SabbathBlessings said:

No the Ten Commandments was not "done away with" they are in God's heavenly Temple Rev11:18-19 Rev15:5 what man will be judged on regardless if we accept them or not Rev 22:14-15 Ecc 12:13-14 John12:48 Exo20:1 Exo31:18 James2:11-12 covering the law doesn't make it go away, it just makes things worse Pro28:13 John3:19-21

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Are you then denying the scripture that tells us they were done away? You use rev 22: 14-15 as a reference. Are you telling me that if I do not observe the rituals given to one nation, Israel, I am a dog? Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. Does your reference to Jn 12:48 mean that because I do not observe the Israelite rituals, you believe I am condemned? 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.

Hentenza said:

They do all the time. Thugs run from police and resist police all the time. Most carry guns and use them against police or federal agents. It’s a fact of their chosen carrier.

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I see. If the government suspects I'm trafficking drugs, they're within their rights to kill me without first providing an opportunity to surrender?

Bob S said:

After reading all the debating, I have a question: where in all the scriptures does God ever demand that Gentiles observe the law concerning the keeping of the weekly Sabbath or any of the eight other high Sabbaths? Another question: Israelites had to become circumcised, obviously to take part in the ceremonial requirements.

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It is also written that unless you eat the flesh of Jesus, you have no life in you. So how wise is it to accept that the eating of Christ's Flesh was a spiritual commandment, but the Circumcision God wanted was not. Did God instruct Moses to pass on, "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked?

The children of Israel that fell in the wilderness were all circumcised in the flesh. Perhaps God didn't make Circumcision are an excuse for men to reject God's Commandments, maybe if a man was "circumcised of the heart", as God instructed, they wouldn't need to justify their rejection of God's commandments.

And it's also needful to remind you that the Children of those who fell in the wilderness crossed over Jordan, and God protected and preserved them to the fear and trembling of the people of that land, and NOT One of them, but Joshua and Caleb were Circumcised.

I advocate that men do the study for themselves, apart from the influences of the religions of this world God placed us in.

RandyPNW said:

The Reformation did bring a change in eschatological outlook. For example, Ribera and Lacunza set the path for a Futurism that anticipated a future Antichrist, and not the Pope. And the Dispensationalists followed after with their unique brand of Futurism. This is perhaps what led to the revival of Chiliasm?

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I wouldn’t know, because the Eastern Orthodox were never subject to the Pope of Rome, nor were the Oriental Orthodox or the Church of the East, so any eschatology constructed around the Pope seems a bit off from our perspective. There exists a false Catholic vs. Protestant dichotomy that emerged in some of the Reformed churches (Calvinist, Zwinglian and Puritan) which doesn’t recognize us as distinct, even if John Calvin himself did - we are rather just regarded as being equally guilty of “shameless popery” and presumed to be servants of the Pope when this has not been the case since 1054 in the case of the Eastern Orthodox and 451 in the case of the Oriental Orthodox.

Indeed, until recent events such as Vatican II, the Roman Catholic Church regarded the Eastern Orthodox as schismatic and the Oriental Orthodox and Assyrian Church of the East as being heretical. Now members of all three are able to receive the sacraments in Roman Catholic parishes, and vice versa, provided the bishops allow (thus, practically, only the Assyrian Church of the East, for the requirements to partake of the Eucharist there are belief in the Nicene Creed and the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist); some Oriental Orthodox will also give communion to Catholics and refer their members to Catholic churches if no Orthodox churches are accessible, notably the Syriac Orthodox.

bling said:

I agree πίστις comes from God after regeneration, but regeneration must be accepted by man...

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You grant that πίστις follows regeneration, yet insist regeneration follows "accepting" it. That is a circular impossibility. Scripture presents regeneration not as an offer to be received, but as an act of divine recreation that enables reception (John 1:13; 3:3-8; Titus 3:5). Where in Scripture do you see regeneration ever depicted as something God proposes for man to "accept"?

Fallen man is not neutral toward God; he is hostile (Rom. 8:7), unable to submit to His law, and unable to please Him (v. 8). If the "acceptance" of regeneration is a pleasing act to God, how can one perform it while still in a state of hostility and inability? The very act you propose as preceding regeneration requires the spiritual life that regeneration alone imparts. This is not a question of mere intellectual capacity to assent to propositions, but of moral and spiritual disposition. The fallen heart is irreversibly biased against the things of God and therefore not able to receive them (Rom. 8:7-8; John 6:44) until divine renewal takes place.

bling said:

...with accepting God’s Love (Charity) in the form of forgiveness.

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The love of God is received after the Spirit sheds it in the heart (Rom. 5:5), which occurs post-regeneration. One cannot "accept" divine love while remaining unregenerate and hostile to its Giver.

bling said:

This “Kind of believe” you talk about can be directed toward your creator in the acceptance of charity from your hated enemy (God) and prior to obtaining πίστις.

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Can you argue this from Scripture?

bling said:

Everything hinges on the definition of “Spiritually dead” and if the person that is spiritually dead can do something for himself (selfishly). We know the “spiritual dead” person can still physically feed himself, so what else can he do for himself?

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You're equivocating on the term "spiritually dead." The fact that an unregenerate person can eat, walk, or speak has no bearing on his ability to turn to God. Scripture nowhere denies natural functionality; it denies spiritual receptivity. Spiritual death (νεκροὺς, Eph. 2:1, 5; Col. 2:13) refers to total moral and spiritual incapacity toward God (Eph. 2:1-3; Rom. 8:7-8; John 6:44, 65). The "dead" man is still alive biologically, yet he is alienated from the life of God (Eph. 4:18) and dominated by corrupt desires (Gen. 6:5; Rom. 3:10-12).

Scripture does not depict man as merely wounded or partially disabled, but as utterly unable to incline himself Godward apart from divine initiative. Physical capacity does not mitigate spiritual inability; it only underscores the irony that one may be fully active in the world and yet lifeless toward God.

bling said:

How do you get around Jesus explaining to us that a person spiritually dead like the prodigal son can turn to the Father?

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One needn't "get around" it if it is read according to its intended teaching. The parable is not a treatise on regeneration or the mechanics of conversion; it's a didactic story illustrating God's gracious forgiveness toward repentant sinners within the covenant people. The father embodies God's readiness to forgive, and the son's return illustrates repentance and receptivity that flow from the father's prior gracious disposition. Jesus' audience (the Pharisees) are the implied contrast, highlighting their inability to rejoice in God's grace. The parable assumes divine initiative in drawing the son home; it does not portray the unregenerate sinner as capable of effecting his own turning apart from God.

The phrase νεκρὸς ἦν καὶ ἀνέζησεν ("was dead and is alive again," Luke 15:24) is metaphorical, not ontological. It communicates relational estrangement and restoration within Israel's covenant framework, not a technical statement about the sinner's capacity for self-generated faith. The "dead/alive" language narratively conveys the joy of reconciliation and the father's gracious response, not an ordo salutis.

bling said:

...but selfishly (sinfully) wanting to humbly accept pure underserved charity.

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Even if that were true in the parable, it proves nothing about spiritual ability. Christ's purpose is to depict the Father's mercy, not the son's psychology. The son's "selfish" motive is incidental; the parable centers on the father's initiative. He first acts, restores, and rejoices.

More importantly, fallen self-interest cannot serve as the ground for receiving divine grace. Scripture consistently grounds regeneration and justification in God's sovereign action, not in any natural human impulse (Titus 3:5; John 6:44). The prodigal's confession, "I have sinned," reflects conviction and repentance produced by God's work, not an innate capacity to turn to Him.

So your appeal to the parable collapses if used to justify pre-regenerative "self-acceptance" of God's love, because the son is already alive in the narrative act of returning. The "coming to himself" is the very moment of awakening that corresponds to regeneration (cf. Eph. 2:5, "made us alive").

bling said:

You are right for I am not talking about “believe in Christ”, but “trusting” in God unbelievable illogical Love.

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Where do you see Scripture distinguish a pre-regenerate trust in divine benevolence as a separate category from faith? The divine agape is revealed in Christ crucified (Rom. 5:8; 1 John 4:9-10). To speak of "trusting God's love" apart from union with Christ is to separate what Scripture unites, and posit an objectless faith. Even intellectually apprehending the claims of Christianity is not an act of trust but mere exposure to propositions, which, apart from regeneration, results only in indifference or hostility (2 Cor. 4:4; Rom. 8:7-8).

Are you suggesting that natural man possesses spiritual perception and volition toward God, not merely abstract awareness or assent? Those very capacities are precisely what regeneration imparts (cf. 1 Cor. 2:14).

Always in His Presence said:

Donald Trump is the only American President who has been awarded the Grand Order of Mugunghwa

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"By statute, the Grand Order of Mugunghwa is the highest decoration in Korea; however, in the eyes of the public, it is not well regarded. Many Koreans feel that the order has far less significance. This is because it is self-awarded and is based on winning an election, not on any positive achievements for the country. It is also given to foreign heads of state, not necessarily because of what they have done for Korea, but for what they may do for Korea in the future."

RandyPNW said:

Don't get me wrong. The organized denominations will continue to exist, and in large numbers. I just think that their vitality is dying out, turning the interest in Christ into an interest in religion and ethics.

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Well this is clearly the case for some, but for others, we see more vitality, since increasingly young people, particularly young male worshippers, drawn to the structure of liturgical worship - and the liturgies of the early church used by the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, traditional Catholics, traditional Anglicans, confessional Lutherans such as my friends @MarkRohfrietsch and @Ain't Zwinglian and the Assyrian Church of the East in many cases can be dated to the third century on the basis of manuscript evidence and in other cases have even older dates. Also the ancient liturgies are fundamentally scriptural - 93% of the Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom consists of quotations of Scripture, not counting the scripture lessons appointed to be read at the particular liturgy, and this number is typical across most liturgical churches (so one will see a similar amount of scripture in the liturgies of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, the Lutheran Service Book used by our friends Mark and Ain’t Zwinglian, the Roman Missal, the Oriental Orthodox liturgical books such as the Coptic Euchologion (with the exquisite Divine Liturgy of St. Cyril, among others, which has a second century provenance, and the Euchologion itself is descended from the fourth century Euchologion - book of blessings, basically, of St. Sarapaion of Thmuis, a bishop who served in the Alexandrian church during the Arian crises).

Also the average age of hymns in the ancient liturgies is over a thousand years. And these hymns are rich and doctrinally meaningful. The newest hymns one is likely to encounter in some of the tradiitonal Western churches are the very doctrinally rich chorales of Martin Luther and Charles Wesley and a few others (Arthur Sullivan comes to mind), but the primary hymns of the Western church, such as the Gloria, the Sanctus, the Agnus Dei, Te Deum Laudamus, and others, are either extremely old or are simply translations of ancient Bible verses.

Always in His Presence said:

I guess it really aggravates you.

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You guessed wrong. I’ve never even heard of this award.

Why is this so important to you? Does it help you feel better about Trump if he’s constantly being praised and rewarded by other foreign leaders?

Apple Sky said:

So you don't think this resembles a Mexican hat ?

View attachment 372306

Oh well never mind.

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Mexican hats are circular, not square.

Apple Sky said:

How can they be when the Bible teaches that there is a firmament above with waters above that & that the moon gives off her own light plus there are man other verses which relates to a level earth ?

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We keep coming back to the same thing. I am sure everybody here believes there is a firmament. However, the Hebrew word used doesn't only mean "a solid dome." It can also mean "expanse." You interpret the bible as saying that the firmament is a solid dome. Others of us believe it is an expanse.

David Lamb said:

In that case, especially as the title printed on the picture was "Square and Stationary Earth", it would have made things a lot clearer if you had put something like you have just written, to explain that you don't believe the earth is square, but it was the only picture of a Mexican hat you could find. I just did a search for images of Mexican hat, and loads came up, all circular. Indeed, I have never heard of a square Mexican hat before. Here is one that I found (but it neither looks like the shape you think the earth to be, nor the shape I think it is.

View attachment 372304

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So you don't think this resembles a Mexican hat ?



Oh well never mind.

RileyG said:

Yikes! I wasn't aware of that at all! Lord have mercy!

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Yeah. Back in the days of "The Troubles", Paisley, Sr. was quite the player in Northern Ireland's politics; he was actually more rabble-rouser than preacher---he used his pulpit as a stage to launch his bigotry. Him and another so-called "reverend" by the name of Martin Smythe were quite infamous all through the 1970s and early 80s for inciting hatred against the Catholics. I have no idea whatever happened to Smythe, but I do know that Paisley mellowed somewhat during the 1990s while he was involved in peace negotiations with Martin McGuinness, the former chief of staff for the Provisional Irish Republican Army.....amazingly, the two developed a kind of rapport that allowed them to be decent to one another, without actually agreeing with one another.

If you're interested in exploring this further, I would recommend two different resources, both of which can be had from Amazon. The first is a book entitled "Ireland: A Terrible Beauty", by Leon and Jill Uris, first published in 1975. The section in the back dealing with Northern Ireland will give you a pretty good eye-opener for what was going on in Ulster in the mid-1970s, with descriptions of Paisley and Smythe and the activities of the various Protestant militia groups and the British Army:


The second is a movie docu-drama, entitled "The Journey", starring Colm Meaney and Timothy Spall, released in 2016. It portrays the "journey" by car of McGuinness and Paisley as they travel together to the peace talks, and how their mutual hostility gradually loosens up and turns to mutual respect. It gives you a coda at the end telling how the two eventually started working together after the cease-fire between the Protestant hardliners and the IRA in 1999.

Always in His Presence said:

DELIVERING PEACE AND PROSPERITY IN ONE HISTORIC DAY: Today in Kuala Lumpur, President Donald J. Trump brokered the Kuala Lumpur Peace Accords between Thailand and Cambodia, secured reciprocal trade deals with Malaysia and Cambodia, issued Joint Trade Statements with Thailand and Vietnam, elevated relations with Malaysia, and deepened U.S.-Cambodia cooperation on defense and transnational crime. President Trump also participated in the 13th annual U.S.-ASEAN Summit meeting.

What many do not know is that while in Malaysia - other world leaders were coming to meet with our President

Trump meets with Brazil leader Lula in Malaysia amid trade tensions​

President Trump and Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva met Sunday in Malaysia amid trade tensions between their two countries.

“President Trump meets with Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva at [Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)] summit,” the White House’s account on the social platform X posted Sunday, featuring a photo of the two leaders.

The Brazilian president said that the meeting went well, also stating that the two countries’ teams will begin “immediately” on tariff discussions and beyond, according to Reuters.

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Meanwhile......his nation is falling apart.

Hentenza said:

As I said before your interpretation is false teaching

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How can they be when the Bible teaches that there is a firmament above with waters above that & that the moon gives off her own light plus there are man other verses which relates to a level earth ?

RandyPNW said:

except that I see traditional Christianity appearing to "die out."

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The liberal mainline churches, perhaps, but the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches, except for the Church of Greece and the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, are growing so fast we are outpacing the Pentecostals at this point, due to a combination of high birthrates and record high conversion levels. In the US many Orthodox parishes are seeing 18% annual growth. The result is a severe shortage of clergy, since historically we only trained enough priests to meet the needs of what was expected to be a largely stable, largely ethnic population of Christians descended from those in the Old Country, but the mass popularity of Orthodoxy hoped for by many, such as Metropolitan Philip Saliba, memory eternal, and St. John Maximovitch and St. Tikhon of Moscow, is definitely happening. And we have the Western Rite also.

Likewise other traditional liturgical churches including Continuing Anglicans, the remaining traditional Latin Mass groups in the Roman Catholic Church that have not been suppressed due to Traditiones Custodes, and Confessional Lutherans are reporting very healthy growth figures.

So what you see appearing to happen is apparently a case of appearances seeming to be something other than what they are.

RandyPNW said:

I think I'd need the colors just to know what is what! But color-coding these festivals and observances I can see being valuable--in the past, particularly, because of the need for memory devices

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Liturgical colors add a great deal of beauty to the Christian church, although historically the church only used two of them - light vestments on feast days, and during the Liturgy, and dark vestments on the eves of feast, during fasts, and during Holy Week. This pattern is still strictly observed in the Coptic Orthodox Church and one can also see it in the Syriac Orthodox Church, albeit some Syriac Orthodox Churches follow a liturgical color scheme influenced by that used by many of the Eastern Orthodox Churches. However this is not required, so within the Syriac churcrh one will sometimes see different clergy wearing different vestments that are not the same color but which are color-coordinated, to a beautiful effect, which is visually stunning. If desired I can find a photo.

However, the emergence of liturgical color schemes, first in the Western Church around the year 700 I think, and later the spread to the Eastern Orthodox, largely through the Slavic churches (to this day the Greeks don’t care that much about liturgical colors, neither do the Antiochians, except in North America where they have been influenced by Slavic practices, although the Romanians cover both ends of the spectrum, as do the Georgians, so its not an exclusively Slavic thing), with different Western rites having differing liturgical colors - for example, the liturgical colors used in Milan are closer to those used by the Slavic Eastern Orthodox, whereas the colors historically used in York (red, yellow, black and white) were different from those used elsewhere, for example, in the South of England (the Sarum Use), or the color scheme used in Rome, which became the most influential. In the end it was the Roman color scheme that was inherited by the Protestant denominations most of whom, including the Lutheran and Anglicans, adopted modified versions of the Roman Rite liturgy.

Tropical Wilds said:

Consistent in his mediocrity, lol.

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Trump is many things, but 'mediocre' is not one of them.

Zohran Mamdani spews antisemitic tropes, falsely claims taxpayers foot the bill for NY pols’ Israel trips: Jewish activists​

Jewish advocates railed that the Queens state Assembly member was insinuating Jewish pols were swindling New Yorkers to benefit Israel at their expense.

“The danger that Mamdani poses to Jewish freedom in New York City is palpable,” fumed Queens Councilman Rory Lancman, a senior counsel at the non-profit Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law.

@David Lamb - snap!

Hentenza said:

Not even the Sabbath keeping is part of the new covenant. All of the law, including the Ten Commandments, has been fulfilled(completed) by Jesus sacrifice on the cross so again your argument is moot.

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That is a popular religious philosophy of this world God placed me in. It is founded on the philosophy that "Fulfill and abolish" are not opposite, but the same.

When I read God's definition of His Own New Covenant, there is no mention of God's LAWS disappearing or destroyed at all, or even "Coming to an end". You can read it for yourself.

According to what HE tells me, the only change between the New and Old covenant are 2 things.

#1. The Manner in which God's Laws are administered.

In the old covenant men were required to go to the Levite Priests, "After the Order of Aaron", who had exclusive possession of God's Laws, and "hear Moses" through them, as they were the ones God chose to give His Oracles to. But now you and I both have the oracles of God in our own homes, before our very eyes, in our minds (hearts)

#2. The Manner in which forgiveness of sins are provided for.

In the old covenant a man that sinned was required to take a goat to the Levite Priest, and kill it, after which the priest would take the blood and perform works with it, to provide for the remission of Sins. But now, the Prophesied High Priest of God, "After the Order of Melchizedek", has come. And HE will provide for the remission of Sins "Himself".

So as it is written in Heb. 7-10, it was the Priesthood that changed, and Jesus fulfilled the Prophesies concerning it, and this old priesthood sacrificial "works of the law" became obsolete . Not God's definition of Sin, Righteousness, Holy and Good, as "many" who come in Christ's Name promote.

You can read this for yourself and you should, given all the warnings about deceivers who "come in Christ's Name", who do many "wonderful works" in Christ's Name, like maybe building massive religious businesses, shrines of worship, all in His Name. Who cast out demons "in Christs Name".

Remember, according to what is written, God Glorified His Son and gave Him Power and a Name above all others, "Because that Jesus obeyed HIS voice, and kept HIS charge, HIS commandments, HIS statutes, and HIS laws."

Apple Sky said:

I posted this image as it was likened to a Mexican hat that my friend had drew out for me, it was the only image I could find that resembled a Mexcian hat.

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It doesn't look anything like a Mexican hat.
And it even says "square and stationary earth."

Apple Sky said:

View attachment 372299

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NxNW said:

The topic of this thread is not the validity of crypto as currency, but how the Trump Organization is using the presidency to profit from it.

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bèlla said:

Many believe cryptocurrency is a scam but it’s creating a lot of millionaires. I recommended investing a few years ago more than once. If you chose well you made a profit.

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[Staff Edit]

I don't know if it was intended when the word "cryptocurrency" was coined, but it's not used much as currency, it's held as an investment.

From Chat:

• Payments usage: maybe in the ~20‑30% range of crypto payments (for BTC vs other cryptos) on merchant/checkout systems (based on CoinGate).
• But in terms of all BTC activity including investment/speculation, the payments share is much smaller. If 99% of adoption is speculation (per the analyst), then payments might be <1% of total usage by value or adoption.
• Held (store of value): the large majority of BTC appears to be held rather than used for routine commerce.

Commander in Chief visits troops in Japan

We're wrapping up our live coverage of Trump's Japan visit. Here's what happened:

• Japan and the U.S. agreed to a deal on new-generation nuclear power reactors and rare earths.
• The two governments also released a list of projects in energy, artificial intelligence and critical minerals in which Japanese companies are eyeing investments of up to $400 billion in the U.S.
• Trump said Japan also plans to purchase Ford's burly F-150 pickup truck, a symbol of how far Tokyo is willing to go to win his favour.
• He also praised Japan's efforts to buy more U.S. defence equipment, while Takaichi said his role in securing ceasefires between Cambodia and Thailand, and Israel and Palestinian militants, was an "unprecedented" achievement.
• The two leaders also visited a U.S. naval base near Tokyo.