Strong in Him said:

Yes - and yet he went out with the other disciples to heal the sick and drive out demons, Luke 9:1. We are not told that Judas didn't go.
Jesus had previously asked, "how can Satan drive out Satan?"

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Apparently you mised it? I was saying that Judas initially embraced the gifts of the Spirit, the knowledge of God, and the ministry. But it was never a complete commitment to God's authority over his will.

At some point, Judas not just turned to his Natural Man, rejecting the Spiritual Man, but exposed his deficient commitment to Jesus' lordship. He retained his own independent will, and ultimately, completely capitulated to it. He would drive out Satan, via exorcism, while he was obediently following Jesus' instructions to all 12, to go out into the cities of Israel, proclaiming the Kingdom of God, and delivering people by the power of God.

But when Judas decided to turn completely to the Natural Man, he turned away from ministry, from the power of God, and would no longer be able to drive out Satan. He had already shown that he was a devil, retaining his own independent will and tendency to reject Jesus. In turning completely over to the dark side he exposed that he was, in fact, a devil, and could no longer use God's power to cast out demons. He was himself a kind of "demon" and eventually became one.

Strong in Him said:

Who says Judas "turned away from salvation"?

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He had the evil nature in him that did not completely commit to Jesus' lordship. I showed you the verses that suggest this. He was called a "demon" and a "traitor" in anticipation of what he would do, having already shown who he was beneath the veneer. He could obey, but he could not hide who he was.

I never said Judas was ever "Saved." He lacked the kind of faith that embraced God's lordship over his will. He only had faith to exercise spiritual gifts that Jesus offered to him. That was insufficient for Salvation, apart from a complete commitment to Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Strong in Him said:

In my view, his only mistake was that he didn't wait for/believe in the resurrection. Had he done so, he might have discovered that Jesus was willing to forgive him.

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You're welcome to your view.

Strong in Him said:

Are you saying that Jesus' death on the cross, which he had predicted and which was God's will, was a "negative consequence" of Judas' actions?

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No. The negative consequence of Judas' complete turn to darkness was the social disgrace he exhibited in condemning an innocent man for profit.

Strong in Him said:

I was also asking how Judas could have been a devil yet sent out by Jesus to drive out devils. So far, no one has answered.
Not that this has anything to do with Hebrews 6 anyway.

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I answered that before, and I've answered it again in case I wasn't clear. Judas could exorcise demons when he walked in obedience in the ministry Jesus called him to--even though beneath the veneeer of "discipleship" he was viewed, by Jesus, as a "devil." He was not casting out demons by the power of Satan, but by the power of his spiritual calling.

Strong in Him said:

I'm asking how anyone can know that Judas would not have turned back to Jesus after the resurrection - if he had lived long enough.
He wasn't perfect - who was? But Jesus came to die on the cross for us, and this would have happened with, or without, Judas' betrayal.

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It's clear that some people embrace Christ as Lord and Savior, despite their imperfections. It is equally clear that some reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, even if they obey in some respects and are able to do some good as they were created to do.

Strong in Him said:

You have no idea whether Judas saw all Jesus' miracles, heard his teaching, saw Lazarus raised from the dead and thought to deliberately reject all that and Messiah Jesus. Or whether he believed Jesus to be the Messiah - and everyone knew that the Messiah was going to be a warrior king and drive out the Romans - and, mistakenly, thought he could force Jesus' hand.

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I don't have to know everything about Judas to know what he was about. The Scriptures tell us.

Strong in Him said:

It still has nothing to do with Hebrews 6.

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I disagree. I think it is perfectly appropriate to apply Heb 6. Judas gave up on the only source of atonement that could cover his sin.

Therefore, he had no other means to apply for atonement for his sins. He had experienced enough of Jesus to know he was the source of atonement. But he obviously turned away, not just out of weakness, but out of malice and greed, and most especially out of a lack of complete acceptance of Jesus' authority over his will. The other Disciples did not hold back in their devotion to Christ as Lord and Savior.

Strong in Him said:

Why then would Jesus have chosen someone who would never be made clean by his word and who was a devil?

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God chose a bad actor to display Christ in his act of atonement for the sins of mankind. It is proper to use evil men to show true evil in the world, and to show flawed men in their weakness as objects of God's love and forgiveness. But evil men and weak men can stand on different sides of the room.

Strong in Him said:

How do you know? This is what I'm asking.

There IS a view that Judas thought that, as the Messiah, Jesus would drive the Romans out of Israel. But he was not doing that/not acting as fast as Judas wanted. So he betrayed him to force his hand - he fully expected Jesus to fight back.
When Jesus didn't - or maybe even couldn't - but was led away to die, Judas was remorseful, believed he had betrayed an innocent man, gave the money back and went and ended his own life.

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Good theory, but I don't know all of Judas' rationale. I think you may be right that he wanted Jesus to deliver Israel as Messiah from the Romans, and fast. But in doing so he rejected Jesus' authority to slow things down in order to bring mercy not just to Israel but also to the Romans.

Again, this is a lack of commitment to Jesus' authority. Judas could've been forgiven if he was less committed to his own authority over his will than Jesus' authority over his will.

Strong in Him said:

What I'm challenging is the very dogmatic view that Judas deliberately chose to reject Jesus because Judas was a devil and had deliberately planned it. Jesus would have been arrested and crucified with, or without, Judas' involvement.

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Scriptures indicate Jesus knew in advance who Judas was. It doesn't explain how this came to be.

Colo Millz said:

But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready.

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Not being Paul, you are not authorized to claim this of yourself. . .which claim explains a lot.

Support your opinion with explicit Scripture, or it remains only your opinion.

AV1611VET said:

Latinos

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Latinos are not the same as Latin.

Latin refers to anyone of Roman descent and/or anyone who speaks a Romance language, while Latino specifically refers to anyone in Latin America.

Clare73 said:

...

A more Biblical mind is called for here.

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But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready.

Colo Millz said:

The fire of God is heaven to some but hell to others.
The same divine reality is joy to the redeemed and torment to the damned.
This is not a very controversial idea.
2 Corinthians 2:15–16
For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life.

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Aroma and fire are not the same thing.

Tuur said:

Title says it call. Here's a link to the news story:

California woman faces 5 felonies for registering dog to vote

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Sweet puppeee. . .

David Lamb said:

Sorry, what do you men by heaven and hell having the same root? Are you talking about the origin of the words "heaven" and "hell", either in English or in the original bible languages, or do you mean that heaven and hell share a common origin?

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The fire of God is heaven to some but hell to others.

The same divine reality is joy to the redeemed and torment to the damned.

This is not a very controversial idea.

2 Corinthians 2:15–16

For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing, to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life.

RDKirk said:

There is no overarching international authority legislating and enforcing "Maritine Law." Maritine Law is merely agreement between nations to operate cordially with one another.

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An agreement we made.

RDKirk said:

There is certainly no "Maritine Law" that requires the US to use the Coast Guard instead of the Navy for any purpose. That's a matter for the US government to determine by internal legislation.

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That's right, it used to be US policy.

Tuur said:

Odd. If the goal is to reduce such incidents, then the place to correct it in the desire to do harm. God can change the human heart; laws cannot.

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By that logic, why have any laws at all? The solution to drunk driving is to remove the desire to drink... Go to God. The place to correct the desire to steal is God, not with laws to stealing... Go to God. The place to correct child abuse is to remove the desire to hurt children... Go to God.

The 80th annual UN General Assembly will take place from 9 to 23 Sep, with a special High Level Debate session from 23 to 30 Sep. We expect Israel to be heavily criticised during these sessions. In addition, many nations are threatening to recognise a "Palestinian" state during this time. Israel's response to all this needs our prayer support.

King of kings, we pray that Your foreign policy on earth, including at the UN, will be implemented and that You will use Israel to hasten its fulfilment

The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy G-d, and walk in his ways. And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee. And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy G-d, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them: Deu 28:9-10 .13
Arise, O Lord; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight. Put them in fear, O Lord: that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Selah. Ps 9:19-20
The Lord bringeth the counsel of the heathen to nought: he maketh the devices of the people of none effect. The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations. Ps 33:10-11
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. Lk 11:2

G-d of Israel, as with Balaam, turn the curses against Your people from nations, global NGOs such as the UN, and the mainstream media into blessings, simply because You love them

Nevertheless the Lord thy G-d would not hearken unto Balaam; but the Lord thy G-d turned the curse into a blessing unto thee, because the Lord thy G-d loved thee. Deu 23:5
Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words. Deu 33:3

Abba Father, watch over Job 12:17-21 and Psalm 2:4-5 during the upcoming UN sessions

He leadeth counsellors away spoiled, and maketh the judges fools. He looseth the bond of kings, and girdeth their loins with a girdle. He leadeth princes away spoiled, and overthroweth the mighty. He removeth away the speech of the trusty, and taketh away the understanding of the aged. He poureth contempt upon princes, and weakeneth the strength of the mighty. Job 12:17-21
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Ps 2:4-5

Almighty G-d, strengthen Your protection and anointing over Israel's UN Ambassador Danny Danon and all others who are part of the Israeli delegation

I am the Lord thy G-d, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it. Ps 81:10
With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth. Ps 119:13

King of Israel, if Bibi is to speak at the upcoming UN meetings, use him so that his words are a prophetic warning from Zion to the world

Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord. Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth. See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant. Jer 1:8-10
And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house. And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they are most rebellious. Ezek 2:6-7

G-d, use this global pressure to move Israel to be the nation that dwells alone

lo, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations. Num 23:9b

Regarding the recognition of a "Palestine" on Your land, Lord, we confess Isa 7:7 and 8:9-10!

Thus saith the Lord G-d, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. Isa 7:7
Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces. Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for G-d is with us. Isa 8:9-10

Lord Jesus, reveal to believers how dangerous the recognition of a terrorist state on Your land is for a nation. If their nation supports this, then burden them to cry out for mercy

For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. Isa 60:12
And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none. Ezek 22:30
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. Joel 3:1-2

We praise You for the much more aggressive stance taken by the Israeli Foreign Ministry under Gideon Sa'ar, especially because it speaks the truth and rebukes the lies spread against Israel

Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Gal 4:16

Continue to put Your word in the mouths of all Israel's international representatives

Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth. Jer 1:9
Wherefore thus saith the Lord G-d of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them. Jer 5:14

Strong in Him said:

Yes - and yet he went out with the other disciples to heal the sick and drive out demons, Luke 9:1. We are not told that Judas didn't go.
Jesus had previously asked, "how can Satan drive out Satan?"
Who says Judas "turned away from salvation"?
In my view, his only mistake was that he didn't wait for/believe in the resurrection. Had he done so, he might have discovered that Jesus was willing to forgive him.
Are you saying that Jesus' death on the cross, which he had predicted and which was God's will, was a "negative consequence" of Judas' actions?
Jesus' sacrifice was prophesied back in Genesis 3:15 and Peter calls him the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:20.

I'm challenging that perception - certainly.
Judas was clearly remorseful after Jesus' arrest. He went back to the chief priests, said that he had betrayed an innocent man and threw the money back at them.
They didn't care - because they had got what they wanted; Judas on the other hand, took his own life.

Click to expand...

I was also asking how Judas could have been a devil yet sent out by Jesus to drive out devils. So far, no one has answered.

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Do you think Judas or any other apostle drove out devils by their own power?
Jesus gave the power to Judas just as he gave it to the other apostles.

Strong in Him said:

Not that this has anything to do with Hebrews 6 anyway.
I'm asking how anyone can know that Judas would not have turned back to Jesus after the resurrection - if he had lived long enough.
He wasn't perfect - who was? But Jesus came to die on the cross for us, and this would have happened with, or without, Judas' betrayal.
And Judas might have returned too - if he hadn't taken his own life.
You have no idea whether Judas saw all Jesus' miracles, heard his teaching, saw Lazarus raised from the dead and thought to deliberately reject all that and Messiah Jesus. Or whether he believed Jesus to be the Messiah - and everyone knew that the Messiah was going to be a warrior king and drive out the Romans - and, mistakenly, thought he could force Jesus' hand.

It still has nothing to do with Hebrews 6.

Why then would Jesus have chosen someone who would never be made clean by his word and who was a devil?

How do you know? This is what I'm asking.

There IS a view that Judas thought that, as the Messiah, Jesus would drive the Romans out of Israel. But he was not doing that/not acting as fast as Judas wanted. So he betrayed him to force his hand - he fully expected Jesus to fight back.
When Jesus didn't - or maybe even couldn't - but was led away to die, Judas was remorseful, believed he had betrayed an innocent man, gave the money back and went and ended his own life.

What I'm challenging is the very dogmatic view that Judas deliberately chose to reject Jesus because Judas was a devil and had deliberately planned it. Jesus would have been arrested and crucified with, or without, Judas' involvement.

And this still has nothing to do with Hebrews 6.

Click to expand...

NewLifeInChristJesus said:

It was a shock to my system when I found out that we have no original works (except maybe one scrap) for any Scripture. All we have are copies and copies of copies which for centuries were copied by hand. Obviously, they are not all identical. So necessity dictates that we must choose among the variants which is most trustworthy. And transparency dictates that we must include footnotes where significant variants exist. How else could we do it?

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It's ok of course that we are of a different understanding about this issue. In my opinion the most genuine translations are those from the Traditional Text base manuscript copies, because this base contains the majority of all available manuscript copies.

"The Majority Text is a compilation of readings found in the majority of the more than 5,800 Greek New Testament manuscripts that exist. However, there is no single manuscript or finite number that constitutes the "Majority Text" itself, but rather a specific set of readings chosen because they represent the consensus of the most numerous manuscripts within the Byzantine text-type tradition." -AI Google


"The term "minority text" can refer to various concepts, but for the Alexandrian text-type, which is a significant minority text, there are approximately 30 surviving Greek manuscripts, although this number is small compared to the vast number of Byzantine manuscripts, according to a Wikipedia article. These Alexandrian manuscripts represent a much smaller collection of evidence that differs from the majority texts of the New Testament.

"The Minority Text is not a single collection but a category representing the minority of Greek New Testament manuscripts that differ from the majority Byzantine tradition. There is no single fixed number of manuscripts because it's a concept rather than a specific edition, with estimates suggesting the minority texts represent about 20% less of the total manuscripts." -AI Google

Always in His Presence said:

September 4

FBI search of Bolton’s home yielded binders, phones and computers, DOJ says​

The FBI’s search of former Donald Trump national security adviser John Bolton’s home last month was part of a criminal investigation into the unauthorized removal and retention of classified records and the improper gathering, transmitting or losing of national defense information, according to paperwork the Justice Department made public in court on Thursday.

During the search of Bolton’s Bethesda, Maryland, home, FBI agents removed typed documents in folders labeled “Trump I-IV” and a white binder labeled “statements and reflections to allied strikes …,” the records say. They also collected two iPhones, four computers and hard drives and two USB drives.

A court had authorized the FBI to seek out documents that might have been classified related to Bolton’s former position as national security adviser during Trump’s first term in office, among other things. The agents were also permitted to press Bolton’s fingers onto devices if his fingerprints were needed to unlock them, or hold the devices in front of his face for facial recognition unlocking, the warrant documents say. (Bolton was not at home during the search.)

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They took a bunch of stuff, but was any of it classified or illicit? I guess we'll find out.

RandyPNW said:

Only Judas was called a "devil."

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Yes - and yet he went out with the other disciples to heal the sick and drive out demons, Luke 9:1. We are not told that Judas didn't go.
Jesus had previously asked, "how can Satan drive out Satan?"

RandyPNW said:

It is a truism--if you turn away from Salvation, you never got Saved.

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Who says Judas "turned away from salvation"?
In my view, his only mistake was that he didn't wait for/believe in the resurrection. Had he done so, he might have discovered that Jesus was willing to forgive him.

RandyPNW said:

You may regret the consequences of your choice to betray the knowledge you had. But that does not mean one disinherits the free choice that may lead to those negative consequences.

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Are you saying that Jesus' death on the cross, which he had predicted and which was God's will, was a "negative consequence" of Judas' actions?
Jesus' sacrifice was prophesied back in Genesis 3:15 and Peter calls him the lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world, 1 Peter 1:20.

RandyPNW said:

You seem to question this process that Judas went through, of initially embracing the gifts of spiritual power, and then rejecting Jesus completely?

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I'm challenging that perception - certainly.
Judas was clearly remorseful after Jesus' arrest. He went back to the chief priests, said that he had betrayed an innocent man and threw the money back at them.
They didn't care - because they had got what they wanted; Judas on the other hand, took his own life.

I was also asking how Judas could have been a devil yet sent out by Jesus to drive out devils. So far, no one has answered.
Not that this has anything to do with Hebrews 6 anyway.

RandyPNW said:

You seem to compare the failure of the Disciples in temporarily falling away before the Cross?

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I'm asking how anyone can know that Judas would not have turned back to Jesus after the resurrection - if he had lived long enough.
He wasn't perfect - who was? But Jesus came to die on the cross for us, and this would have happened with, or without, Judas' betrayal.

RandyPNW said:

In John 6.70 Jesus distinguished Judas Iscariot from the rest of the 12. In John 18.5 Judas is called a "traitor," distinguishing him from the temporary betrayal of Peter and the rest of the Disciples who abandoned Jesus in weakness before the Cross. Jesus predicted they would return.

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And Judas might have returned too - if he hadn't taken his own life.

You have no idea whether Judas saw all Jesus' miracles, heard his teaching, saw Lazarus raised from the dead and thought to deliberately reject all that and Messiah Jesus. Or whether he believed Jesus to be the Messiah - and everyone knew that the Messiah was going to be a warrior king and drive out the Romans - and, mistakenly, thought he could force Jesus' hand.

It still has nothing to do with Hebrews 6.

RandyPNW said:

Jesus distinguished Judas as one who was never made clean by Jesus' word.

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Why then would Jesus have chosen someone who would never be made clean by his word and who was a devil?

RandyPNW said:

And it was his inherent uncleanness that prompted his betrayal--not just his weakness.

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How do you know? This is what I'm asking.

There IS a view that Judas thought that, as the Messiah, Jesus would drive the Romans out of Israel. But he was not doing that/not acting as fast as Judas wanted. So he betrayed him to force his hand - he fully expected Jesus to fight back.
When Jesus didn't - or maybe even couldn't - but was led away to die, Judas was remorseful, believed he had betrayed an innocent man, gave the money back and went and ended his own life.

What I'm challenging is the very dogmatic view that Judas deliberately chose to reject Jesus because Judas was a devil and had deliberately planned it. Jesus would have been arrested and crucified with, or without, Judas' involvement.

And this still has nothing to do with Hebrews 6.

Tropical Wilds said:

This was a school that had religious instruction, and the gunman had ties to it. In fact, that is a pretty common theme in religious school shootings.

But hey, if you want religious instruction to return to schools, why not? Maybe people learning about the core tenants of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca/Paganism, and other religions will bring some perspective to people who lack worldviews outside of their own.

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Odd. If the goal is to reduce such incidents, then the place to correct it in the desire to do harm. God can change the human heart; laws cannot.

David Lamb said:

Sorry, what do you men by heaven and hell having the same root? Are you talking about the origin of the words "heaven" and "hell", either in English or in the original bible languages, or do you mean that heaven and hell share a common origin?

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Thought you'd never get here!

Michie said:

This timeless practice has remarkable benefits for the human mind.​

Every once in a while, you run into a new piece of information that really opens your eyes to a whole new world.

Today, I am taking a break from the regular news cycle to bring you something that really rocked my world: thisEpoch Timesarticle on classical music.

Now, before you close this page, thinking this Substack will be a waste of time, give me just two short minutes to prove why you are wrong.

It turns out the “Mozart effect” truly exists, and you don’t have to be a musician to reap the benefits. Take dementia patients, for example.

Professional violinist Ayako Yonetani told The Epoch Times that when she performs for people with dementia, something remarkable happens: they often become more alert, are visibly moved by the music, and at times experience moments of clarity with their families again.

In one particular case, a gray-haired older woman, whose cognition was degraded to sitting motionless with her gaze lowered, suddenly had “her eyes brightened” as she tried to follow along with Yonetani’s performance.

The family reported that “They had never seen her react like this before,” but Ms. Yonetani says this was just one of many times where she noticed a staggering response in dementia patients.

Continued below.

The #1 Sound Your Brain Secretly Wants to Hear

This timeless practice has remarkable benefits for the human mind.

www.vigilantfox.com

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Boom. That article should be read by everyone.
Does classical music make people smarter?
I believe so, those experiments that say Mozart Effect didn't hold up were absurd -- they were too short, and the sample sizes too small.
The benefits of classical music come from Long Term listening, not 15 or 20 minutes.

RandyPNW said:

With the Babylonian Captivity yes, Judah came to represent all 12 tribes, and ultimately under a single king. However, the prophecy in Eze 37 is talking about when the single Kingdom of Israel comes under the reign of Messiah. That has not yet been fulfilled.

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Yes, it is about the end time also, but its a double entendre and has to be. If God gives a prophesy and it happened via the Assyrian's and it changed two kingdoms unto one, that is when God's prophesy came true, earlier in Ezekiel 37 we saw that one day Israel (Dry Bones) will will see their state of being changed, from Dead Dry Bones into sinew, but with no breath (holy spirit) in them, so yes, God brings Israel back into he land but God also led the into captivity, and called them dry bones, and a forsaken people, Paul says in Romans 11 that All Israel will be saved. And in Deuteronomy 30 God prophesied Israel would be led into captivity, then brought back into the land.

Deuteronomy 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath driven thee, (Israel's Diaspora)

2 And shalt return unto the Lord thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3 That then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the Lord thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

We know the Diaspora was Israel, not just Jews, Jesus even stated he came for the Lost Sheep of Israel, which meat Israel were in the land up unto 70 AD. So, the prophesy of turning the land into One Nation again happened after/during the Assyrian siege, and has never changed right? Even though Jesus the son of David as per his lineage, will rule over Israel for the 1000 year Kingdom Age, the one nation switch only happens over 2500 years ago, if there has never been two nations since, it had to happen over 2500 years ago. Yes, Jesus is a part of the prophetic end, but that more or less means Jesus, the Son of David, will rule over that ONE NATION at the very end.

The Barbarian said:

The first example found was in the Neander river valley. "Neandertal" in German.

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Already said that. Post #261.