"The Left Has Given Up on Ordinary Americans"

RoBo1988

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"The way the elites think of the economy is very related to green ideology. They picture an economy in which the top 20 per cent keeps making over $100,000 a year and lives in nice neighbourhoods and nice cities. All production is done in China. All service-industry jobs are performed by slave-wage Venezuelans brought in by cartels. And everybody making under $100,000 a year – who used to be the working class – is on universal basic income. That’s the view that a lot of so-called progressives consciously or unconsciously have of their ideal economic system."- Batya Ungar-Sargon, on how the working classes are being sacrificed to elite virtue-signalling


Ms. Ungar-Sargon is not a right-wing Republican. She is an editor at Newsweek, also not a right-wing publication. From what I see in the political class, she is correct, and it's not necessarily just a Democrat view. Many Republicans have sold us down the river as well.
 

Valletta

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"The way the elites think of the economy is very related to green ideology. They picture an economy in which the top 20 per cent keeps making over $100,000 a year and lives in nice neighbourhoods and nice cities. All production is done in China. All service-industry jobs are performed by slave-wage Venezuelans brought in by cartels. And everybody making under $100,000 a year – who used to be the working class – is on universal basic income. That’s the view that a lot of so-called progressives consciously or unconsciously have of their ideal economic system."- Batya Ungar-Sargon, on how the working classes are being sacrificed to elite virtue-signalling


Ms. Ungar-Sargon is not a right-wing Republican. She is an editor at Newsweek, also not a right-wing publication. From what I see in the political class, she is correct, and it's not necessarily just a Democrat view. Many Republicans have sold us down the river as well.
A refreshing article. "Elitism" sums it up.
 
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RoBo1988

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Yarddog

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"The way the elites think of the economy is very related to green ideology. They picture an economy in which the top 20 per cent keeps making over $100,000 a year and lives in nice neighbourhoods and nice cities. All production is done in China. All service-industry jobs are performed by slave-wage Venezuelans brought in by cartels. And everybody making under $100,000 a year – who used to be the working class – is on universal basic income. That’s the view that a lot of so-called progressives consciously or unconsciously have of their ideal economic system."- Batya Ungar-Sargon, on how the working classes are being sacrificed to elite virtue-signalling


Ms. Ungar-Sargon is not a right-wing Republican. She is an editor at Newsweek, also not a right-wing publication. From what I see in the political class, she is correct, and it's not necessarily just a Democrat view. Many Republicans have sold us down the river as well.
Just what is an ordinary American? From where I sit, the right left the working class behind years ago.
 
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iluvatar5150

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"The way the elites think of the economy is very related to green ideology. They picture an economy in which the top 20 per cent keeps making over $100,000 a year and lives in nice neighbourhoods and nice cities. All production is done in China. All service-industry jobs are performed by slave-wage Venezuelans brought in by cartels. And everybody making under $100,000 a year – who used to be the working class – is on universal basic income. That’s the view that a lot of so-called progressives consciously or unconsciously have of their ideal economic system."- Batya Ungar-Sargon, on how the working classes are being sacrificed to elite virtue-signalling


Ms. Ungar-Sargon is not a right-wing Republican. She is an editor at Newsweek, also not a right-wing publication. From what I see in the political class, she is correct, and it's not necessarily just a Democrat view. Many Republicans have sold us down the river as well.

She's not a right-wing Republican, but from what I can gather, she's not a lib, either. She seems to be more in the newer camp of angry contrarians who like to adopt right-wing talking points and complain about the left while trying to convince themselves that they're not somewhere on the right.

Some of her points (I only read the excerpt, I didn't listen to the podcast) are just straight up nonsense:

Brendan O’Neill: Whenever you talk about the working class nowadays, someone will accuse you of making a racist dog-whistle. Why are questions of class and economic inequality being dismissed in this way?

Batya Ungar-Sargon: I consider myself a left-wing populist. Routinely, people on the left would say that I’m a conservative and that the points I make are conservative talking points. I always laughed at this because, first of all, I don’t think ‘conservative’ is an insult. People expect you to act like somebody just called you fat.

The other point is that it’s basically an admission that caring about class is now a right-wing position, and that being on the left no longer means caring about class.

I mean... What?!? Has anybody told Bernie Sanders about this? Between UBI, unionization efforts, welfare benefits, taxation, student debt, and a host of other issues, the left talks about class all the time. Saying that being on the left no longer means caring about class is like saying that being on the right no longer means caring about abortion. It's ludicrous. Who is shutting down discussions about class other than people on the right?

You see this a lot in the media as well. They take their unionising very seriously at these knowledge-industry jobs, where the average pay is $100,000 per year. I’m not saying those jobs shouldn’t be unionised, but don’t tell me you’re the proletariat if you sit behind a desk and make $100,000 a year. You’re part of the elites,

No, $100k/yr at a media outlet in a major city, where rent on a small apartment can easily top $2k/mo, is very much "middle class." The construction workers who built the office make at least that much and nobody is calling the electricians or iron workers "elite." That's an order of magnitude removed from being any form of economic elite.

While it's true the left has abandoned ordinary Americans, what's missed is that the left thinks they are ordinary Americans.
They ARE ordinary Americans. We ARE ordinary Americans. Over half of the country votes for Democrats. Over 80% of the country lives in urban areas. If anybody is an outlier, it's rural conservatives.
 
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Yarddog

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While it's true the left has abandoned ordinary Americans, what's missed is that the left thinks they are ordinary Americans.
What is an ordinary American?
 
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Tuur

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What is an ordinary American?
Us ordinary Americans have ordinary jobs, make ordinary wages, and usually live ordinary lives. Most of us are "blue collar" workers. We aren't obsessed with pronouns, know what men and women are, and think you should judge a person by their own deeds and not those of their ancestors or by the color of their skin. Ordinary American think you should have a say in the education of their children.

Now, which of these does today's Left support?
 
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RoBo1988

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Another article along the same lines:
From that article:
"In the olden days, you didn’t need a college degree to get a real job. You took an IQ test to get a job. In Griggs v. Duke Power Co, the far left wing Supreme Court all but outlawed these tests.
Employers thus started to required university degrees for jobs that a smart and ambitious 19 year old could have begun learning via on-the-job training and mentorship."


Between UBI, unionization efforts, welfare benefits, taxation, student debt, and a host of other issues, the left talks about class all the time
None of those things benefit American jobs, and productivity. UBI will discourage working-The "ordinary American" is not looking for handouts.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Another article along the same lines:
From that article:
"In the olden days, you didn’t need a college degree to get a real job. You took an IQ test to get a job. In Griggs v. Duke Power Co, the far left wing Supreme Court all but outlawed these tests.
Employers thus started to required university degrees for jobs that a smart and ambitious 19 year old could have begun learning via on-the-job training and mentorship."

That's what Mike Cernovich's writing looks like? I'd heard the name before and maybe seen a couple video clips, but that whole piece was a bunch of incoherent nonsense. Why does anybody take this guy seriously?

While he alludes to some legitimate problems, he neither identifies nor clearly articulates the actual problems or their solutions, instead preferring to blame the lack of IQ tests in hiring processes.


None of those things benefit American jobs, and productivity. UBI will discourage working-

That's nice. That's not the point I was making, which was about the claim that it's not okay to talk about class among the left.

The "ordinary American" is not looking for handouts.

Baloney. Between the mortgage interest deduction, caps on real estate assessment growth, welfare benefits, tax exemptions for churches, low long term capital gains taxes, and various business "incentives", the "ordinary American" is absolutely looking for a handout.
 
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RoBo1988

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Baloney. Between the mortgage interest deduction, caps on real estate assessment growth, welfare benefits, tax exemptions for churches, low long term capital gains taxes, and various business "incentives", the "ordinary American" is absolutely looking for a handout.
If none of those things listed existed, the "ordinary American" would still go to work. It's just the rules we must play by. If the government blows money by the trillions, I suppose I should try to get a few hundred of mine back. Most in government (left or right) "have never went to work on Monday, or made payroll on Friday" (H/T to former Democrat Senator Blanche Lincoln; quote in italics), but they allow us to keep a couple pennies- how benevolent of them :rolleyes:
 
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iluvatar5150

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If none of those things listed existed, the "ordinary American" would still go to work. It's just the rules we must play by. If the government blows money by the trillions, I suppose I should try to get a few hundred of mine back.

I'm glad to see that you're among us ordinary folk looking for handouts.

Most in government (left or right) "have never went to work on Monday, or made payroll on Friday"

You don't think people in government "[go] to work on Monday"? What is it you think they do?
 
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Yarddog

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Us ordinary Americans have ordinary jobs, make ordinary wages, and usually live ordinary lives. Most of us are "blue collar" workers. We aren't obsessed with pronouns, know what men and women are, and think you should judge a person by their own deeds and not those of their ancestors or by the color of their skin. Ordinary American think you should have a say in the education of their children.

Now, which of these does today's Left support?
All of them.
 
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What is an ordinary American?

Indeed. I think there hasn't been honest discussion about class and ethnicity in the US in some time. For too long, white, upper-middle class people have been privileged above all other voices.

America is an extremely diverse country. The only difference now is that some people insist we stop pretending we are all a "melting pot" of homogeneity.
 
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RoBo1988

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Here's some of that "support":

I'm glad to see that you're among us ordinary folk looking for handouts.
Funny. Those who want a break from taxes paid, are "looking for a handout" in your view.
You don't think people in government "[go] to work on Monday"? What is it you think they do?
Speaking of politicians in general, not civil servants: Sen. Lincoln said that "No one in this (Obama) administration, knows what it means to go to work on Monday, or make payroll on Friday" and I would say she's pretty much on the mark, regardless of who's administration it is .
 
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rturner76

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Many Republicans have sold us down the river as well.
That's the thing. Politics are politics and both sides want to get whatever they can while they are in office. In the past Democrats supported unions and farms. Then they wanted to pass many regulations that would undermine the businesses that the unions depend on for labor. I think it would be better if we didn't have just two parties always at war. I think it would be better if we were like most other countries and have multiple parties. That way you can vote for what you agree with rather than shirking your own values on one hand but sticking with the party because it's better than the one other party available. Spread the vote out a bit instead of just heads or tails when voting
 
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RoBo1988

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I think it would be better if we didn't have just two parties always at war.
I don't think they really are at war with each other. They only do that for the television cameras. The closest thing to a political war was when the 20 held out to keep McCarthy from the Speaker coronation. I think former MN Governor Jesse Ventura had it right when he said "Two parties by day, one big party at night"
I think it would be better if we were like most other countries and have multiple parties.
I agree. However, neither Team Blue or Team Red want that. They made the "mistake" of allowing Ross Perot into the debates. Never again.
 
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