AV1611VET said:

Which adds to my suspicion.

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If it lacked detail it would add to your suspicion.
If it had an average amount of detail it would add to your suspicion.
If it was published by a single author it would add to your suspicion.
If it was published by a many authors it would add to your suspicion.
If it was published in an American journal it would add to your suspicion.
If it was published in a European jouranal it would add to your suspicion.
If it was reported on the news networks it would add to your suspicion.
If this week Thursday was to follow Wednesday it would add to your suspicion.

I find that suspicious.

stevevw said:

Thats because I don't know. Thats the commonsense answer. The evidence is in the difference between what the existing tools in the records are capable of doing and the signatures in the rocks which are completely different and show how its impossible for those tools to achieve those signatures.

Thats all. I don't know how this was achieved. It would require the same analogy that shows the existing tools don't fit. That is looking at the signatures and working out what sort of tools or tech it would take to produce such signatures.

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It is not a common sense answer to state if you don’t know what technologies were used leads to the conclusion the technologies discovered through archaeology were insufficient. In fact it is a combination of the argument from ignorance fallacy and a false dilemma.
Furthermore you are in total denial in claiming these discovered technologies do not produce the characteristic signatures.

stevevw said:

Yes but they seem insuffient at least for some works. For example the image I showed of a clean, sharp and perfectly flat cut around 4 feet x 4 feet. Some are twice as big. I don;t think the small saws in the records nor any hand held saw could produce such a machined finished.

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This is an example of your denial work. How many times in the other thread was it explained to you the Egyptians used abrasion cutting with copper saws producing striation marks on the cut surfaces. From the striation marks one could tell from the coarseness of the abrasive if sand or emery for example were used.

stevevw said:

I know I have been down this path before going over all the experiments trying to replicate the same. Like I said I just don't know as there sugnatures and tools don't seem to match. I mean I know they were used for some things. But it seems stranged that they could bash into shape such fine works and detail.

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Here is another example of your denial. The unfinished obelisk at Aswan clearly shows depression marks due to the use of pounding stones which was also discussed in the other thread.

stevevw said:

Well if we stop and look at all the greatest works such as the mega pyramids and all the works that go with this such as the precision pottery, statues and boxes as well as the some massive obelisks and statues weighting near 1,000 tons.

We can see a short period of superior works more or less in the earliest dynasties that seems to disappear and we followed by less quality works. Its usually the other ay around. So its nothing to sneeze at. Its still an amazing achievement where an ancient people have achieved greater heights than those who came later.

I think I remember someone saying that the great pyramid was the tallest building in the world up until the 19th century when the Eiffel Tower was built.

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Denial mode again, did I not make clear to you the decline in pyramid building along with art in general was due to decentralization of the pharaoh’s power eventually leading to civil wars amongst the nomarchs.

stevevw said:

Its not just the manpoer though. It is the signatures in the rocks that tell us that this does not match 1 or 1,000 men cutting the stone. It is a completely different signature to a small or even large hand saw that grinds and chips away. Rather cut cut like a machine. Or cuts through rock like its soft.

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Repeating myself yet again the signatures do match with the equipment the Egyptians actually used.

stevevw said:

In some ways this manpower is the advanced achievement. If it is just simple tools and manpower then that sort of makes it even more incredible. But I also think there is evidence for something other than manpower and simple tools. Maybe a tech we don't understand.

For example there is speculation that the ancient peoples of the Amazon concoted some mixture to soften rocks. Perhaps an ancient science that toyed with natural elements. We know of the natural remedies the South Americans and even in my country with Aboriginals going back 30,000 years.

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Are you actually starting to concede the ancients may have been a lot smarter you give them credit for?

stevevw said:

It seemed to be much the same in Moses time where even the proto Isrealites were enslaved to build. Pharoahs would bring captives back to work the mines and build.

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I was discussing the decline in pyramid building try sticking to the subject. If Moses did exist it was sometime in Egypt’s later 18th dynasty by which time the construction of pyramids had ceased after the first pharaoh of the dynasty.

stevevw said:

Its good you know this. Are you an Aussie lol. Come to think of it I remember the blow out and people complaining. We had tough unions back then. Especially the builders and dockers which was around the harbor where the Opera house was.

Ok poor example. But there are others where it has taken years to build even with machines. I recall a big Russian status that took ages even with modern trucks and tracks. Another was a big hole they had to fill which was around the size of the Giza pyaramid and it 1,000s of truckloads over 10 years.

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A false equivalence fallacy.

stevevw said:

How many tombs does one Pharoah need lol. Thats a bit greedy.

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Did I not make it perfectly clear that Snefru’s first pyramid was unstable and eventually collapsed, the second Bent pyramid underwent modifications to avoid possible collapse, the third pyramid is the first true pyramid shape more likely to survive the ravages of time.
You would think a pharaoh’s preferences would be interred in a permanent structure.

stevevw said:

This shows how superior the earliest stuff was that they would rather tear it down than honor it. I think from memory the Bent pyramid and earier works were built on sand rather than bedrock and this caused them to collapse at the edges.

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Rubbish they it tore it down because it was an available source of readymade material.

stevevw said:

But the true works are under the ground. Even the earliest such as the Step pyramid has miles of tunnels and a giant box. Which points to the inner part being made before the outer as the box blocks are too bog to fit through the tunnels and pyramid entrance.

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What box blocks are you referring to? The burial chamber was sealed with granite plugs.
Of course the inner part was completed before the Step pyramid. What you don’t seem to realise is the pharaoh Djoser was interred before the Step pyramid was completed as evidenced by the same limestone masonry used for the pyramid to fill the tunnels leading to the burial chamber.

stevevw said:

Not just art but I think religion, the gods. Much of these works all over the world are made for the gods. Or as the cultures themselves say, "made by the gods".

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It also has nothing to do with the Egyptians using superior technology which you cannot explain.

stevevw said:

Thats sort of my point. That it seems the greatest and most amazing works come very early and are heavily linked to religious belief that is motivating this great expression.

You could imagine that all over the world cultures had reached this pinnacle point where they had these great monoliths and other precision and fine works which have not been surpassed. Later peoples have honored these works but never being able to replicate them. So they worship them like they are from the gods.

Ok. I would have thought they could have made more of an effort for their gods. Take some tips from the ancestors. Instead of fighting all the time. That was their downfall.

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Which has nothing to do with the pharaoh becoming a puppet ruler and the nomarchs taking control. Try Googling “First Intermediate Period Egypt” for the real history backed by archaeology.

stevevw said:

How does not showing how they were made deminish that the signatures in the rocks don't match the claimed tools either. It does not follow that because we cannot work out how they did it that they did not do it with something other than the tools on record. Its a matter of logic and deduction.

If the tools on record don't match then they are not the tools. If we cannot find the tools that may have produced the signatures that doesn't mean we have to then say ok it was the tools on record. It just means we don't know yet.

We know what could make such signatures but obviously that would not be available. So there must have been some other way we have not worked out yet.

We know new ideas have come forward like the hydro lift theory for getting blocks to the upper levels of the pyramids. So it may be some other ingenious idea we have yet to discover.

The same logic can be applied to the current tools on record. There are missing tools because the current tools on record cannot account for the signatures. So therefore until the missing tools in the mainstream records are produced this also brings mainstream accounts into question.

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The main point of my post is to show you haven’t employed logic, as personal incredulity, denial mode, argument from ignorance, false dilemmas and making false statements do not make sound logic.
A logical step which also highlights the folly of your arguments is to ask the converse question if the discovered implements were useless then what were they employed for?

Quasiblogo said:

Your help, please, concerning which English translations most closely fit the Koine Greek text of 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Some examples of what I'm reading online; what I bold are the words which I ponder:

Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power (NKJV)

and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power (ESV)

I started to question which "direction to go" when reading this verse in the ESV. I was about to make a blog post citing the importance of personal zeal ("resolve") mixed with faith. However, when I looked at the NKJV, that "resolve" is instead rendered as a "pleasure" proceeding from God.

I looked at the Interlinear, but I'm unsure how to parse the meaning/intent.

My conviction, I should say, is that if the NKJV is the best way to translate, then it stands to reason that since we are being conformed to the Image of Messiah Jesus, His pleasure that He takes in goodness stemming from holiness becomes, and should continue to be, ours.

Postscript: a little after posted the above, I was reminded of how the NKJV and the ESV come to clash again over good/goodness/the Lord's pleasure, when it comes to Luke 2:14 (bold texts are mine):

“Glory to God in the highest,
And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!” (NKJV)

“Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased! (ESV)

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The word eudokia combines the Greek prefix eu meaning "good" and dokeo meaning "to seem". The word indicates a good or favorable opinion. In reference to God it is God's favorable disposition toward us out of His grace and love; and God's good purposes toward us and His work of redemption and working to bring things about toward His desired ends in Christ.

That is why in the angelic herald concerning Christ's birth there is peace and eudokia toward all men; because the Messiah is born there is Gospel--Good News--to the world. A proclamation of God's favor toward mankind, not on the basis of mankind's own moral ability but rather out of God's own love toward us, which is made evident in the giving of His Son, in the giving of Christ to us. So the birth of the Messiah is Good News, of peace, of God's own goodwill toward us.

That is why it is God's goodwill, His own gracious disposition toward us--His will and eudokia--that He should have chosen us, loved us, called us, and to bring all things toward His own intended purposes through Jesus (c.f. Ephesians 1:9 and surrounding context).

So eudokia can mean pleasure, in the sense of being favorable toward, or taking delight in; that it is God's own good intention, His own good will, His own good purpose and designs toward us and all creation, etc.

-CryptoLutheran

Chesterton said:

Looking back, I would have benefited from taking it. It's not easy keeping a home.

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Yes, but I bet you still have the bench you made in shop.

RileyG said:

Not to mention, many radical Muslims react very strongly if they are offended. It has happened countless times. I’m referring to a very small minority of Muslims. A vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, even if their ideology is not.

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A vast majority of police officers are honest and respectful.

A vast majority of Southern whites during Jim Crow didn't lynch black people.

It's still a "they" problem when that "vast majority" turns its head from the actions of that "small minority."

essentialsaltes said:

Why are all these leading Democrats suddenly facing mortgage fraud charges? Guess who’s behind it​

[Adam Schiff, Letitia James, and now Lisa Cook.]

What gets me, and should get you, is the flimsiness of these accusations despite how loudly they’ve been bruited about on the MAGA right as though they’re signals of profound moral turpitude on the part of the targets, and how they all originated in the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which is led by Trump acolyte and sycophant William J. Pulte, in private life a big homebuilder.

The important question, in the view of Adam Levitin of Georgetown Law, is who is driving these investigations and levying these accusations, and whether they reflect an “enemies list” Pulte has compiled on Donald Trump’s behalf. I asked the FHFA to respond to Levitin’s questions, but received no response.

...none of the public accusations from the FHFA specify what, if any, financial advantages were received by the targets.

And it’s unlikely that they’re the result of random audits of FHFA loans, as Levitin observed in relation to the Cook case.

“No one ever goes back and examines loan applications on performing loans for occupancy fraud; that would entail expenses for no benefit,” he wrote. “Instead, the only way anyone would have noticed a problem with Cook’s loan application is that Pulte, as head of FHFA, directed Fannie or Freddie to pull her application. That is unheard of.”

[In Schiff's case, we have an FHFA memo that says as much. The order came from one of the IGs Trump installed after firing most of them.]

The Fannie Mae memo says that the FHFA inspector general demanded “the loan file and any related investigative or quality control documentation, as well as all other loans associated with...Adam B. Schiff.”

The allegations against Schiff relate to his ownership of two homes, one in Burbank and the second in the Washington, D.C., area. But his dual ownership obviously was known to his mortgage lenders, and he has said that he took the homeowner’s property tax exemption only on the Burbank property.

[For James] In all but one of several documents, she stated that the niece would live in the house; according to her lawyer, on one form she said she’d be the occupant. But the bank could hardly have been misled, given the other documents. ... One form filed in 2001 regarding a Brooklyn brownstone bought for her family listed the property as having five units, but all the other pertinent forms stated correctly that it was four units. ... And in the 1983 purchase of house in Queens, New York, James’ father identified her as his spouse, not his daughter, on one form among others that identified her correctly.

Back in 2014, David H. Stevens, a former federal housing official then serving as CEO of the Mortgage Bankers Assn., told the Washington Post that the paper file for a standard mortgage had ballooned to 200-500 pages. “The likelihood of a minor defect is almost 100 percent,” he said. That reduces the significance of the errors Pulte claims to have found nearly to the vanishing point, especially given the paucity of evidence that Schiff, James or Cook got a financial benefit from any of them.

... the law is not concerned with insignificant trifles. In the Trump case, however, [the judge] declared that Trump and his fellow defendants saved tens of millions of dollars. “The frauds found here,” he wrote, “leap off the page and shock the conscience.”

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Kind of like both Comey and McCabe being audited, it's just a coincidence.

Tropical Wilds said:

It’s not that we are worried about negative connotations and political correctness… It’s that when something becomes a thing used by racists to be racists, we don’t want to be lumped in with the racists.

We harken back to the time where doing things that racists did was entirely undesirable.

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Bradskii said:

If I was in a group of men marching through the city waving Australian flags then unless there's an obvious reason for it (we're heading to the SCG to watch Australia beat England in the cricket), then people would assume this was some kind of march against immigration. Again, it's context.

I've got a keffiyeh in my wardrobe. I bought it years ago in a market in Morocco. I wore it recently on a march supporting Palestine and it was obvious why it was being worn. But wearing it on a daily basis locally where there are a lot of synagogues might be seen as being anti-Semitic. Context is all.

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@Tropical Wilds' statement removes it from context-dependence.

I thought this would be helpful for those who do not believe evolution is all it is cracked up to be - there are alot of missing parts.

Login to view embedded media

Daniel Carlton said:

Is this not a problem for certain churches who claim to be following apostolic teaching?

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I've found that the accusation of idolatry is usually dircted at those whose traditions include icons or statuary. Personally, I've never met anyone who I reckoned worshipped either a picture or a statue. "oh, them Catrholics worship that crucifix." No, not unless they're suffering from a mental afflicton. "those Orthodox are praying to that icon." No, the icon is just a pictture, and no one expects it to answer back, leave the pic to get a drink of water, or hum "Jerusalem".

It's easy to play the "Those people worship them images " game when it makes you feel superior somehow, but I've never known the charge to be true.

zoidar said:

I thought what I held was close to Arminianism, maybe provisionism then? Anyhow I in no way believe you have to work for salvation. You say I believe we have to make ourselves worthy to be saved. I believe nothing like that. I believe we need to acknowledge and confess we are totally unworthy of salvation to be saved. God convicts, we confess our unworthiness, our need of His mercy, then God gives us His Spirit, saves us. Isn't that the teaching of classical Arminianism?

Maybe it's true God works in our heart long before we are saved, but we have still not received His Spirit, been born again until we repent, confess being a sinner unworty of salvation.

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Those that you listed are fruits of the Spirit. We cannot confess without being born again. Paul is clear in Romans that people who are dead in their sins cannot seek Christ. The Bible is one big picture of God pursuing us. He writes his law on our hearts. He removes our heart of stone and gives us a heart of flesh. Ezekiel 11:19 The heart of stone is not capable of repenting or confessing. Repenting is a response to being given a new heart. Repenting means agreeing with God that we are sinners and turn from our sins.

Dale said:

You say that the Marriage Feast of the Lamb is what matters. It seems to me that the Marriage Feast is only one of several ways that we are told of the saved entering Paradise, but we’ll take a look at it. Consider this passage.


Mt. 22:1Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying:
Mt. 22:2“The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a
wedding banquet for his son.
Mt. 22:3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the
banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
Mt. 22:4“Then he sent some more servants and said, `Tell those who
have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen
and fattened cattle have been slaughtered, and everything is
ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
Mt. 22:5“But they paid no attention and went off — one to his field,
another to his business.
Mt. 22:6The rest seized his servants, ill-treated them and killed them.
Mt. 22:7The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those
murderers and burned their city.
Mt. 22:8“Then he said to his servants, `The wedding banquet is ready,
but those I invited did not deserve to come.
Mt. 22:9Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you
find.’
Mt. 22:10So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the
people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding
hall was filled with guests.
Mt. 22:11“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a
man there who was not wearing wedding clothes.
Mt. 22:12`Friend,’ he asked, `how did you get in here without wedding
clothes?’ The man was speechless.
Mt. 22:13“Then the king told the attendants, `Tie him hand and foot,
and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be
weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
Mt. 22:14“For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
Matthew 22:1-14 NIV

The King represents God the Father, and the Prince, His son, can only be Jesus Christ. The servants of the King are the Apostles, Disciples and later evangelists who bring God’s word to the world. The slaugtering of the oxen and cattle in verse 22:4 are are slightly veiled reference to the Crucifixion of Christ. The Crucifixion has already happened when the Apostles are sent out with God’s word. Verses 6 and 7 tell of God’s messengers being rejected, persecuted, and even killed. God will bring destruction on those who persecute His messengers. In verses 10-12, we are told of the man who is improperly dressed and is thrown “into the darkness.” Here Jesus warns us about hypocrisy. Those who join God’s Kingdom must do so whole-heartedly.

This parable tells us that some who are brought into the King’s great banquet were not thought to be good people before they listen to God’s servants.

There is no promise here that those who respond to God’s invitation will be free from persecution before they get to the wedding banquet. There is the promise of heaven in this passage but there is no promise that God will snatch Christians off the earth before the Second Coming.

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The Parable of the Banquet always seemed pretty straight forward. Remember Jesus said to the Pharisees and teacher of the Law, "The prostitutes and tax collectors are entering the kingdom ahead of you"? That's what the Parable is about. The invitation is sent out, but the ones to whom received the invitation--e.g. the Pharisees, scribes, the chief priests--refused. So then the invitation is sent to the street corners, to the Gentiles, to the prostitutes, the sinners, the tax collectors, etc.

The kingdom of God, Jesus says, is like this Wedding Feast. This isn't about the end of the world, it's about the kingdom of God which has come through the Person and Work of Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

MehGuy said:

I just want to be clear. Is earthly love the only kind of love that can be felt by many Christians?

I have heard this term 'earthly love' in Christian circles before. Never gave the term much thought.

Are there any books or other resources that delve into the topic? I have always felt alone pondering this, besides finding a few others with similar thoughts online.

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I wish I could answer your questions. I'm not sure what others may mean by "Earthly Love", I was just saying what I meant by it, in my previous post. Like you, I have also been unclear what people may mean by "love", "agape love", "brotherly love", etc. I feel different about my wife and my dog (usually ) but I "love" them both. I have fallen in "love" with strangers (to be honest pretty women) just looking at them. I love my parents, even though they are no longer living and I love almost every animal I meet. In my post I meant the type of love that is just a positive feeling towards people and a sincere desire to want the best for them. It also includes a feeling of appreciation for everything around me and a felling of connectiveness.
I know this all sounds touchy/feely, but I think these are emotions we all feel at times.

Nithavela said:

From patriotic to racist – can the England flag ever be reclaimed?

A group raising money to get every lamp post in their village adorned with the ‘beautiful’ St George’s flag has been met with backlash. Helen Coffey asks whether the far right’s commandeering of our national symbol means it’s forever tainted

www.independent.co.uk

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Thank you for the link. I appreciate it.

Peace

RileyG said:

What? I’m sure I’ve seen countless images of Jesus with the English flag and no one ever complained.

(I’m aware the English flag is NOT Union Jack)

I need to be enlightened.

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RandyPNW said:

I think it was Hank Hanegraaff's book, "Christianity in Crisis," that pointed out how Kenneth Hagin, a father of the Faith movement, built his beliefs on a time when hypnosis and mind science was prevalent. This Faith and Prosperity message doesn't seem to be biblically-based, even though it draws upon biblical statements.

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Hagin largely took his message from EW Kenyon, Kenyon basically took 19th century New Thought and repackaged it in a Christian veneer.

There is a direct link between New Thought and Word of Faith through Kenyon and Hagin. WoF proponents will deny this, but it's actually pretty blatant.

This is why if you've ever noticed that WoF stuff sounds suspiciously similar to New Age stuff, it's not purely coincidence. Both WoF and New Age share a common ancestor. There is no substantial difference between "anointed prayer cloths" and "essential oil manifestation crystals" or whatever.

-CryptoLutheran

Clare73 said:

They violated the law.

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We’re supposed to wait until a person is indicted, tried and convicted before passing such judgment, (or so I have been told).

ozso said:

There's also:

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error. Romans 1:27

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Let's dig in that Romans a little bit more, because Paul mentions men of God that knew the scriptures, but failed to revere the ONLY REVEREND meaning REV. JESUS, the Lord gave them up because of unbelief and allowed them to commit vile acts such as lying with the same sex. Let’s take a look:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. (Romans 1:18-21)

Note what the verse says, “Who hold the truth in unrighteousness.” Here we see these men knew the truth but “they glorified him not as God, neither were they thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart were darkened.” They professed themselves to be wise but became fools. Let’s skip down to the 24th verse.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; (Romans 1:24-28)

Note what’s being said, “God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts to dishonor their own bodies between themselves. Even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature, men with men working that which is unseemly…” God placed men and women on this earth to be fruitful and to multiply. This isn’t a genetic thing, which suits the taste of the general public. These individuals that call themselves homosexuals simply have unbridled sexual desire that came out of their own imaginations, they were not born that way. Therefore, we have a dreaded plague among us that’s not only devastating the gay community; it’s also spilling over into heterosexual assemblage as indicated by the AIDS crisis that has been mounting in the world.

Since the first AIDS cases were reported in 1981 through mid-1998, more than 665,000 AIDS cases and more than 400,000 deaths have been reported in the United States alone. This is only the tip of the iceberg of HIV infection. It is estimated that nearly 1 million Americans had been infected through the late 1990s but had not yet developed clinical symptoms. AIDS has spread around the world. In 1997 the United Nations announced that it had underestimated the spread of the disease and revised the worldwide estimate of people living with the virus from over 22 million in 1996 to over 30 million in 1997. More than 20 million of these people are in sub-Saharan Africa; 6 million are in Southeast Asia. The AIDS epidemic, which started in the 1980s, has devastated the gay community. (Quote from Grolier multimedia encyclopedia.)

The acceptance of homosexuality is also being spearheaded by today’s modern church.

“….Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever.” Many leaders of today’s churches have “changed the truth of God into a lie” and have led their congregation in accepting homosexuality as an acceptable practice. Those so-called men and women that announce themselves as ministers of God, and say this behavior has their approval, will have their day in the lake of fire. The occupation of a minister of God is to be a watchman that warns the masses of the wrath to come because of sin. One of the most prevalent lies told by these ministers of Satan is, “come to the Lord as you are.” The Bible is clear on how an individual comes to stand before the Most High God

Nithavela said:

And yet the left now acts like the english flag is forever claimed and tainted by racism and can no longer be used in any positive context.

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Well, you may know someone English who thinks that. Personally I think it's an idiotic position. The flag means what you want it to mean. Support for your team or a racist comment about immigration.

I keep saying this, but context is all.

Glory to God!

Niels said:

In light of the fact that homosexuals are often mistreated, I can't help but wonder if early commands against it have more to do with protecting them from said mistreatment. Shielding them from harm. Much suffering might be avoided by remaining celibate or acting straight. On the other hand, there are Christians who seemingly go out of their way to make LGBTQ+ people suffer, which makes it look like Christians are part of the problem. They mostly seem like hypocrites to me because Jesus said we should love or neighbors as we love ourselves. Gay people are counted among our neighbors. At the very least, we could mind our own business.

That said, I don't usually consider it any of my business. I don't experience same sex attraction myself, but I also don't like it when people are harassed or bullied. That part bothers me quite a bit. Especially, when done in the name of Jesus, who I'm reasonably confident would not partake in the bullying.

Last I checked, Christianity isn't a religion of public stonings or other such things. That ended with Christ. We are not under Levitical law. It's about the individual's personal relationship with God. If somebody reads God's word and feels convicted by the holy spirit that being gay is wrong, the change comes from within. A place that they must arrive at of their own free will for it to be meaningful.

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Take a look at this verse in the book of James. But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. (James 1:14-15)

Homosexuality is not an abnormality; it is a result of an individual’s own sexual desires. Once this takes place, what happens? Note what the verse says, “Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.” This death is the second death, which is the Lake of Fire.

We already incarcerate more people than most civilized countries. Can't we just do a hefty fine rather than taxpayers paying to keep them in the Graybar Hotel for a year? Why has our answer to everything become, "lock them up?"

Fascinating!

Tropical Wilds said:

Thats absurd to even claim and you know it. Flaming another religion by seeking out victimhood is bad enough, but to flat out lie is a bit much.

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By the way, I am glad to hear that you find the UK's policies on free speech to be absurd. I agree.