or family feud, a police official said Thursday.

Capt. Fayed Canda, the Maguindanao police spokesperson, said most of the shooting incidents--five in Datu Odin Sinsuat town and one in Datu Saudi Ampatuan municipality--were motivated by clan war.

“The latest victim was a 51-year-old man who was attacked in Sitio Tenorio, Barangay Awang, Datu Odin Sinsuat, Maguindanao at 9 a.m. Thursday,” Canda said.


2021.01.27 Philippines Tulunan 2 killed 6 injured Islamists plant a bomb at a bus station, killing two patrons

A local report says 1 person was killed and 3 injured. Religionofpeace doubled the numbers. Also, extortion, not religion, was the motive behind the bombing.

Extortion group behind Tulunan bombing: SITG

The police’s Special Investigation Task Group (SITG) Sibsib has identified the Al Khobar extortion group as responsible for the Jan. 27 bombing incident here that killed one and injured three others.

Napat said “extortion” on the bus company was the primary motive in the bombing that killed fruit vendor Gina Paunon, 53.


All of the following are false claims made by ISIS, but religionofpeace included these events in their list anyway.


2023.09.19 Philippines Lanao del Norte 4 killed Four Christian farmers are brutally shot in the head by apparent ISIS.

Never happened.

2023.07.13 Philippines Maguindanao 3 killed 3 injured Several locals lose their lives to armed Islamic extremists.

Never happened.

2023.02.10 Philippines Maguing 4 killed 3 injured Four people are killed in an ambush by elements of the Moro Islamic Front.

Never happened.

2022.05.25 Philippines Bindatin 6 killed 10 injured Islamic extremists ambush a security patrol, killing six members.

Never happened.

2022.05.25 Philippines Maguindanao 6 killed 10 injured The ISEAP group claims the killing of six soldiers in a recent ambush.

Never happened.

2021.08.21 Philippines Lindongan 3 killed 3 injured Mujahideen claim the killing of three local soldiers.

Never happened.


If religionofpeace has this many errors in its reporting from just one country over a short period of time, just imagine how many there are in total on that site. Like I said, it's garbage.

rjs330 said:

I find it very helpful in understanding rhe problems with Islam.

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Despite anything it may claim, that site was created to intentionally mislead people and to create a fear of Muslims and Islam.

Religionofpeace even uses an extremist interpretation of the Qur'an throughout it's site and even recommends people use this translation over others.

"We recommend the Noble Quran, a recent translation by Islamic scholars, but one that is generally faithful to the Arabic."

Below are a few articles where the Noble Qur'an is discussed:

QUR’AN: Playing into the Hands of the Extremists? (Hilali-Khan Qur’an Translation)

Muslim Extremism Found in Problematic Quran Translation

Hilali-Khan Qur’an Translation

More words about eternal security...



2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:
4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
6 By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

1 Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:
7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

I’ve purposely been avoiding Maxwell House coffee because I live in an apartment and my name’s not Maxwell.

Clare73 said:

Thanks!

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You are most welcome.


Philemon 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

I smell a maga boycott brewing.

Unqualified said:

Lord God you are the healer. I pray about her tumor that it would go away. And I pray for a healing for her and complete restoration of her body to normal. And I pray and ask this in the precious Name of Jesus. Amen

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Thank you

fhansen said:

Claire, as intelligent as you are you nonetheless seem to go out of your way to avoid logic and truth here. Consider the whole chapter, the whole letter, together. Humanity became truly guilty of possessing that sin, meaning they was as distanced from God as Adam now was in Adam's fallen state and so all men became truly and unavoidably and personally sinners, unrighteous, as a result. Jesus came to rectify that situation, to make us truly and personaly righteous, as were were created to be as he reconciles us with God, restoring that state of justice, marked by communion with God, that we were created for.

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I think Clare may accept the scriptures, as they do a good job explaining themselves, and you are right to say that, that distance from God meant the world were sinners, and unrighteous, and yes a correction was required, to make us turn from those sins and vanities by our Lord Jesus Christ being raised up, so we believe in better, not just the sin of Adam but the death through it, to now be aware of the righteousness of Gods Son and the life that comes with it..


Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Xeno.of.athens said:

Nope. Catholics rightly believe and teach that "all scripture is inspired by God and useful ..." without accepting "sola scriptura".

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Does that mean you accept that which is not in Scripture?