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ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 2:00 PM

Jamdoc said:
So, just led to Matthew today, and I'm reading and something stood out in the sermon of the Mount

Matthew 5

right so this part we all know, to give context

Heaven and Earth do pass away, and a New Earth comes.. meaning the laws can pass away then, and be removed, or replaced.

This word "till" does not necessitate a change after the condition.

"Until my father passed away, he was a very loving man" does not mean my dad stopped being a loving person after he died--surely if he is with the Lord in heaven then he is even more loving than he was while down here on earth.

The Greek word we translate has the same ambiguity. So when we read that Joseph did not "know" Mary till Jesus was born does not mean they did anything after Jesus was born, it only means that while pregnant with Jesus she and Joseph didn't do anything.

So "till heaven and earth pass away" does not mean "after these things, then the Law will be abolished"--it means the Law remains as long as heaven and earth are here--what happens after is not said one way or the other.

To get our answer to that requires we look elsewhere or seek answers in another context.

-CryptoLutheran

RileyG · Tuesday at 2:00 PM

ViaCrucis said:
Jesus descended "ad inferos", as the Apostle's Creed puts it. That is "to the lower regions" or "netherworld" i.e. to the place of the dead: She'ol/Hades.

We usually translate this into English as "descended into hell", because "hell" is a word that tends to be a catchall for several biblical concepts.

Hell is used to refer to She'ol/Hades, i.e. the place of the dead.
Hell is used to refer to Gehenna, the experience of suffering which the wicked dead undergo.
And we often use "Hell" to describe the lake of fire in St. John's Apocalypse.

So "Hell" does a lot of heavy lifting, and requires unpacking.

In the 2nd Temple Period of Judaism there was this idea that the righteous would experience a foretaste of future glory (the resurrection and Olam Ha'ba or Age to Come); this was often imagined as the Garden of Eden (Gan-Eden), that's what "Paradise" refers to. Our word "paradise" is taken from the Greek paradeisos, itself a borrowing of a Persian word paradaeza, "an enclosed garden". The Persian word literally referred to a walled off garden, or what we'd call a park. This word was borrowed into Greek and in a Jewish context was used to mean the Garden of Eden. In 2nd Temple period literature there was an idea that since the Garden of Eden had been lost and closed off from humanity after Adam and Eve's expulsion, that it was no longer here on earth, but had been taken up by God. In apocalyptic literature of the time, such as the apocalypse of Enoch the Garden of Eden is described as existing in "the third heaven". We have to remember that in the ancient near east there were numerous "heavens" referring to the skies, that which is above the earth. The standard was seven heavens with the seventh being the greatest and highest "the heavens of heavens" as the divine throne room--hence Solomon says "The heavens cannot contain You, not even the heavens of heavens". Though in the Enochian texts, perhaps through Hellenistic influence, describes ten rather than seven. Regardless, the idea is that the Garden of Eden or Paradise exists in the heavens, beyond mortal reach, but is a place of rest for the righteous. This is also why St. Paul locates Paradise in the third heaven.

Yet Jesus also describes the place of rest for the righteous as "Abraham's Bosom", that is, the righteous are with Abraham (and all the Patriarchs). And in Jesus' parable of Lazarus and Dives He describes the place of the righteous dead and the place of the wicked dead as separated by an impossible to cross gulf. This idea therefore grounds the place of the righteous dead as a kind of "portion" of She'ol--the universal grave.

When we confess that Jesus descended "into hell" we are not talking about Jesus "going to the place where the wicked suffer", it's about Jesus entering the realm of death and the dead. And it is to proclaim victory against the cosmic powers of darkness, i.e. death and the devil who wields the power of death. St. Peter describes the Lord as going to the prison where the spirits of the dead who fell were, or to where the fallen angels were kept in chains--Jesus preaches--proclaims His victory over all the cosmic powers of darkness. His death is not His defeat, but the means by which He actually destroys and defeats the power of death--that by His resurrection He lifts up that which has been held in the bondage of death (human beings specifically, but ultimately all of creation) thereby defeating and destroying that power and signaling the ultimate doom for the ancient adversary of God--the devil.

So Christ's descent is an invasion--Christ invades death robbing death of its power, unshackling the chains, freeing the captives, setting liberty to the prisoners i.e. to all men.

That is the descent into "hell"; that is why Hell is harrowed--conquered, defeated, and robbed of its vice-grip of death over creation.

Christ is risen from the dead
Trampling down death by death
And to those in the tombs
Bestowing life

-CryptoLutheran

Very well written and a great explanation!

Thank you!

I’m amazed by your immense knowledge!

God bless you!

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 1:55 PM

Jesus descended "ad inferos", as the Apostle's Creed puts it. That is "to the lower regions" or "netherworld" i.e. to the place of the dead: She'ol/Hades.

We usually translate this into English as "descended into hell", because "hell" is a word that tends to be a catchall for several biblical concepts.

Hell is used to refer to She'ol/Hades, i.e. the place of the dead.
Hell is used to refer to Gehenna, the experience of suffering which the wicked dead undergo.
And we often use "Hell" to describe the lake of fire in St. John's Apocalypse.

So "Hell" does a lot of heavy lifting, and requires unpacking.

In the 2nd Temple Period of Judaism there was this idea that the righteous would experience a foretaste of future glory (the resurrection and Olam Ha'ba or Age to Come); this was often imagined as the Garden of Eden (Gan-Eden), that's what "Paradise" refers to. Our word "paradise" is taken from the Greek paradeisos, itself a borrowing of a Persian word paradaeza, "an enclosed garden". The Persian word literally referred to a walled off garden, or what we'd call a park. This word was borrowed into Greek and in a Jewish context was used to mean the Garden of Eden. In 2nd Temple period literature there was an idea that since the Garden of Eden had been lost and closed off from humanity after Adam and Eve's expulsion, that it was no longer here on earth, but had been taken up by God. In apocalyptic literature of the time, such as the apocalypse of Enoch the Garden of Eden is described as existing in "the third heaven". We have to remember that in the ancient near east there were numerous "heavens" referring to the skies, that which is above the earth. The standard was seven heavens with the seventh being the greatest and highest "the heavens of heavens" as the divine throne room--hence Solomon says "The heavens cannot contain You, not even the heavens of heavens". Though in the Enochian texts, perhaps through Hellenistic influence, describes ten rather than seven. Regardless, the idea is that the Garden of Eden or Paradise exists in the heavens, beyond mortal reach, but is a place of rest for the righteous. This is also why St. Paul locates Paradise in the third heaven.

Yet Jesus also describes the place of rest for the righteous as "Abraham's Bosom", that is, the righteous are with Abraham (and all the Patriarchs). And in Jesus' parable of Lazarus and Dives He describes the place of the righteous dead and the place of the wicked dead as separated by an impossible to cross gulf. This idea therefore grounds the place of the righteous dead as a kind of "portion" of She'ol--the universal grave.

When we confess that Jesus descended "into hell" we are not talking about Jesus "going to the place where the wicked suffer", it's about Jesus entering the realm of death and the dead. And it is to proclaim victory against the cosmic powers of darkness, i.e. death and the devil who wields the power of death. St. Peter describes the Lord as going to the prison where the spirits of the dead who fell were, or to where the fallen angels were kept in chains--Jesus preaches--proclaims His victory over all the cosmic powers of darkness. His death is not His defeat, but the means by which He actually destroys and defeats the power of death--that by His resurrection He lifts up that which has been held in the bondage of death (human beings specifically, but ultimately all of creation) thereby defeating and destroying that power and signaling the ultimate doom for the ancient adversary of God--the devil.

So Christ's descent is an invasion--Christ invades death robbing death of its power, unshackling the chains, freeing the captives, setting liberty to the prisoners i.e. to all men.

That is the descent into "hell"; that is why Hell is harrowed--conquered, defeated, and robbed of its vice-grip of death over creation.

Christ is risen from the dead
Trampling down death by death
And to those in the tombs
Bestowing life

-CryptoLutheran

RileyG · Tuesday at 1:54 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
What you are saying is true, however the changes go completely against everything that makes Cracker Barrel different from any other restaurant. It completely destroys its identity. Even the family that founded the company are appalled.

This. I understand this completely.

On the other hand, change is inevitable.

If they lose business, it’s their own fault.

RileyG · Tuesday at 1:53 PM

O my crucified God, behold me at Your feet; do not cast me out, now that I appear before You as a sinner. I have offended You exceedingly in the past, my Jesus, but it shall be so no longer.

Before You, O Lord, I place all my sins; I have now considered Your own sufferings and see how great is the worth of that Precious Blood that flows from Your veins.

O my God, at this hour close Your eyes to my want of merit, and since You have been pleased to die for my sins, grant me forgiveness for them all, that I may no longer feel the burden of my sins, for this burden, Dear Jesus, oppresses me beyond measure.

Assist me, my Jesus, for I desire to become good whatsoever it may cost; take away, destroy, utterly root out all that You find in me contrary to Your holy will. At the same time, I pray You, Lord Jesus, to enlighten me that I may be able to walk in Your holy light. Amen.

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 1:52 PM

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
The adjectives used to describe President Trump are not justified. In my previous post, I stated that the President has the authority to replace military leadership; this is a part of the democratic process rather than an authoritarian act. However, you have associated this action with authoritarianism.

Replacing the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics is not fascist or dictatorial, but is a power granted to the President of the United States. While I agree that it may be ill-advised, such actions do not justify labeling him as authoritarian.

Context matters. The President is, indeed, granted the authority to replace military leadership under the Constitution. But replacing a huge swath of the leadership for no clear reason other than that they don't align with his personal or political beliefs is authoritarian.

Similarly, there's no legal issue with the President replacing the head of the BLS. But replacing the head of the BLS because she issued a report that made the President look bad is authoritarian.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
My advice for engaging in rational debate is to select adjectives that are suitable and avoid those that may provoke or sensationalize the discussion.

You mean like the ones that I used?

RileyG · Tuesday at 1:52 PM

LizaMarie said:
Yes, I didn't know the friend or child, it was one of her co-workers, but thank you!

God bless them abundantly!

Say it aint so · Tuesday at 1:51 PM

durangodawood said:
The reasoning in the hypothetical is so clear and obvious that I think the Christian proponents of this 10 Commandments law are no longer interested the the First Amendment protections from state imposed religion at all.

Instead, they are fine with the state promoting their religion while they are confident they can get the state - every state - to deny the same to other religions through force of law, which they will come to dominate via an engineered tyranny by the minority type situation..

The problem here, and my concern, is there is a current crop of SCOTUS justices who can't be depended to uphold what is clearly written as the 1st amendment. They decree strict constitutionalist when serves them, and ignore that same constitution ideology when it suits them.

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 1:45 PM

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
It is noteworthy how you articulated your point without resorting to adjectives such as "dictator," "authoritarian," or "fascist," which reinforces my argument.

And what, pray tell, do you think my point was?

Clare73 · Tuesday at 1:45 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
If you're not interested in a discussion or backing up your claims, one wonders why you would even bother posting here.

When you do the same for me. . .

Always in His Presence · Tuesday at 1:43 PM

GoldenBoy89 said:
Not really. You can’t outlaw people’s feelings, only their actions. If the act of burning a flag is illegal it should be illegal in all circumstances.

In a totalitarian regime it would.

GoldenBoy89 said:
Protest is (supposed to be) protected speech, btw.

Destruction has now been one acceptable parts of protest?

zoidar · Tuesday at 1:42 PM

A New Dawn said:
Arminianism doesn’t say you have to make yourself worthy to be saved. It suggests you can participate with God in being saved, but they fail to understand that when YOU make something a requirement for salvation YOU are creating a works-based salvation, so Arminianism is considered semi-pelagian in nature. The glory of the gospel is that while you were a sinner and without correct theology, since you had NO theology, Christ saved you, so it doesn’t matter what you believe. God saved you all on His own anyway. HE gets the glory, not you.

I, personally, believe that Arminianism is close to being heretical, but I know that this website doesn’t hold that position, so you are free to have that belief. The reason I hold my belief is from coming from a tradition where salvation required my participation, and the grief I bore when I felt I was not holding up my part of the bargain and the freedom I felt when I finally had the strength to cast aside that false illusion created by the devil to keep us in chains.

I thought what I held was close to Arminianism, maybe provisionism then? Anyhow I in no way believe you have to work for salvation. You say I believe we have to make ourselves worthy to be saved. I believe nothing like that. I believe we need to acknowledge and confess we are totally unworthy of salvation to be saved. God convicts, we confess our unworthiness, our need of His mercy, then God gives us His Spirit, saves us. Isn't that the teaching of classical Arminianism?

Maybe it's true God works in our heart long before we are saved, but we have still not received His Spirit, been born again until we repent, confess being a sinner unworty of salvation.

Always in His Presence · Tuesday at 1:41 PM

DaisyDay said:
Do you understand that people who vote across party lines are being represented if their candidate is elected? For instance, when people of all parties vote against, say, David Duke for whoever his strongest opponent might be are being represented whether their particular party won or not. The only way to achieve exact party representation would be to vote for the party, not the person. Some countries do this.

A decent elected official represents the interests of all their constituents to the best of their ability. Partisanly corrupt ones refuse.

Still didn’t answer my question.

Postvieww · Tuesday at 1:39 PM

DaisyDay said:
Which claim is ridiculous as there are several? That Biden is more physically fit than Trump? That Biden can ride a bike and Trump can't?

I don't know that I posted about Biden's health one way or the other.

Login to view embedded media Again ridiculous. Wrong on all counts Biden fell off of his bike. If you had said Trump doesn’t ride a bike that would be accurate, but you have no idea if he can or not. So strike two. I seriously doubt you have ever posted anything even slightly questioning Biden’s ability. Strike three unless you prove me wrong. If you show me otherwise I will publicly apologize to you,

LizaMarie · Tuesday at 1:39 PM

RileyG said:
Oh no! I’m sorry for your loss. That’s awful.

Yes, I didn't know the friend or child, it was one of her co-workers, but thank you!

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 1:32 PM

Clare73 said:
Why should I bother to address your assumptions. . . you don't sign my paycheck.

If you're not interested in a discussion or backing up your claims, one wonders why you would even bother posting here.

Erik Nelson · Tuesday at 1:32 PM

The Chinese recorded a supernova-like event appearing in the constellation of Capricorn for 70 days from March - April 5 BC.

Detractors observe there are no supernova remnants in our Milky Way in that direction, and that local supernovae tend to be visible for longer periods of time.

However, galaxy NGC 6822, with its active ionized hydrogen HII region NGC 6818 (= IC 1308), is in the right area on the sky, at a distance of ~1-1.5 million lightyears, far enough away that a supernova there might only have been visible for 70 days at the peak of its brightness curve. (There's also a local Planetary Nebula, the "Little Gem Neubla", 6000 lightyears away in our own galaxy, thought to be around 9000 years old, so it first appeared on our skies 3000 years ago, and possibly flared up 2000 years ago (?).)

Oompa Loompa · Tuesday at 1:32 PM

comana said:
I can’t sit through that much of Shapiro. 3 mins in and nothing about woke. Businesses rebrand, redecorate, update, change logos all the time. How is that woke (your word) is my question?

What you are saying is true, however the changes go completely against everything that makes Cracker Barrel different from any other restaurant. It completely destroys its identity. Even the family that founded the company are appalled.

FAITH-IN-HIM · Tuesday at 1:31 PM

RocksInMyHead said:
Then why would you specifically bring up one of those groups that is unwilling to change their views as an example?

Would you agree that Trump is someone who desires the concentration of power in an individual (e.g. the President) at the expense of political freedoms and civil rights? Does he demonize immigrants? Does he reject the democratic process? Does he promote the glorification of the nation and its leader? Is his core messaging about the decline of American society and how he's the only person who can fix it?

It is noteworthy how you articulated your point without resorting to adjectives such as "dictator," "authoritarian," or "fascist," which reinforces my argument. One can address important issues and clearly express opinions without employing provocative labels for politicians. Much of what you have written in this passage aligns with views I have also shared in this forum. However, when discussions incorporate inflammatory language—such as references to fascism, Nazism, Marxism, or Stalinism—we risk losing the moral high ground necessary for rational debate that aims to influence hearts and minds.

RileyG · Tuesday at 1:30 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
Well, apparently liking bacon is now a hate crime in the UK. So I will leave that there to show how sensitive and intolerant Muslims are.

Some extremists will complain if bacon is on the menu. It’s ridiculous.

Now back on topic

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 1:29 PM

Clare73 said:
I give up. . .why?

That is, indeed, the question. Bravo.

Clare73 · Tuesday at 1:28 PM

wing2000 said:
Why should anyone engage with you at all?

I give up. . .why?

Dan Perez · Tuesday at 1:28 PM

fhansen said:
Only if Adam's disobedience makes God small.

And here just one of the best verses. FOR OSAS .in eps 1:4. !!

# 1. JUST. as he has CHOSEN // EKLEGOMI. , is in the INDICATIVE MOOD , means you better believe it !!

# 2 US // PERSONAL POSSESSIVE PRONOUN. is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE , in the Plural and Plural , many are chosen

# 3 BEFORE // PRO , is a PREPOSITION

# 4 THE FOUNDATION // KATABOLE , is in the Genitive Case , in. the Singular. , means only one time

# 5 OF THE WORLD. // KOMOS. , is also in the Genitive Case , in the Singular , means only one time

dan p

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