Ye olde anti-vaxxers ...

[RestoreTheJoy]

Even the new variants? Hmmm...

"The researchers also compared reinfection rates among people who had once had a confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and were still unvaccinated and people who had once had the infection and had also received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

Results showed that the unvaccinated group was twice as likely to contract the infection again, compared with those who had received one dose of the vaccine."​

Protection against Delta: Comparing vaccines and natural immunity


Not really.

Even the new variants? Hmmm...

"The researchers also compared reinfection rates among people who had once had a confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and were still unvaccinated and people who had once had the infection and had also received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

Results showed that the unvaccinated group was twice as likely to contract the infection again, compared with those who had received one dose of the vaccine."​

Protection against Delta: Comparing vaccines and natural immunity


Not really.

Numbers? That's a really vague statement without any stats at all.

Not to mention this vague piece also includes this indicating the vaccinated were 13X more likely to get the virus than those who had recovered.

The analysis indicated that people who had never had the infection and received a vaccine in January or February of 2021 were up to 13 times more likely to contract the virus than people who had already had the infection.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Interesting stat from the CDC regarding shingles: Shingles vaccination among adults aged 60 and over increased from 6.7% in 2008 to 34.5% in 2018.

Gee, what happened in those 10 years when the incidence nearly quadrupled? Hmmm.

Shingles was really rare in adults when I was growing up and everybody had chicken pox (or exposure). Everybody.

I would not know. I don't think that one could get shingles from the vaccine, if that is where you are headed. I am at the age where I should get that vaccine since I did have the chicken pox when I was young. In other words, I ain't no spring chicken. I would think that the increase would be due to an increase in awareness by both the general public and the medical community of shingles and how easily they can be avoided. Why take the risk?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Most interesting:

The previous definitions could have been “interpreted to mean that vaccines were 100% effective, which has never been the case for any vaccine, so the current definition is more transparent, and also describes the ways in which vaccines can be administered,” the spokesperson said.​

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article254111268.html#storylink=cpy

It is cool to read the context.
But since it is clear that 'natural immunity' is not perfect, either, will you folks be honest and transparent and update your claims as well?

Doubt it.

Yeah, that "reasoning" for the redefinitions is laugh-out-loud funny. Perhaps it works on some, but not those used to parsing research.

No immunity is perfect for all people, especially vulnerable ones. People are always going to be more at risk if they have comorbidities.

But the immune system that God created has worked pretty darn well overall and that is being proven yet again.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Let me guess - you "do your own research"?

Um, I read news items that are routinely published - the relevant issue here with this topic. Do you not? You should try it.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I would not know. I don't think that one could get shingles from the vaccine, if that is where you are headed. I am at the age where I should get that vaccine since I did have the chicken pox when I was young. In other words, I ain't no spring chicken. I would think that the increase would be due to an increase in awareness by both the general public and the medical community of shingles and how easily they can be avoided. Why take the risk?

Really? You believe that that shingles QUADRUPLED based on "awareness"? I don't think so. Pretty much anyone goes to be treated if they get a bad rash.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Numbers? That's a really vague statement without any stats at all.

Not to mention this vague piece also includes this indicating the vaccinated were 13X more likely to get the virus than those who had recovered.

The analysis indicated that people who had never had the infection and received a vaccine in January or February of 2021 were up to 13 times more likely to contract the virus than people who had already had the infection.

Those stats are a bit weird since they seem to deal with people that only had one dose of the vaccine rather than two. Here is a bit more of the quote in context (bolding is mine):

"The analysis indicated that people who had never had the infection and received a vaccine in January or February of 2021 were up to 13 times more likely to contract the virus than people who had already had the infection.

The researchers also compared reinfection rates among people who had once had a confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and were still unvaccinated and people who had once had the infection and had also received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

Results showed that the unvaccinated group was twice as likely to contract the infection again, compared with those who had received one dose of the vaccine.

The findings appear to indicate increased protection from natural immunity over vaccine-conferred immunity. This may be due to a more extensive immune response to the SARS-CoV-2 proteins, compared with the immune activation provided by the vaccine, the researchers suggest."

I can understand that naturally acquired immunity (people that had the virus and recovered) may be stronger than the vaccine. But that is a very expensive way to acquire an immunity. Luckily I have both. I had Covid19 and recovered and still got immunized. I have found articles that state that that appears to give even stronger resistance to reinfection. I had a "light" case. I had a very high fever and very bad muscle aches for a few days and that was it. I was rather lucky.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Really? You believe that that shingles QUADRUPLED based on "awareness"? I don't think so. Pretty much anyone goes to be treated if they get a bad rash.

I am sorry, but you just demonstrated that you do not know what you are talking about. The vaccine does no good if you do get shingles. It is too late then. My explanation makes far more sense than yours does. Being aware of a problem and a very easy fix is most likely the cause of the increase in vaccinations. It is really that simple.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Those stats are a bit weird since they seem to deal with people that only had one dose of the vaccine rather than two. Here is a bit more of the quote in context (bolding is mine):

"The analysis indicated that people who had never had the infection and received a vaccine in January or February of 2021 were up to 13 times more likely to contract the virus than people who had already had the infection.

The researchers also compared reinfection rates among people who had once had a confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection and were still unvaccinated and people who had once had the infection and had also received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.

Results showed that the unvaccinated group was twice as likely to contract the infection again, compared with those who had received one dose of the vaccine.

The findings appear to indicate increased protection from natural immunity over vaccine-conferred immunity. This may be due to a more extensive immune response to the SARS-CoV-2 proteins, compared with the immune activation provided by the vaccine, the researchers suggest."

I can understand that naturally acquired immunity (people that had the virus and recovered) may be stronger than the vaccine. But that is a very expensive way to acquire an immunity. Luckily I have both. I had Covid19 and recovered and still got immunized. I have found articles that state that that appears to give even stronger resistance to reinfection. I had a "light" case. I had a very high fever and very bad muscle aches for a few days and that was it. I was rather lucky.

How many? There are zero numbers.

Is this millions of people? Hundreds? Tens? I mean if four people get the virus, 1 with vaccine and three without, one can twist that into saying that one is 75% more likely to get the virus if unvaccinated. But the number is statistically irrelevant.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Okay, a little Google searching can answer one's questions. There appear to be several reasons that the numbers of shingles vaccines are up. For one thing some Medicare plans cover the cost today. It is a rather expensive vaccine with two doses retailing at over $300.00. If one has Medicare D one is covered. The second is that in 2017 the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) recommended that everyone over 50 got the vaccination. By the way, that would come under the heading of "awareness".

Products - Data Briefs - Number 370- July 2020

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

I am sorry, but you just demonstrated that you do not know what you are talking about. The vaccine does no good if you do get shingles. It is too late then. My explanation makes far more sense than yours does. Being aware of a problem and a very easy fix is most likely the cause of the increase in vaccinations. It is really that simple.

You missed the point. The person would see a doctor regardless for a bad rash, and then it is counted in the number of shingles cases.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How many? There are zero numbers.

Is this millions of people? Hundreds? Tens? I mean if four people get the virus, 1 with vaccine and three without, one can twist that into saying that one is 75% more likely to get the virus if unvaccinated. But the number is statistically irrelevant.

Your question is not clear. What are you specifically asking about?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You missed the point. The person would see a doctor regardless for a bad rash, and then it is counted in the number of shingles cases.

No. it would not. Why do you think that doctors are incompetent?

You were wondering why they number of vaccinations went up. It does not appear to have anything to do with number of cases reported.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Yep, vaccine escape. Exactly was was expected. If the unvaccinated are more susceptible, it is odd that what is being reported is that most of the cases in the US are indeed vaccinated, and many boosted.

As has already been explained, when most of the population is vaccinated, that is what you'd expect.

"Most of the 43 people known to have been infected with the Omicron variant of coronavirus in the United STates had mild symptoms, but most had been vaccinated and 14 of them had already had booster doses, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Friday."

The Omicron variant is significantly different from the previous ones - over 30 mutations, many in the spike protein, so it has a much higher level of vaccine escape. But two doses of vaccine appear to give good protection against severe illness, and adding a booster takes it up to around 75% protection against infection.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

But the immune system that God created has worked pretty darn well overall and that is being proven yet again.

That's why giving it a head start with vaccines is first choice and giving antivirals is second choice.

 

[Lost4words]

I been refused the vaccine!!!

The vet said i had too many legs!!

 

[tas8831]

Um, I read news items that are routinely published - the relevant issue here with this topic. Do you not? You should try it.

Um... I read the ACTUAL PAPERS when I can or at least scientific analyses of claims rather than news items - most likely on right-wing sources that you blindly trust. Your non-reviewed Israeli study seemed to have a lot of problems with it, but even if it didn't, it is from August.

AAAS

Lots of cautions therein. Of course, this was from August, too. A lot can happen in 3 months with so much research being done.

From Sept. 20:

"Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months. "
"One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone."​

From November 5:

"Among COVID-19–like illness hospitalizations among adults aged ≥18 years whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, the adjusted odds of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection were 5.49-fold higher than the odds among fully vaccinated recipients of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine who had no previous documented infection (95% confidence interval = 2.75–10.99)."​

But you keep clinging to that troubled Israeli study from early August... or rather, news stories about it...

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

The Omicron variant is significantly different from the previous ones - over 30 mutations, many in the spike protein, so it has a much higher level of vaccine escape. But two doses of vaccine appear to give good protection against severe illness, and adding a booster takes it up to around 75% protection against infection.

Just for argument's sake, let's assume your assertion here is correct. If so, then there is nothing to worry about. Everyone can go about his life.

However, the fear-churners in the Left wing media have ramped up fear to full speed. President Biden just told the country this will be a "winter of severe illness and death" (as opposed to last year's "dark winter").

The vaccinated are getting Omicron, not the unvaccinated, at this point. They closed down Cornell University last week because of 900 cases among VACCINATED students. Anyone, regardless of number of vaccines, can contract the virus and spread it.

So which is it? Either one does have protection against the variant if vaccinated or one does not? It appears that the cases are growing in the vaccinated.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

As has already been explained, when most of the population is vaccinated, that is what you'd expect.


The Omicron variant is significantly different from the previous ones - over 30 mutations, many in the spike protein, so it has a much higher level of vaccine escape. But two doses of vaccine appear to give good protection against severe illness, and adding a booster takes it up to around 75% protection against infection.

No. Cornell was fully vaccinated and got approximately 900 cases. No one "expected" that. The narrative just keeps changing.

First we were fully vaccinated and protected. Whoops. Not true.

Then we were fully vaccinated and with a booster and protected. Whoops. Not true.

Instead of doubling down, let's just admit that this experiment didn't work.

 

[Lost4words]

If everyone in the world was vaccinated people would still be getting Covid. I guess it depends if they would still get seriously ill or not.

I for one am not interested in getting jabbed.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Um... I read the ACTUAL PAPERS when I can or at least scientific analyses of claims rather than news items - most likely on right-wing sources that you blindly trust. Your non-reviewed Israeli study seemed to have a lot of problems with it, but even if it didn't, it is from August.

AAAS

Lots of cautions therein. Of course, this was from August, too. A lot can happen in 3 months with so much research being done.

From Sept. 20:

"Natural immunity can decay within about 90 days. Immunity from COVID-19 vaccines has been shown to last longer. Both Pfizer and Moderna reported strong vaccine protection for at least six months. "
"One study compared natural immunity alone to natural immunity plus vaccination. They found that, after infection, unvaccinated people are 2.34 times likelier to get COVID-19 again, compared to fully vaccinated people. So vaccinated people (after infection) have half the risk of reinfection than people relying on natural immunity alone."​

From November 5:

"Among COVID-19–like illness hospitalizations among adults aged ≥18 years whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, the adjusted odds of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection were 5.49-fold higher than the odds among fully vaccinated recipients of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine who had no previous documented infection (95% confidence interval = 2.75–10.99)."​

But you keep clinging to that troubled Israeli study from early August... or rather, news stories about it...

I responded to your rude and snarky comment, which you conveniently excised here:

You:
Let me guess - you "do your own research"?

Me: Um, I read news items that are routinely published - the relevant issue here with this topic. Do you not? You should try it.

In reality, if you read my posts at all, I source all data, and it is sourced from either direct scientific sources or sometimes news sources that have summarized the data. Do not misrepresent me in this fashion.

Secondly, please report some NUMBERS of how many people - vaccinated or not - who are getting Covid legitimately twice (and not still simply showing some fragments of virus on a pcr test, perhaps from a previous infection). No one is reporting numbers and everyone is conflating "died with covid" with "died FROM covid". In reality less than 2% of the population has died, nearly all in higher risk groups like the elderly and those with co-morbidities.

Omicron seems to be infecting the vaccinated, from all reports.