The Angel of The Lord and Jesus Christ (Trinitarianism in the OT)

[Tranquil Bondservant]

I have spent a bunch of time compiling many of the passages that speak about The Angel of The Lord. Reading these has left me in awe many times and I'm so grateful that our Lord God Christ is shown so clearly. These are all of the passages that through Bible Dictionaries and cross referencing I have been able to find. It has been a bit hard because due to the nature of The Angel of The Lord (pre-incarnate Christ) some are deductive and it's not just listing Scripture where it's immediately overtly explicit. Though it is explicit but as you will see words like "an Angel of The Lord" do not inherently mean "The Angel of The Lord", though some "an Angel of The Lord" references are referencing The Angel of The Lord (who is God). I figured I would share some of my study notes as well as the list of scriptures as I have benefited greatly from it and I thought maybe it might help someone else either currently or in the future. Also if I have missed any I would be tremendously grateful if you could post them as personally this subject is of immense importance and value to me. I really didn't expect it to be a mammoth of a task, I only thought there were some Christophanies. I had no idea there were so many. It was a very welcome, great and awesome surprise.

The references to arguments against "accretion" will become clear in the study notes I post in the second post of this thread. It had to do with something I came across while researching that is quite honestly in my opinion, obscene and insane argumentation that makes little sense in light of Christ. If you're just looking for the passages then please ignore them.

The List does not reference the full chapters in which He is mentioned. So when reading specific references in order to get the context of the Christophanies/Theophanies it would be best if you read the surrounding verses or chapter that is listed. Or not, do whatever you want xD. The list itself also has the specific names that are referencing the being of The Angel of The Lord. All research was done with the NASB1995 and therefore the references and language used will be congruent with that specific translation. God bless you all and all glory to our awesome and loving Lord God. I pray that this subject of the awesome gift that is The Scriptures strengthens your faith and reverence for God as it did mine.

The Angel of The Lord Passages​

Genesis 16:7, 9, 10, 11 (The Angel of The Lord)

Genesis 17:1 (The Lord)

Genesis 18:1 (The Lord)

Genesis 21:17 (The Angel of God) [Here God hears and the Angel of God responds, which again argues against an accretion (from literally Genesis it argues against it lol)]

Genesis 22:11, 15 (The Angel of The Lord) [Genesis 22:12 He calls Himself God]

Genesis 31:11-13 (The Angel of God) [He calls Himself God here again] (God of Bethel; cross reference Genesis 35:1 & Genesis 28:12-19)

Genesis 32:24-30 (a man) (God) (Peniel is “face of God”) (Cross reference Hosea 12:3-4 “the angel” and “God”) (Cross Reference Hosea 12:5 “The Lord”, “the God of Hosts”, “The LORD” [i.e., the divine name])

Exodus 3:2-6 (The Angel of The Lord) [He Calls Himself God here again]

Exodus 14:19 (The Angel of God)

Exodus 13:21 (The Lord, though this is an Angel according to Numbers 20:16, so the same being)

Exodus 14:19 (The angel of God, Cross reference: Ex 13:21, Num 20:16, 1 Cor 10:1-4)

Exodus 23:20-21 (An Angel, but “my name is in Him”)

Exodus 23:20-23 (an Angel, My Angel)

Exodus 32:34 (My Angel)

Numbers 22: 22-27, 31-35 (The Angel of The Lord)

Joshua 5:13-15 (Commander of The Army of The Lord)

Judges 2:1, 4 (The Angel of The Lord)

Judges 5:23 (the angel of the Lord)

Judges 6:11-12, 21-22 (The Angel of The Lord)

Judges 6:20 (The Angel of God)

Judges 6:22 (the angel of the Lord) (v22 Gideon thinks he will die for doing so & in v23 The Lord assures him he will live)

Judges 13:3, 13, 15-18, 20-21 (The Angel of The Lord)

Judges 13:6, 18 (Man of God, Manoah was confused as evidenced by 13:16) [Isa 9:6 cross reference to the name which prophesies about our Saviour: Wonderful]

Judges 13:9 (The Angel of God)

2 Samuel 24:16 (the angel of the Lord)

1 Kings 19:17 (The angel of the Lord)

2 Kings 1:3 (the angel of the Lord)

2 Kings 1:15 (The angel of the Lord)

2 Kings 19:35 (the Angel of The Lord)

1 Chronicles 21:12, 15, 16, 18, 27, 30 (the angel of the Lord, v.27 the angel)

2 Chronicles 32:21 (an angel, it’s The Angel of The Lord: 2 Kings 19:35)

Isaiah 37:36 (the angel of the Lord)

Isaiah 63:9 (the angel of His presence)

Hosea 12:3-5 (the angel) (The angel is called God in verse 3 and this is the Angel that Jacob called God and named the place Peniel [the face of God] in Genesis 32:30) (“The Lord”, “the God of Hosts”, “The LORD” [i.e., the divine name])

Zechariah 1:11-12 (The Angel of The Lord) (v.12 distinctly Trinitarian like Christ’s baptism and His prayers, The Angel of The Lord who is Elohim asks Elohim a question)

Zechariah 3:1, 5-7 (The Angel of The Lord) (v.7 is Trinitarian as The angel of The Lord who is Elohim speaks for Elohim as if He is distinct)

Zechariah 12:8 (The Angel of The Lord) [Wow what an awesome prophecy] [This also proves that the Israelites saw Him as distinct, just like they did in judges with Manoah. So it can’t be argued as an accretion]

Potential passages​

Genesis 24:7 (His Angel, the Angel is being sent from God. The Son was sent too.)

Genesis 32:30 (Genesis 32:29 cross reference Judges 13:18? “Why do you ask my name?”)

Genesis 48:15-16 (The Angel is equated with God “Redeemed him from all evil”)

Numbers 20:16 (The Angel here is the being who was called the Lord in Exodus 13:21)

Daniel 3:25

Daniel 6:22

Mentions of The Angel of The Lord but not Christophanies/Theophanies​

Psalm 34:7 (The angel of the Lord)

Psalm 35:5 (the angel of the Lord)

Psalm 35:6 (the angel of The Lord)

Miscellaneous
​

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 [Paul states here explicitly that the being who followed the Israelites in Exodus was Christ]

• V. 1 reference b (Exodus 13:21)
• V. 4 reference a (Exodus 17:6)

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

Personal Study Notes​

Honestly when I’m reading some of these passages it feels like I’m watching a movie. Like with the passage in Joshua 5:14-15. My God is just something else, there’s nothing like Him. He’s so cool.
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Daniel 8:16 “And I heard the voice of a man between the banks of Ulai, and he called out and said, “Gabriel, give this man an understanding of the vision.”: Is the one who has the voice of a man and commands/asks this Angel Jesus Christ? If so it holds Gabriel out as being distinct from The Angel of The Lord or rather a different being than The Angel of The Lord, which has NT implications (The Angel who appears in Luke 1 is Gabriel).
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The inter-connectivity of the passages that cross reference verses that refer to Him (The Angel of The Lord) as God is awesome. It’s like a building that is built supporting it’s own weight. Instead of having to make arguments in support of the Scriptures that present Him as God, they do so themselves. Even small things like “an Angel” turns out to be The Angel of The Lord when you read further on. Like in the example of Exodus 13:21 and Numbers 20:16.
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To argue any way that He is an accretion from angel worship like He is argued here is ridiculous:
"The contradiction here presented can be adequately explained only on the supposition that the evolution of thought on the subject must have run somewhat on the following lines. From the earliest angelology of the Hebrews, itself the offspring of still earlier Animistic conceptions, there emerged the figure of Jahweh; originally, i.e. long before the time of Moses, Jahweh must, in the popular mind, have been regarded as belonging to the angelic host, and by degrees He assumed a more and more exalted position; as subjective revelation increased, the more fully did the personality of Jahweh become realized, and His superiority to the angels recognized, though in the process it was inevitable that the differentiation should not always be complete. When ultimately, under the Mosaic dispensation, the holy character and the real nature of Jahweh began to be apprehended, the belief that He personally appeared among men necessarily became more and more untenable; hence, while Jahweh Himself receded further from men, His messenger, or angel, appeared in His stead, and became His representative in all His dealings with men. What must have been such a revolution in the time-honoured faith would meet with many retrograde movements before it finally triumphed, as is shown by such passages as Judges 6:19. Some such process must be predicated in order to understand the otherwise unaccountable contradiction referred to above.” - Hastings, James, John A. Selbie, John C. Lambert, and Shailer Mathews. 1909. In Dictionary of the Bible, 33. New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons.

Because He is spoken of consistently from the beginning to the end of the OT Canon and then when The Lord Jesus Christ appears, He just happens to be a person in whom the same manner of speech, character traits and distinctions fit? What, is Jesus Christ an accretion from angel worship too (even though during His time there is no room within Monotheism)? The Triune nature of our God makes far more sense and not only coincides with Christ being referred to as God, but also the manner of which He is lines up in the same way The Angel of The Lord being referred to as God does. What a coincidence that Jesus Christ perfectly fits with the Old Testament that He claimed was about Him. What a coincidence that Jesus Christ fits in the same parameters that The Angel of The Lord was in; God and yet distinct from God, God and yet sent from God, an Angel and yet worshiped as God (Joshua 5:14, Judges 13:16-22), an Angel and yet called the divine name Yahweh, an Angel and yet God’s name is in Him (Exodus 23:21, John 14:10), an Angel and yet He can pardon or not pardon transgressions (Exodus 23:21, Matthew 9:6) and et al.

 

[Canuckster]

Personal Study Notes​

Honestly when I’m reading some of these passages it feels like I’m watching a movie. Like with the passage in Joshua 5:14-15. My God is just something else, there’s nothing like Him. He’s so cool.

Nice compilation. If Abraham or Moses were alive during the time of Christ they would have recognized Him immediately. For when Jesus said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” He meant it.

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

Nice compilation. If Abraham or Moses were alive during the time of Christ they would have recognized Him immediately. For when Jesus said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” He meant it.

Thank you (all glory to God though as He put it in my heart) and amen. It's surprising how many times His being is present in the OT. And to further your point, John 8:56.

God bless

 

[Canuckster]

Thank you (all glory to God though as He put it in my heart) and amen. It's surprising how many times His being is present in the OT. And to further your point, John 8:56.

God bless

That's a great thing to have in your heart. He's always been the Star of the bible and He has many, many Names. In my early days of conversion reading the OT was exciting because I was always wondering/anticipating what He was going to do next to solve what seemed to be the impossible. He's got His own way of doing things; He's definitely "cool" as He's the same in Genesis all the way through to Revelation.

 

[Canuckster]

Judges 2:1, 4 (The Angel of The Lord)

The visit by the Angel of the Lord (Jesus) recorded in Judges 2 is most remarkable because the entire population of Israel saw Jesus. Here Jesus (the Angel of the Lord) is giving a speech to the entire congregation of Israel, a speech that was so moving that when He finished speaking “to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept.” As a result they called the place Bochim (Bethel).

Now there must have been a lot of preparation that preceded this great event because Joshua would have had to first be notified in order to gather “all the children of Israel” together. At that time the population could have been close to one million men excluding women and children. All that’s said in Judges is that “the Angel of the Lord came up from Gilgal to Bochim (Bethel). Gilgal was the first place the children of Israel took possession of after crossing the Jordan and the place of the ark of the covenant and the tabernacle. Then after this great speech they were so moved that they called the name of the place Bochim “weepers”. Then after they offered sacrifices in the presence of the Angel of the Lord (Jesus), Joshua, who led the organizing of this whole event, dismissed the people and they went each to their own inheritance to possess the land.

Through my research and experience, when the Lord and when angels appear in physical form, they all have the appearance of young men in their prime between the ages of 21 to 25. They never appear as older or mature looking men in their 30s and up. This is why I believe the disciples, except for John, had trouble recognizing Jesus from a distance during one of His latter physical appearances when He was manning the barbecue by the sea. His appearance was of a very young man, appearing exactly the same as He had always appeared throughout the OT as the Angel of the Lord.

 

[Tranquil Bondservant]

Through my research and experience, when the Lord and when angels appear in physical form, they all have the appearance of young men in their prime between the ages of 21 to 25. They never appear as older or mature looking men in their 30s and up. This is why I believe the disciples, except for John, had trouble recognizing Jesus from a distance during one of His latter physical appearances when He was manning the barbecue by the sea. His appearance was of a very young man, appearing exactly the same as He had always appeared throughout the OT as the Angel of the Lord.

This is a really cool insight. Thank you for sharing

 

[a_ntv]

[Edit: I've left the website but feel free to continue contributing to the threads I've made. Iron sharpens iron. Isaiah 1:18.]
I have spent a bunch of time compiling many of the passages that speak about The Angel of The Lord. Reading these has left me in awe many times and I'm so grateful that our Lord God Christ is shown so clearly. These are all of the passages that through Bible Dictionaries and cross referencing I have been able to find. It has been a bit hard because due to the nature of The Angel of The Lord (pre-incarnate Christ) some are deductive and it's not just listing Scripture where it's immediately overtly explicit. Though it is explicit but as you will see words like "an Angel of The Lord" do not inherently mean "The Angel of The Lord", though some "an Angel of The Lord" references are referencing The Angel of The Lord (who is God). I figured I would share some of my study notes as well as the list of scriptures as I have benefited greatly from it and I thought maybe it might help someone else either currently or in the future. Also if I have missed any I would be tremendously grateful if you could post them as personally this subject is of immense importance and value to me. I really didn't expect it to be a mammoth of a task, I only thought there were some Christophanies. I had no idea there were so many. It was a very welcome, great and awesome surprise.

The references to arguments against "accretion" will become clear in the study notes I post in the second post of this thread. It had to do with something I came across while researching that is quite honestly in my opinion, obscene and insane argumentation that makes little sense in light of Christ. If you're just looking for the passages then please ignore them.

The List does not reference the full chapters in which He is mentioned. So when reading specific references in order to get the context of the Christophanies/Theophanies it would be best if you read the surrounding verses or chapter that is listed. Or not, do whatever you want xD. The list itself also has the specific names that are referencing the being of The Angel of The Lord. All research was done with the NASB1995 and therefore the references and language used will be congruent with that specific translation. God bless you all and all glory to our awesome and loving Lord God. I pray that this subject of the awesome gift that is The Scriptures strengthens your faith and reverence for God as it did mine.

The Angel of The Lord Passages​

Genesis 16:7, 9, 10, 11 (The Angel of The Lord)

Genesis 17:1 (The Lord)

Genesis 18:1 (The Lord)

Genesis 21:17 (The Angel of God) [Here God hears and the Angel of God responds, which again argues against an accretion (from literally Genesis it argues against it lol)]

Genesis 22:11, 15 (The Angel of The Lord) [Genesis 22:12 He calls Himself God]

Genesis 31:11-13 (The Angel of God) [He calls Himself God here again]

Exodus 3:2-6 (The Angel of The Lord) [He Calls Himself God here again]

Exodus 14:19 (The Angel of God)

Exodus 13:21 (The Lord, though this is an Angel according to Numbers 20:16, so the same being)

Exodus 14:19 (The angel of God, Cross reference: Ex 13:21, Num 20:16, 1 Cor 10:1-4)

Exodus 23:20-21 (An Angel, but “my name is in Him”)

Exodus 23:20-23 (an Angel, My Angel)

Exodus 32:34 (My Angel)

Numbers 22: 22-27, 31-35 (The Angel of The Lord)

Joshua 5:13-15 (Commander of The Army of The Lord)

Judges 2:1, 4 (The Angel of The Lord)

Judges 5:23 (the angel of the Lord)

Judges 6:11-12, 21-22 (The Angel of The Lord)

Judges 6:20 (The Angel of God)

Judges 13:3, 13, 15-18, 20-21 (The Angel of The Lord)

Judges 13:6, 18 (Man of God, Manoah was confused as evidenced by 13:16) [Isa 9:6 cross reference to the name which prophesies about our Saviour: Wonderful]

Judges 13:9 (The Angel of God)

2 Samuel 24:16 (the angel of the Lord)

1 Kings 19:17 (The angel of the Lord)

2 Kings 1:3 (the angel of the Lord)

2 Kings 1:15 (The angel of the Lord)

2 Kings 19:35 (the Angel of The Lord)

1 Chronicles 21:12, 15, 16, 18, 27, 30 (the angel of the Lord, v.27 the angel)

2 Chronicles 32:21 (an angel, it’s The Angel of The Lord: 2 Kings 19:35)

Isaiah 37:36 (the angel of the Lord)

Isaiah 63:9 (the angel of His presence)

Zechariah 1:11-12 (The Angel of The Lord) (v.12 distinctly Trinitarian like Christ’s baptism and His prayers, The Angel of The Lord who is Elohim asks Elohim a question)

Zechariah 3:1, 5-7 (The Angel of The Lord) (v.7 is Trinitarian as The angel of The Lord who is Elohim speaks for Elohim as if He is distinct)

Zechariah 12:8 (The Angel of The Lord) [Wow what an awesome prophecy] [This also proves that the Israelites saw Him as distinct, just like they did in judges with Manoah. So it can’t be argued as an accretion]

Potential passages​

Genesis 24:7 (His Angel, the Angel is being sent from God. The Son was sent too.)

Genesis 32:30 (Genesis 32:29 cross reference Judges 13:18? “Why do you ask my name?”)

Genesis 48:15-16 (The Angel is equated with God “Redeemed him from all evil”)

Numbers 20:16 (The Angel here is the being who was called the Lord in Exodus 13:21)

Daniel 3:25

Daniel 6:22

Mentions of The Angel of The Lord but not Christophanies/Theophanies​

Psalm 34:7 (The angel of the Lord)

Psalm 35:5 (the angel of the Lord)

Psalm 35:6 (the angel of The Lord)

Miscellaneous
​

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 [Paul states here explicitly that the being who followed the Israelites in Exodus was Christ]

• V. 1 reference b (Exodus 13:21)
• V. 4 reference a (Exodus 17:6)

I strongly suggest you the book "Angelomorphic Christology" by Charles A. Gieschen