hello all. I'm in a situation that i just don't quite know what to do. we got a new pastor a year ago. it started, the pastor wanted to meet with everyone, so i did, i ended walking out of the meeting. the pastors husband was at the meeting, and he started to go off on some things that happened at the church before we were there. He (not the pastor) started to bring some things up that I said was done and buried and I was not going to go thru that again, but he wouldn't stop, seeing that, I got up and said I don't have to take this, and while taking two steps out, he started in by saying "go ahead, run away like you have all your life"...this person didn't even know me...and to think I spent almost 2 hours helping them move into the parish house, me and only 2 to 3 others.
after a few weeks I cooled off....i was one of the people that run the local meal program, feeding on aveage 150 one night a week...there were just a few of us, and we got tired, working 2 days to fix the meals, we had been going for 12 years, and thru 2 pastors. one of the things was that the pastor was always there, and meet and talked with people, wonderful outreach, the new pastor, there only 3 or 4 times....then the new pastor does not list an after hours number to be contacted at...I could not believe it, but no where in the church stuff is there an after hours contact number....the needs of the flock does not end at 5 pm, and not available on fri-sun.
well, our meal program took a month or so off, one person could not come back due to health, so just a very few left but we thought we would try...well when we have our restart meeting, the pastor says the quality of our meals was low, and if we did better meals, we would have more people and they would pay more...first, we don't care what people throw into the donation plate, and the food is good, maybe it's basic, not fancy, it is good food...a menu was presented, which would require alot of work for those few that were left, and would have pushed the cost per plate to over $5, which we could handle, but not for a long time...well, that caused the remainder of the group to say no, they worked hard, to provide good meals, and now told the quality was low, and propose meals that would take alot of time (how about frying 150 pieces of chicken, making gravy from the drippings and then pealing potatoes to mash, plus a fancy desert)....and then say to fix something better for people will pay more...then the pastor recommended to operate only on rsvp....never heard of a church doing that for a meal, plus who was going to answer the phone...so...
the remainder of the group left, so now it's just me. Then one of the ladys were talking to me that does another food program, and come to find out, we now charge so much for the janitor to clean after a funeral dinner (a pretty nice sum, plus the church already pays the wage), and that the pastor requested money from the meal doantion to pay for the cleaning of the hall, but also $100 for their services doing the funeral....this was to come out for the donation for the meal...after all the other came out, almost not enough to pay for the food...that fund always carried a surplus since sometimes there were small donations for funeral meals. We never charged a cleaning fee, and many times, the pastors did not charge for a service, since they were already working for the church.
so, with all of this, i don't know if i can continue...i continue to help for the people in the community, we deliver to shut ins, we have older couples that come, and families with childen that don't have money, and some families come and get carry out to take home, since they don't want to get the whole family there. I also am a member of a group with only a few members that do commodies for the community, and do the big food semi that comes twice a year, and other things...but it is unbearable at the moment. Staff parrish will do nothing, matter of fact they believe the pastor is doing a wonderful job, but none on staff parrish help with any outreach activities.

what to do ?

Turkey has taken a nosedive in recent years. 5 years ago, it was heralded as a great emerging economy. Now it has 80% official annual inflation and experts say the real rate is double that. Besides that, it also is featuring a brain drain, as the young and educated are leaving it for greener pastures.

It seems like it is having much the same problem as Sri Lanka and Pakistan with deficit spending from a trade disparity, but there is the added problem of religion and Islam wanting low interest rates due to the faith's prohibition of making money off of lending money.






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Things are getting tougher and tougher for her. We talked today after I drove in to do her errands, etc. I’m going to pick her up next Thursday and bring her here so she can get a feel of things. I’m already taking care of her diabetic dog. I think that was her tipping point. I feel she is going to make a decision soon but there is lots to do. Prayers appreciated!

It's hard to explain this in a short post but basically my wife's come to me and asked me to pray about the possibility, or rather likelihood that her parents might give us their house. They just paid it off and apparently that was the last hurdle between her dad and retirement, supposedly their plan after that is her parents would retire to Ecuador where they have another home.

The problem is the house is a money pit, and you all know how badly I've wanted to move back to California since I set foot on east coast soil two years ago. I can see the benefits and drawbacks of both scenarios. She's asking me to pray about it so we don't ignore a lifeline God might be throwing us, but I'm afraid I can't be objective and if that God tells us to stay I may ignore or dismiss that.

I'm just completely convinced that moving to California isn't just what I want but it would also be good for my family. In some ways it'd be an "eat your vegetables" experience but in others I think there's real potential to be happy there and most importantly: grow in the faith. If we stay in NY we could be stuck with a house that's a huge liability, her dad's done a bunch of work on the house but it's not permitted, and as you might know towns in NY highly regulate everything - apparently the town already has an open file on the place because some neighbors narc'd on them years ago. The house may need new wiring, plumbing, and a septic tank at least. So we'd have to take out a small mortgage or a home equity loan to pay for those expenses. On top of that, my wife has expressed multiple times that she doesn't want to stay in her hometown longterm because she has bad memories on every corner and she thinks her family overall is a negative influence on her and the kids.

While it would be great to have a free house, I just don't think NY is a good place for my family to be. But I could use your help objectively seeking an answer from God about what to do because I don't trust myself to be honest if he tells me we need to stay.

So if you wouldn't mind praying, I'd appreciate it. And please, if you have any advice feel free to give.

Thanks

The new old car I bought to replace the one got totaled has developed some problems and is in the shop. I pray that whatever is wrong with it won't be too expensive to fix.

Also I'm really sick with a chest cold. Having a hard time breathing. Having difficulty sleeping because of it.

You know that balloon shot down last week near Alaska? It may have belonged to the Northern Illinois Bottlecap Balloon Brigade.

No, really:

Today I decided that I would like to make a big batch of rice pudding—because I love rice pudding, haven't had it in ages, and why not. However, times are tough right now and my wallet could feel all the milk that went into making the stuff.

So, while I let it simmer on the stove and do its rice pudding thing, I thought it might be worth looking at powdered milk as possibly a cheaper option for my family. I remember we had to do that back in the day, during the recession in the 1980s, because we couldn't afford real milk.

We mostly use milk in baking and cooking, anyway—especially pancakes and muffins—where the taste difference between real milk and powdered would just disappear. And for times when we need it plain, like in a bowl of cereal, I could add things to it that would make it more palatable, maybe a touch of vanilla and a hint of nutmeg. I could make this doable.

But, as I am looking at these prices, something seemed a little off. This didn't exactly feel much cheaper. I was looking at 2.5 kg of skim milk powder for $42 (prices are in Canadian dollars) and thinking maybe they might actually cost the same amount. So, I decided to crunch some numbers and, assuming my math works out, I was appalled to discover that powdered milk is actually more expensive than regular dairy milk!

And I mean significantly more expensive. If 500 g of skim milk powder costs $8.40 and makes four liters of milk, then it is over a dollar more expensive, on average, than the same amount of regular milk. In other words, 250 mL of milk from powder is 53 cents whereas 250 mL of regular milk runs about 44 cents—almost ten cents more expensive per cup.

Welcome to Justinflation (or Bidenflation), where now even powdered milk is out of reach for the poor. What a time to be alive.

"The way the elites think of the economy is very related to green ideology. They picture an economy in which the top 20 per cent keeps making over $100,000 a year and lives in nice neighbourhoods and nice cities. All production is done in China. All service-industry jobs are performed by slave-wage Venezuelans brought in by cartels. And everybody making under $100,000 a year – who used to be the working class – is on universal basic income. That’s the view that a lot of so-called progressives consciously or unconsciously have of their ideal economic system."- Batya Ungar-Sargon, on how the working classes are being sacrificed to elite virtue-signalling


Ms. Ungar-Sargon is not a right-wing Republican. She is an editor at Newsweek, also not a right-wing publication. From what I see in the political class, she is correct, and it's not necessarily just a Democrat view. Many Republicans have sold us down the river as well.

Morning & Evening for 02/11/2023​

Morning:​

"And they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus." — Acts 4:13
A Christian should be a striking likeness of Jesus Christ. You have read lives of Christ, beautifully and eloquently written, but the best life of Christ is his living biography, written out in the words and actions of his people. If we were what we profess to be, and what we should be, we should be pictures of Christ; yea, such striking likenesses of him, that the world would not have to hold us up by the hour together, and say, "Well, it seems somewhat of a likeness;" but they would, when they once beheld us, exclaim, "He has been with Jesus; he has been taught of him; he is like him; he has caught the very idea of the holy Man of Nazareth, and he works it out in his life and every-day actions." A Christian should be like Christ in his boldness. Never blush to own your religion; your profession will never disgrace you: take care you never disgrace that. Be like Jesus, very valiant for your God. Imitate him in your loving spirit; think kindly, speak kindly, and do kindly, that men may say of you, "He has been with Jesus." Imitate Jesus in his holiness. Was he zealous for his Master? So be you; ever go about doing good. Let not time be wasted: it is too precious. Was he self-denying, never looking to his own interest? Be the same. Was he devout? Be you fervent in your prayers. Had he deference to his Father's will? So submit yourselves to him. Was he patient? So learn to endure. And best of all, as the highest portraiture of Jesus, try to forgive your enemies, as he did; and let those sublime words of your Master, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do," always ring in your ears. Forgive, as you hope to be forgiven. Heap coals of fire on the head of your foe by your kindness to him. Good for evil, recollect, is godlike. Be godlike, then; and in all ways and by all means, so live that all may say of you, "He has been with Jesus."

Evening:​

"Thou hast left thy first love." — Revelation 2:4
Ever to be remembered is that best and brightest of hours, when first we saw the Lord, lost our burden, received the roll of promise, rejoiced in full salvation, and went on our way in peace. It was spring time in the soul; the winter was past; the mutterings of Sinai's thunders were hushed; the flashings of its lightnings were no more perceived; God was beheld as reconciled; the law threatened no vengeance, justice demanded no punishment. Then the flowers appeared in our heart; hope, love, peace, and patience sprung from the sod; the hyacinth of repentance, the snowdrop of pure holiness, the crocus of golden faith, the daffodil of early love, all decked the garden of the soul. The time of the singing of birds was come, and we rejoiced with thanksgiving; we magnified the holy name of our forgiving God, and our resolve was, "Lord, I am thine, wholly thine; all I am, and all I have, I would devote to thee. Thou hast bought me with thy blood-let me spend myself and be spent in thy service. In life and in death let me be consecrated to thee." How have we kept this resolve? Our espousal love burned with a holy flame of devoutedness to Jesus-is it the same now? Might not Jesus well say to us, "I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love"? Alas! it is but little we have done for our Master's glory. Our winter has lasted all too long. We are as cold as ice when we should feel a summer's glow and bloom with sacred flowers. We give to God pence when he deserveth pounds, nay, deserveth our heart's blood to be coined in the service of his church and of his truth. But shall we continue thus? O Lord, after thou hast so richly blessed us, shall we be ungrateful and become indifferent to thy good cause and work? O quicken us that we may return to our first love, and do our first works! Send us a genial spring, O Sun of Righteousness.

I remember when I was in my 30's. I was an irrational extremist, like most all 30-something's. I believed that only Catholics went to heaven, and that the American left was run by Freemasons. I talk to other 30-something's, and 9 times out of ten, they're quick to tell me how right they are about the world, and how wrong others are who disagree with them. So yes, I'm blowing the cover off the roof here, just like people do with Biden being "old". If ageism isn't a problem, then neither is "telling the truth" about 30-something's.

Here's an article that displays the 30-something brand of extremism:

Hello I have never done a forum before but here it goes. My fiance and I are set to get married in December, but lately it seems like we won't even get there because of aspects of my medical training that make her extremely uneasy. In my training lately we have had to be paired with classmates of the opposite gender and touch around intimate areas such as the buttocks to learn adjustments of the pelvis and such. If anyone is aware this is called Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine and is part of DO (pretty much same degree as a MD) training. My fiance has said that because she is uncomfortable with this I have to find a way to avoid this and avoid aspects of my training that will hinder the sanctity of our physical relationship. She insists that a Godly husband would not let his future wife feel this way and that I should be willing to show sacrificial love to choose her wellness over my profession. I was just hoping to find any sort of guidance or perspective on this if anyone has any because I am super lost.

Hello I have never done a forum before but here it goes. My fiance and I are set to get married in December, but lately it seems like we won't even get there because of aspects of my medical training that make her extremely uneasy. In my training lately we have had to be paired with classmates of the opposite gender and touch around intimate areas such as the buttocks to learn adjustments of the pelvis and such. If anyone is aware this is called Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine and is part of DO (pretty much same degree as a MD) training. My fiance has said that because she is uncomfortable with this I have to find a way to avoid this and avoid aspects of my training that will hinder the sanctity of our physical relationship. She insists that a Godly husband would not let his future wife feel this way and that I should be willing to show sacrificial love to choose her wellness over my profession. I was just hoping to find any sort of guidance or perspective on this if anyone has any because I am super lost.

The Bible is abundantly clear that our salvation is not the result of having done works, such as in Romans 4:1-5, where it denies that we can earn our justification as a wage. This has led some to think that works are instead the result of our salvation, to think that the problem is that we can't do enough works that would result in our salvation, and/or to think that works have nothing to do with our salvation, though all of these are mistaken.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to it is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it. For example, honoring our parents is intrinsically the concept of Jesus saving us from not honoring our parents. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so it is neither the case that our salvation is the result of doing those works or that doing them is the result of our salvation, but that God graciously teaching us to do them is intrinsically the content of His gift of saving us from not doing them.

In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through having good enough works, but rather they testify that it comes through faith in Christ for all who believe. In Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, however, if our obedience to it were about trying to be good enough, then it would not be the way to find rest for our souls. God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so our obedience to His instructions is about having faith in Him to correctly divide between good and evil rather than leaning on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:1-6), and it is through that same faith that we are declared righteous. Choosing to take righteous actions through faith is intrinsically part of being righteous in much the same way as choosing to take courageous actions is intrinsically part of being courageous.

At least that's what this guy believes: Blacks are systematically oppressed in America because that's the way the Whites want it.

I'm not going to bother to address his beliefs, but I will say that I've heard a lot of this type of drivel from various sectors of the Black community in the last 10 years or so, and it always boils down to the same thing: Blacks will never have a chance in America, because the whole system is designed to repress them.

My question remains: If the Blacks who feel this way truly believe that they can never rise above the second-class status they supposedly suffer from in America, then ***WHY IN HEAVEN'S NAME DO THEY STAY HERE?!??*** If I truly believed I could never better myself in a certain country, you can bet I'd be moving heaven and earth to get out of that country. Why would I stay in a place that was so detrimental to me, and live in such conditions, all the while whining and moaning and complaining about how rough I had it?

If every last American Black who feels this way about America were to sell everything that they own and pool their money, I have no doubts that they could probably purchase a homeland for themselves somewhere in the world. They might have to pioneer it, but wouldn't it be worth it for them to be out from under such a repressive system?

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Context: Jesus Christ called together his twelve disciples. He sent them out to the lost sheep of Israel, but not to the Gentiles and not to the Samaritans at that time. And he instructed them to do much of what he did during his time of ministry on the earth, which was to heal the sick, to raise the dead, and to cast out demons, etc. And he told them that he was sending them out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so they were to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. And he told them that they would be persecuted.

Matthew 10:21-22 ESV


Later on down in this passage of Scripture (vv. 34-39) Jesus taught basically that he did not come to bring peace to the earth. He came to bring peace to the individual hearts of those who trust in him as Lord and as Savior, but his mission was not world peace. He came to bring a sword, and that sword truly is the sword of the Spirit, the word of God, the gospel, which does turn family members against one another. For when one believes in Jesus with genuine faith and another does not it, the nonbeliever may turn against the believer, in many different ways, including some things mentioned here.

And then with regard to this last sentence here in v. 22, what Jesus said in vv. 34-39 also fits, for he said that if we love our family members more, meaning we give preference to them over our Lord Jesus, then we are not worthy of him. And if we don’t take our cross and follow him in obedience, meaning if we don’t die daily to sin and to self and follow him in obedience (see Luke 9:23-26), we are not worthy of him. For if we hold on to our lives of sin, we will lose them for eternity. But if we die to sin and to self and follow Jesus in obedience, then we have life in Christ for eternity.

So, a mere profession of faith in Jesus Christ does not secure heaven for us when we die. We must die with Christ to sin and deny self and follow Jesus in obedience to him and to his commands (New Covenant). And we must walk according to the Spirit and no longer according to the flesh, in practice. Sin must not be our practice, for if it is, and if righteousness and the forsaking of our sins and walking in obedience to our Lord are not what we practice, then we do not have eternal life with God. And if we do not continue in Christ until the very end, we will not be saved in the end.

Matthew 10:26-28 ESV


Now, going back to the subject of persecution, those of us who are following the Lord in obedience and in walks of righteousness, and who are daily dying to sin and denying self are going to be persecuted, especially if we are sharing the gospel of our salvation with others and if we are refuting Satan’s lies. And that persecution may come from family members, and it may come from others who profess faith in Jesus Christ, too. But we are not to fear what others will do to us or say about us, but we are to honor God with our lives and keep on speaking the truth for all to hear.

[Matt 7:21-23; Matt 24:9-14; Lu 9:23-26; Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14,24; Rom 12:1-2; Rom 13:11; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; 1 Co 1:18; 1 Co 15:1-2; 2 Tim 1:8-9; Heb 9:28; 1 Pet 1:5; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-32; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-17; 1 Pet 2:24; Tit 2:11-14; 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6,24-25; 1 Jn 3:4-10; Heb 3:6,14-15; Heb 10:23-31; Heb 12:1-2; Rev 21:8,27; Rev 22:14-15]

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If That Isn’t Love

By Dottie Rambo

He left the splendor of heaven
Knowing His destiny
Was the lonely hill of Golgotha
There to lay down His life for me

And if that isn't love
Then the ocean is dry
There's no stars in the sky
And the little sparrows can't fly
Yeah if that isn't love
Then heaven's a myth
There's no feeling like this
If that isn't love

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Pray that my cousin Rommel won't get accused for something he didn't do Amen

US States Fail to Protect Children’s Rights

(New York) – United States state laws overwhelmingly fail to meet international child rights standards, with the vast majority failing to protect children from child marriage, hazardous child labor, extreme prison sentences, and violent treatment, Human Rights Watch said today. Human Rights Watch gave 20 states a failing “F” grade, and 26 a “D.” Not a single state received a “B” or an “A.” New Jersey, Ohio, Iowa, and Minnesota were the only states to receive a “C” grade.

A new Human Rights Watch interactive scorecard assessed 12 specific state laws in all 50 states against standards set by the Convention on the Rights of the Child, the primary international treaty on the rights of children. The laws address four issues: child marriage, corporal punishment, child labor, and juvenile justice. The United States is the only country that has failed to ratify the Convention, ratified by 196 countries.

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The lack of protection and an upholding of rights of BORN, sentient children feels like it should be disconcerting to EVERYONE.

It was expected and one of those cases that we were glad in a sense, but still death is hard

pray please

I just want to introduce myself. my name is Gavreel from Ireland and im new to this forum and relatively new to the Christian faith however i was born and raised Catholic. Hope you're all having a good day.

Recently in Sunday school, a teacher made the distinction between OT prophets and the "gift of prophecy" with NT prophets (such as Agabus). Because Agabus' prophecy (Act 21:11) wasn't "literally" fulfilled (my term which the teacher meticulously avoided using) he claimed that a NT prophet (other than apostles), wouldn't be "proclaiming an infallible word from the Lord" per se -- that in fact "the gift of prophecy in the NT may be somewhat distorted and impure" (the teacher's words). In his mind Agabus' prophecy fits the bill because the Jews did not [literally] bind Paul's hands, nor did they [literally] deliver Paul over to the Roman soldiers (Act 21:27-33).


The teacher is clearly implying that the NT gift of prophecy is inferior to the prophetic utterances of the OT prophets and the prophecies of NT apostles. But I have a problem with this on two counts: All true prophecy comes by the Holy Spirit -- the same Spirit who inspired the OT prophets and the apostles and presumbably NT saints gifted with prophecy. Moses provided two tests which Israelites were supposed to apply to all prophecies (Deut 13:1-4; 18:21-22). Since Agabus' prophecy was "distorted and impure" (according to the teacher), how can we not conclude that the prophet spoke "presumptuously" and that the message he spoke was not of the Lord, according to the latter passage? Huge problem. Did not the NT church receive the same Spirit as the OT prophets and the NT apostles?

Moreover, it certainly seems that the vast majority of the OT prophets did far more forthtelling (admonishing, exhorting, rebuking, warning, moral/spiritual instruction) than foretelling (making future predictions). Therefore, Deut 13:1-4 would apply. But also in the NT, Paul's instruction about the gift of prophecy seems to have more to do with forthtelling, as well (1Cor 14:3, 6, 18-19). I'm wondering, then, how the early Church would have "tested" such forthtelling. Would they have used Deut 13:1-4 as a test? If so, when a NT prophet (other than an apostle) predicted something, I'm thinking the Church would have used Deuteronomy 18 as the litmus test.

I personally view Agabus' prophecy as being fulfilled in principle -- fulfilled fundamentally, since the Jews were the ones who rioted and caused the great commotion that led to the Roman soldiers intervening. If it weren't for murderous Jews who wanted to kill Paul, the soldiers would not have intervened and bound the apostle, nor would they have come to Paul's rescue (an unintended consequence of the Jews' action), which could be viewed as their "delivering" Paul to the soldiers. The Jews, therefore, were DIRECTLY responsible for both acts -- Paul being bound and winding up in the hands of the soldiers. In a real sense, one could say Agabus' prophecy was fulfilled in "spirit" as opposed to "the letter". But...is there any precedent for this type of fulfillment with the OT prophets or the NT apostles?

I'm personally convinced that not all prophecy has been literally fulfilled, e.g. Daniel's 70 weeks, even the 70 years captivity (but I do not want to debate these here). But these prophecies have to do with numbers being used figuratively; but I can't think of any along the lines of the Agabus' prophecy. So, my question to this forum is this: Does anyone know of any prophecy in scripture by any OT prophet or NT apostle that wasn't fulfilled literally but "in principle"? Of course, typological fulfillments or eschatological fulfillments wouldn't count.

A great spiritual awakening is erupting just now at a Kentucky University among college students, an awakening that is attracting pilgrim visitors from across the USA:

Christian university in Kentucky draws pilgrims nationwide amid spiritual revival: 'Gives me so much hope'

I have spent a bunch of time compiling many of the passages that speak about The Angel of The Lord. Reading these has left me in awe many times and I'm so grateful that our Lord God Christ is shown so clearly. These are all of the passages that through Bible Dictionaries and cross referencing I have been able to find. It has been a bit hard because due to the nature of The Angel of The Lord (pre-incarnate Christ) some are deductive and it's not just listing Scripture where it's immediately overtly explicit. Though it is explicit but as you will see words like "an Angel of The Lord" do not inherently mean "The Angel of The Lord", though some "an Angel of The Lord" references are referencing The Angel of The Lord (who is God). I figured I would share some of my study notes as well as the list of scriptures as I have benefited greatly from it and I thought maybe it might help someone else either currently or in the future. Also if I have missed any I would be tremendously grateful if you could post them as personally this subject is of immense importance and value to me. I really didn't expect it to be a mammoth of a task, I only thought there were some Christophanies. I had no idea there were so many. It was a very welcome, great and awesome surprise.

The references to arguments against "accretion" will become clear in the study notes I post in the second post of this thread. It had to do with something I came across while researching that is quite honestly in my opinion, obscene and insane argumentation that makes little sense in light of Christ. If you're just looking for the passages then please ignore them.

The List does not reference the full chapters in which He is mentioned. So when reading specific references in order to get the context of the Christophanies/Theophanies it would be best if you read the surrounding verses or chapter that is listed. Or not, do whatever you want xD. The list itself also has the specific names that are referencing the being of The Angel of The Lord. All research was done with the NASB1995 and therefore the references and language used will be congruent with that specific translation. God bless you all and all glory to our awesome and loving Lord God. I pray that this subject of the awesome gift that is The Scriptures strengthens your faith and reverence for God as it did mine.


Genesis 16:7, 9, 10, 11 (The Angel of The Lord)

Genesis 17:1 (The Lord)

Genesis 18:1 (The Lord)

Genesis 21:17 (The Angel of God) [Here God hears and the Angel of God responds, which again argues against an accretion (from literally Genesis it argues against it lol)]

Genesis 22:11, 15 (The Angel of The Lord) [Genesis 22:12 He calls Himself God]

Genesis 31:11-13 (The Angel of God) [He calls Himself God here again] (God of Bethel; cross reference Genesis 35:1 & Genesis 28:12-19)

Genesis 32:24-30 (a man) (God) (Peniel is “face of God”) (Cross reference Hosea 12:3-4 “the angel” and “God”) (Cross Reference Hosea 12:5 “The Lord”, “the God of Hosts”, “The LORD” [i.e., the divine name])

Exodus 3:2-6 (The Angel of The Lord) [He Calls Himself God here again]

Exodus 14:19 (The Angel of God)

Exodus 13:21 (The Lord, though this is an Angel according to Numbers 20:16, so the same being)

Exodus 14:19 (The angel of God, Cross reference: Ex 13:21, Num 20:16, 1 Cor 10:1-4)

Exodus 23:20-21 (An Angel, but “my name is in Him”)

Exodus 23:20-23 (an Angel, My Angel)

Exodus 32:34 (My Angel)

Numbers 22: 22-27, 31-35 (The Angel of The Lord)

Joshua 5:13-15 (Commander of The Army of The Lord)

Judges 2:1, 4 (The Angel of The Lord)

Judges 5:23 (the angel of the Lord)

Judges 6:11-12, 21-22 (The Angel of The Lord)

Judges 6:20 (The Angel of God)

Judges 6:22 (the angel of the Lord) (v22 Gideon thinks he will die for doing so & in v23 The Lord assures him he will live)

Judges 13:3, 13, 15-18, 20-21 (The Angel of The Lord)

Judges 13:6, 18 (Man of God, Manoah was confused as evidenced by 13:16) [Isa 9:6 cross reference to the name which prophesies about our Saviour: Wonderful]

Judges 13:9 (The Angel of God)

2 Samuel 24:16 (the angel of the Lord)

1 Kings 19:17 (The angel of the Lord)

2 Kings 1:3 (the angel of the Lord)

2 Kings 1:15 (The angel of the Lord)

2 Kings 19:35 (the Angel of The Lord)

1 Chronicles 21:12, 15, 16, 18, 27, 30 (the angel of the Lord, v.27 the angel)

2 Chronicles 32:21 (an angel, it’s The Angel of The Lord: 2 Kings 19:35)

Isaiah 37:36 (the angel of the Lord)

Isaiah 63:9 (the angel of His presence)

Hosea 12:3-5 (the angel) (The angel is called God in verse 3 and this is the Angel that Jacob called God and named the place Peniel [the face of God] in Genesis 32:30) (“The Lord”, “the God of Hosts”, “The LORD” [i.e., the divine name])

Zechariah 1:11-12 (The Angel of The Lord) (v.12 distinctly Trinitarian like Christ’s baptism and His prayers, The Angel of The Lord who is Elohim asks Elohim a question)

Zechariah 3:1, 5-7 (The Angel of The Lord) (v.7 is Trinitarian as The angel of The Lord who is Elohim speaks for Elohim as if He is distinct)

Zechariah 12:8 (The Angel of The Lord) [Wow what an awesome prophecy] [This also proves that the Israelites saw Him as distinct, just like they did in judges with Manoah. So it can’t be argued as an accretion]


Genesis 24:7 (His Angel, the Angel is being sent from God. The Son was sent too.)

Genesis 32:30 (Genesis 32:29 cross reference Judges 13:18? “Why do you ask my name?”)

Genesis 48:15-16 (The Angel is equated with God “Redeemed him from all evil”)

Numbers 20:16 (The Angel here is the being who was called the Lord in Exodus 13:21)

Daniel 3:25

Daniel 6:22


Psalm 34:7 (The angel of the Lord)

Psalm 35:5 (the angel of the Lord)

Psalm 35:6 (the angel of The Lord)

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 [Paul states here explicitly that the being who followed the Israelites in Exodus was Christ]

• V. 1 reference b (Exodus 13:21)
• V. 4 reference a (Exodus 17:6)