i sing some.

AV1611VET said:

Good news though:

He converted on his deathbed.

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No Darwin didn't. Darwin also wasn't an atheist.

The best evidence available is that Darwin remained a believer in some kind of God, but took on an agnostic and Deist bent. He explicitly rejected the notion of a personal God and divine revelation, but maintained a troubled Anglican faith up to his death.

There is simply no evidence of a deathbed conversion. Darwin's family have refuted several accounts, most famously the 'Lady Hope' story. That one is so full of holes that even Answers In Gensis says "there are many inconsistencies that make the story untenable".

AV1611VET said:

The only thing that I'm confused about is why it took so long to answer this challenge?

Even well after I gave a strong hint?

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Maybe because your solution would effectively put all the stars within about 6,000 light years, and the sky would be filled with light.

I think the word itself 'social justice comes with so much baggage that its a dangerous philosophy to stand on. It invites ideological culture wars. Its playing the same game as secular politics. It makes Christians and the church one more division among many who are fighting for what is right and how society should be ordered.

This is more about social constructionism than the gospel. It cultivates the idea that we can build within society a social justice utopia that everyone is fighting for. Rather than Gods Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.

I think any social justice for Christians and the church community should be doing what they have always done which is to be there when all others are not. To preach the gospel which is a completely different to any temporal ideology and stick to that even if it is in conflict with the ideas in society about social justice.

It is simply by being living examples of Christ that will speak volumes as to injustice. Thats all. First live the Gospel before trying to remove the speck from societies eye. If this is done there will be no need to get into culture wars over social justice. People will see the example and this will expose the evil and turn them towards God.

That doesn't mean everyone will follow. What I think has to be understood is that underlying the culture wars over social justice is a spiritual battle between the world and Christ. So some will see the Christian worldview as hateful no matter what. Because its not about what is truth and right but how the world is ordered under God or without God.

So buying into the culture wars is a trap if you are not strong in the faith. People can be fooled by lookalike ideas that sound good but are designed to undermine Gods way and Christs truth in the gospel.

Thats why I think the church community should be seperate from how mainstream society sees the social justice issue. The church has always been there in the background mopping up the mess society creates. The Good Samaritans who get involved regardless of the politics.

Ansah said:

I've never been to either a Cursillo or a charismatic prayer meeting with singing. Before coming back to the Church I did attend some protestant rock music services on a very few occasions, and came away from that agreeing with the adage that "Christian rock" generally makes both Christianity and rock music worse...

...I get that everyone's sensibilities might differ

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Presumably now, as a traditional Catholic, you, like me, are a fan of what Pope St. Pius X wrote on church music in Tra le sollecitudini? I feel what he wrote can be applied to all liturgical rites with minor adaptation, and not just the various uses of the Roman Rite. For example, if you substitute Byzantine Chant for Gregorian chant and substitute Bortnianski and Chesnokov for Palestrina, Tallis and Byrd, it applies to the Bulgarian form of the Byzantine Rite. Likewise, if we apply the same principles to Armenian chant and the composers Yekmalian and Komitas, we have a formula for ensuring liturgical tradition in Armenian Catholic and Orthodox churches. And somon, for each liturgical rite.

I have always loved how the Roman Catholic Church not only has a diversity of liturgical rites, but allows priests to obtain bi-ritual faculties. For example, in Southern California one of the priests who serves the Armenian Catholic Church is not ethnically Armenian but rather trained as a priest in the Roman Rite, but then learned enough Classical Armenian to be able to celebrate the Soorp Badarak (the Armenian Catholic Mass) when the Armenian church was unable to find sufficient clergy due to a shortage that existed at the time of Armenian Catholic priests, and he continues to serve that parish at present, as well as serving in Roman Rite parishes. And there are many clergy who have faculties to celebrate both the Byzantine and Roman Rite, for example, which is useful in those parts of Europe where there are many Greek Catholic parishes, for example, in Hungary, Ukraine and the eastern parts of Sicily.

e(X)ecutive

Paul

Jinzhou, China

Always in His Presence said:

Not even Trump

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Oh please! NOW he's in and is finally aware of how hard this is (with his advisors finally briefing him not to offer Ukrainian land!) - he gets this is going to be hard. But please don't try and downplay the "one phone call!" claims he made on the campaign trail as some sort of hyperbole or jest. The facts are not with you.

RDKirk said:

I figure that's how they determined they were sisters. But the difference in hair and eye color?

Unless they were half sisters or cousins. But even then, I'm doubting the population was that diverse.

That deserved further explanation.

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From the study:

"Based on aDNA, it is clear that she had brown or green eyes, therefore it is possible to infer a darker hair colour. The female buried deeper (H2a/2002) was only slightly older at the time of death (35–40 years old) and her body height was estimated at about 146.1 cm. Based on the study of phenotypic features, she was a lighter type, probably blue-eyed and probably fair-haired.

...

The H1 female was heterozygous, so she carries both alleles and a green or hazel iris color can be expected. The CC allele was detected in the skeleton H2, she had light (blue eyes) with high probability [greater than 90%]"

stevevw said:

The bible says all creation is longing to be restored to Gods Kingdom. It seems the Fall in seperating creation and humankind from God is a sort of suffering or a thorn in our side that can only be alleviated by Christ.

I have read about philosophers and even psychologists like Peterson for example talk about the human condition as one of suffering as a default state. That life is a constant battle to overcome that disposition and that sacrifice is the key to achieving something beyond that surrfering. Almost like suffering in sacrifice brings freedom from the disposition of suffering.

This is where I think Christ comes in and became the way out of that suffering disposition caused by the fall. Living in the spirit as opposed to the flesh. Though the flesh is still a part of us until Christs return. It is this duel state we exist in that is in constant battle for our hearts and minds.

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Welcome!

Please be sure to read the Traditional Theology Statement of Purpose.

Vambram said:

illegal immigrants are not legal residents. They should not be counted and included in the Census.

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it appears they are not residents either Non migratory

resident​

1 of 2

adjective​

res·i·dent ˈre-zə-dənt
ˈrez-dənt,

ˈre-zə-ˌdent

Synonyms of resident
1
a
: living in a place for some length of time : residing
b
: serving in a regular or full-time capacity
the resident engineer for a highway department

also : being in residence
1
a
: living in a place for some length of time : residing
b
: serving in a regular or full-time capacity
the resident engineer for a highway department

also : being in residence

2
: present, inherent
3
: not migratory
resident species


resident
2 of 2

noun​

1
: one who resides in a place

ozso said:

I just find it astounding is all.

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.

Sure. Imagination can create astounding images for anyone; a flying pig; a 6 pack of donuts that never runs out; a self tightening screw.....

But reality is a better place to exist.

Strictly speaking, Soccinianusm, also known as Unitarianism, and Christianity, are mutually exclusive. Therefore we can say that there is a 0% prevalence of Soccinianism among the Christian faithful.

Unfortunately there are those who believe Jesus was not God incarnate or even a lesser divinity (the belief of the J/Ws and other neo-Arian heretics) who believe themselves to be Christian, which is a form of spiritual delusion, however, the number of Unitarians in the UK and Unitarian Universalists in the US who identify as Christians has sharply declined in recent years. Only a few Unitarian churches, such as King’s Chapel in Boston, still call themselves Christian (And in the case of King’s Chapel, unlike other former Puritan UUA churches in Boston such as the First Church of Boston, the Arlington Street Church, the Federal Street Church, etc, King’s Chapel has always been welcoming of Trinitarians - it is more of an excessively broad church Anglican church than a dogmatic Unitarian church like the others that converted from Congregationalism and seized control of Harvard University in the 1780s).

OldAbramBrown said:

Relics have had no basis in spirituality for a very long time now.

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That might be true in those iconoclastic churches which destroyed all their relics, but for those of us who still have them, they are a very important part of our spirituality. Many, such as the relics of St. Nicholas of Myra, which were expropriated by the Latins and relocated to Bari, along with several other relics such as those of St. Mark which had been in the possession of the Orthodox, but which are now being returned (the Three Holy Hierarchs, for example, are once more in Constantinople), continue to stream myrhh, which the Orthodox have authenticated is the same myrhh that was streamed by these relics before the Roman Catholics of Bari removed them from the Orthodox church in Myra.

I myself venerate relics and receive myrhh streamed from them and from the Holy Icons known to gush myrhh (mostly icons of Our Glorious Lady Theotokos and Ever Virgin Mary) on every possible occasion.

JSRG said:

You seem to have misunderstood it a little. I didn't post the link--Amos2 did. I then objected to it, noting its lack of evidence offered for its claims, and noting that the author has a strong anti-Christian bias and a history of making exaggerated or erroneous claims in their attacks on Christianity, often without clearly offering sources for their claims. And I noted those problems seem present on the linked page too (the bias is easy to detect in its tone, and as noted it claims as an actual torture device something that historians have said there is essentially no evidence of actually being used as a torture device).

Amos2 then responded, declaring there were a lot of sources on the page, which is what you were responding to, and I assume what you refer to as "the content you posted" (referring to his post). That was just a bunch of stuff from the page he originally linked. The problem is that most of the "sources" identified were not in anything specific in the page, but rather just a list of "Useful References" to the side at one point and a list of "documents" at the end that do not appear to relate to most of the claims being made, and even if they do there is no indication of what is supposed to be supporting what. There were sources given for quotes at least, but there were only a few and that left a lot of things from it asserted but not being backed up.

Yeah, there's some stuff there that's true, but other stuff seems far more dubious or outright wrong, and with a lack of sources for its claims makes it much harder to try to verify things and figure out what stuff is accurate and what stuff is exaggerated or outright wrong. I have difficulty putting trust into claims on a page or website by someone I know has strong bias, I know has made exaggerated claims elsewhere, and those issues can be seen even on the very page itself.

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Thank you for that clarification.

People who say that God will torture sinners in the Lake of Fire fail to understand: sin is its own torture. God is infinitely loving: because his presence would be a torment for those who oppose Him, he will cast them into the outer darkness as a final mercy.

Indeed, in Genesis, the account of our lifespan being reduced to, on average, no more than 120 years was understood by the Early Church Fathers as a blessing from God, so that we would not be forced to live in the mire of sin for century after century.

Many preferred to die to the world immediately, and since martyrdom had ceased after 314 AD and ending one’s own life is forbidden as a form of murder (except when the person is mentally ill), thus many Church Fathers died to the world while remaining alive in the flesh by becoming monastics, starting with St. Anthony the Great and St. Paul the Hermit. In the Orthodox Church, nearly all of our bishops made this decision by becoming monks, with some being ordained as hieromonks (monastic priests) and then promoted to archimandrites (monastic protopresbyters) or the hegumens of monasteries, from which the bishops are chosen. But those who wish to avoid being compelled into serving as bishop can instead take the Great Schema, which is also available to nuns.

But they will then torment themselves, to a large extent, according to St. John Chrysostom, because of the sure knowledge of what they are missing out upon.

What I have said represents the Faith as expressed by the Fathers of the Orthodox Church to the best of my ability - if I have made any error my friends @FenderTL5 @prodromos and others will correct me.

The Liturgist said:

They weren’t so much referenced as commented upon. But that being said, where on the site that JSRG linked you to did you find the content you posted? Please provide the URL that links to the page you cited, so that those of us who are interested can take a look and see the context in which it is featured.

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You seem to have misunderstood it a little. I didn't post the link--Amos2 did. I then objected to it, noting its lack of evidence offered for its claims, and noting that the author has a strong anti-Christian bias and a history of making exaggerated or erroneous claims in their attacks on Christianity, often without clearly offering sources for their claims. And I noted those problems seem present on the linked page too (the bias is easy to detect in its tone, and as noted it claims as an actual torture device something that historians have said there is essentially no evidence of actually being used as a torture device).

Amos2 then responded, declaring there were a lot of sources on the page, which is what you were responding to, and I assume what you refer to as "the content you posted" (referring to his post). That was just a bunch of stuff from the page he originally linked. The problem is that most of the "sources" identified were not in anything specific in the page, but rather just a list of "Useful References" to the side at one point and a list of "documents" at the end that do not appear to relate to most of the claims being made, and even if they do there is no indication of what is supposed to be supporting what. There were sources given for quotes at least, but there were only a few and that left a lot of things from it asserted but not being backed up.

Yeah, there's some stuff there that's true, but other stuff seems far more dubious or outright wrong, and with a lack of sources for its claims makes it much harder to try to verify things and figure out what stuff is accurate and what stuff is exaggerated or outright wrong. I have difficulty putting trust into claims on a page or website by someone I know has strong bias, I know has made exaggerated claims elsewhere, and those issues can be seen even on the very page itself.

ozso said:

They're transients. They move from place to place. They're often asked by the police and property owners to take it elsewhere, so they're used to moving around.

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Where do they get the money for drugs? I don’t know where these people live but we have a lot of beggars at the intersections of our major streets. They can’t be making much money.

(8) THE BIBLICAL BASIS OF PURGATORY

The word "Purgatory" (Latin: "purgatorium") initially appears around 1160 AD), but this concept of postmortem purification has roots in ancient Judaism and the NT. The following 4 texts form a major part of the background for the doctrine of Purgatory:

(1) Catholics refer to 2 Maccabees in their OT for the initial principle that justifies the concept of Purgatory. It was discovered that Jewish freedom fighters had committed idolatry and it was thought that their deaths in battle were a punishment for this sin. The righteous Jewish soldiers believed in praying for the dead. So they sent a sin offering to the Jerusalem Temple and prayed for these dead soldiers "that the sin that had been committed would be wholly blotted out. 12:42, 44)." In this way, they attest the belief that prayer and godly ritual can change the status of dead sinners in the eyes of God.
Now modern Christians don't embrace the Apocrypha as Scripture. But Paul applies this Maccabean principle to the Corinthian practice of proxy baptism for the unrighteous dead. Paul believes that soul retrievals from an interim state (akin to Purgatory) through proxy baptism can be part of the process by which God will ultimately "be all in all:"

"...so that God may be all in all. Otherwise, what will they do who receive baptism in behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised all all, why are they baptized on their behalf (1 Cor 15:28-29)?"


(2) Paul accepts the traditional Jewish view that locates Paradise in the 3rd Heaven (2 Cor 12:2-3). This view raises the question of the nature of the first 2 Heavens. Paradise is the desirable place for the deceased righteous to reside (see e. g. Luke 23:42-43). But in the relevant intertestamental Jewish texts that are the background of this model of the Heavens, the 2nd Heaven is described as a place of suffering akin to Purgatory.

(3) Perhaps the best biblical precedent for the Catholic doctrine of Purgatory emerges from Paul's discussion of the fate of weak Christians who build their lives improperly on the foundation that is Christ. Paul warns that their works will not withstand close divine scrutiny: "If the work is burned up, the builder will suffer loss; the builder will be saved, but only as through fire (1 Cor 3:15)." In early rabbinic literature, the expression "saved so as by fire" is applied to Jews of mediocre spirituality who must spend a year in Gehenna before being promoted to Paradise. Gehenna here seems to be a model for Purgatory.

(4) In a parable Jesus uses the image of a debtor's prison as an allusion to Gehenna: "In anger his Lord handed him over to be tortured until he would pay all his debt (Matthew 18:34)." The implication is that the debt can theoretically be paid to secure release.

WordSword said:

What most are unaware of is that Westcott and Hort were first formers of the creation of a critical text of the New Testament Westcott and Hort text. Their work, published in 1881 as The New Testament in the Original Greek, became a highly influential critical edition of the Greek New Testament.

This was the first translation from the three ancient manuscripts recently discovered (19th century: Vaticanus, Sinaticua and Alexzandrinus.) Their translation from these manuscript copies are what all modern translations are derived from.

I wanted you to know that these two scholars were members of a cult group: B.F. Westcott and F.J.A. Hort were members of a group known as the “Ghostly Gilled,” formed in 1850. This club, also referred to as the “Bogie Club”, focused on investigating paranormal phenomena, including ghosts and supernatural occurrences, as members were “disposed to believe that such things really exist”. Some sources suggest that a previous club organized by Westcott at Cambridge named “Hermes” may have been a precursor to the Ghostly Guild. The Ghostly Guild later evolved into The Society for Psychical Research, a key player in the 19th-century spiritualism movement.”

The two scholars who used Westcott and Hort’s translation were Eberhard Nestle and Kurt Aland (whom you’re probably familiar with). Nestle and Aland’s text is where today’s modern translations come from.

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This is a highly inaccurate and flawed claim - it uses the 'guilty by association' method to frame any translation >= 19th century CE as faulty or suspicious.

First of all - Westcott & Hort's Greek text was not the first critical text - Erasmus' Greek text 'Novum Instrumentum' (1516, 1522, 1527, 1535) also was a critical text given the manuscripts available to him at that time. His text was the basis for the translations of o.a. Martin Luther (in German, 1522), William Tyndale (in English, 1526), Geneva Bible (in English, 1560), King James (in English, 1611) and the Statenvertaling (in Dutch, 1637).

Erasmus' text already used the critical method - trying to carefully distinguish what was most likely the original text - recognising modifications sometimes were made throughout history. Erasmus famously argued against the Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7-8) as non-authentic, something also confirmed by analysis of the writings of St Augustine of Hippo.

Erasmus remained a Roman Catholic all his life - and disagreed with Martin Luther on the Reformation. He also was a humanist.

Secondly, the many manuscript discoveries after Erasmus' time make his Greek NT text less accurate than what is now reconstructable using all that new evidence/witness material (the Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus are only two yet important elements of that evidence). Having those many more recently discovered manuscripts available simple means one has to reconstruct a new critical text; otherwise one is deluding oneself into thinking that Erasmus' text was infallible (i.e. by divine guidance). And if one does so by definition the 'Sola Scriptura' doctrine has been violated anyway.

The current Nestle-Aland critical Greek Text of the NT is not a reprint of the Westcott & Hort text (it uses many other manuscript witnesses unavailable to Westcott & Hort) but it has a strong commonality: it leans towards the Alexandrian text-tradition, but it differs with the Westcott & Hort text in hundreds of specific readings.

If Westcott and Hort had not existed as scholars in the 19th century AD other Textual Criticism scholars in our era would have arrived at the roughly the same result - and this remains on ongoing process of course. E.g. suppose the original Hebrew/Aramaic text for the Gospel of Matthew would be found, this would no doubt influence new translations.

boughtwithaprice said:

Where is your consistency in scriptural translation? SDA love to say that Jesus denied the blessedness of His own mother by translating Luke 11:28 as “on the contrary” instead of the correct translation of “yes, rather”
Mary is the promised enemy of Satan Gen 3:15.

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Interesting. Not only is such a translation as they suggest wrong and contrary to the clear meaning of the Greek but also contradicts other verses in the same Gospel, and in the Gospels of St. Matthew and of St. John, and prophetic verses about the Theotokos in the Old Testament.

It is also obviously Nestorian and antidicomarian (one of the two Mariological errors enumerated by St. Epiphanios, along with the opposite error of Collyridianism - the Collyridians worshipped our lady, whereas the antidicomarians refused her veneration and denied her perpetual virginity). Both extremes are obviously wrong.

Guojing said:

Covid-19 did more, than any other churches, in teaching people that Psalms 91 is not meant to be applied to the Body of Christ today.

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Not true.

In Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches no one was infected with Covid as a result of partaking of the Eucharist despite the use of a shared spoon in the Eastern and Coptic rite liturgies.