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A_Thinker

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From ... The Long View: Ye Olde Anti-Vaxxers

"In March 1885, a train from Chicago arrived at Bonaventure Station in Montréal with a particularly dangerous passenger: smallpox. George Longley, train conductor, feverish and boiling with pustules, found a bed and medical care at the Hôtel-Dieu. Longley recovered, but not before a laundry-maid named Pélagie Robichaud caught the disease from his contaminated linens. She died on April 2nd. Her sister soon followed. By late summer, smallpox was everywhere. In November, when the epidemic finally burnt itself out, nearly two percent of Montréal’s population had been killed, and many more had been blinded and scarred. Most of the victims were children.

The vaccine first tested and described by Edward Jenner in 1796 was by now nearly a century old, widespread and well-established. Why did Montréal remain so vulnerable to a reliably preventable sickness with fatality rates of up to 40 percent? The answer is that there was another epidemic taking hold: in Montréal, an outbreak of hesitancy was outpacing the disease. Resistance to vaccination was particularly pronounced in the city’s east, a zone inhabited predominantly by typically poorer French Canadians – at the end of the year, French Canadians would make up 90 percent of the dead."
 
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Mayflower1

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I take my second dose today... When you are surrounded by two hundred or so loved ones who are anti vax, it is easy to be hesitant. I do not know the right answer here. I'm doing what I sense is right. I've watched it the last six months since it has been out and now it is FDA approved. There is wisdom in waiting. This isn't small pox, but a lot of people have been effected. I just think some of the discussions and things online are so harmful in people trying to decide. Things like this are good to think about, but so many Christians are not showing proper love and understanding. No one would intentionally put other peoples' lives in danger. But there is a lot of information out there.
 
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Nithavela

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I take my second dose today... When you are surrounded by two hundred or so loved ones who are anti vax, it is easy to be hesitant. I do not know the right answer here. I'm doing what I sense is right. I've watched it the last six months since it has been out and now it is FDA approved. There is wisdom in waiting. This isn't small pox, but a lot of people have been effected. I just think some of the discussions and things online are so harmful in people trying to decide. Things like this are good to think about, but so many Christians are not showing proper love and understanding. No one would intentionally put other peoples' lives in danger. But there is a lot of information out there.
I congratulate you on doing what you think is right after observing all the evidence.

While many anti-vaccination people CLAIM to be for individual choice and informed consent, they get really irritated when that choice is not the same they subscribe to.

I hope there is no fallout to your personal relationships because of this.
 
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partinobodycular

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I would be very surprised if there's not a very strong correlation between anti-vaxxers and pro-gun advocates, because they both have the same attitude. It's an attitude of, if I have to make a choice between my personal freedom and innocent people dying... then let them die.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Not quite so dramatic as smallpox, but more recently there have been outbreaks of measles. It tends to happen (naturally) in communities with lower vaccination rates, such as among orthodox Jews, the Amish, and the hippy-dippy liberal granola-eaters of Marin County, California.

Fortunately, these outbreaks cause communities to reconsider their stance. Since that story above from 2015, the measles vaccination rate for kindergarteners in Marin County has risen to 94%, the highest ever. "The lowest rate recorded in Marin was in 2011 at 77.9 percent."
 
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Mayflower1

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I congratulate you on doing what you think is right after observing all the evidence.

While many anti-vaccination people CLAIM to be for individual choice and informed consent, they get really irritated when that choice is not the same they subscribe to.

I hope there is no fallout to your personal relationships because of this.

I'm mostly quiet about it, but my husband knows. He is anti vax. I haven't really been strong either way about it. I trust God with this, and pray that everyone has the wisdom to make the right decisions in these these hard times. It isn't as simple as turning on the news.
 
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Mayflower1

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I would be very surprised if there's not a very strong correlation between anti-vaxxers and pro-gun advocates, because they both have the same attitude. It's an attitude of, if I have to make a choice between my personal freedom and innocent people dying... then let them die.

My church for the most part doesn't take any vaccination or medication. They are word of faith. And God is Jehovah Rapha. And I tell you I hardly see anyone sick at my church. Healthiest group of people you have ever seen. I've been coming here a year. Hope it rubs off. :D But not judging peoples' intentions I think is important. You don't know.

Matthew 7:1-2

1Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again
 
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Nithavela

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My church for the most part doesn't take any vaccination or medication. They are word of faith. And God is Jehovah Rapha. And I tell you I hardly see anyone sick at my church. Healthiest group of people you have ever seen. I've been coming here a year. Hope it rubs off. :D But not judging peoples' intentions I think is important. You don't know.

Matthew 7:1-2

1Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again
Religion has a way of keeping people healthy. It not only helps keeping someone in a stress-free state of mind and well connected in a community that helps each other (extremely important for mental health), but it also encourages some healthy lifestyle choices, like not overeating, drinking alcohol in moderation and staying away from drugs.
 
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partinobodycular

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My church for the most part doesn't take any vaccination or medication. They are word of faith. And God is Jehovah Rapha. And I tell you I hardly see anyone sick at my church. Healthiest group of people you have ever seen. I've been coming here a year. Hope it rubs off. :D But not judging peoples' intentions I think is important. You don't know.
The problem is that when we use anecdotal evidence, people tend to see what they wanna see. Not that they don't do that anyway. It's just that when relying on anecdotal evidence you have to be particularly careful.

It's not that I'm judging people's intentions, their intentions may be perfectly innocent, but the effect ends up being the same, their choices are costing innocent people their lives. Intentionally or not, they're killing people. They need to realize that, and hence the harsh nature of my post. People need to take a good hard look at what they're doing. It may not seem as if your actions matter all that much, but what you choose to do has consequences. Because you're not the only one making that choice. There are millions of other people using the exact same excuse, that what I do doesn't matter all that much, but it does.
 
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Mayflower1

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The problem is that when we use anecdotal evidence, people tend to see what they wanna see. Not that they don't do that anyway. It's just that when relying on anecdotal evidence you have to be particularly careful.

It's not that I'm judging people's intentions, their intentions may be perfectly innocent, but the effect ends up being the same, their choices are costing innocent people their lives. Intentionally or not, they're killing people. They need to realize that, and hence the harsh nature of my post. People need to take a good hard look at what they're doing. It may not seem as if your actions matter all that much, but what you choose to do has consequences. Because you're not the only one making that choice. There are millions of other people using the exact same excuse, that what I do doesn't matter all that much, but it does.

I understand some of it. I would say to just remember honey works better then harsh words. There are still a hundred million maybe in America alone who see things completely different.

Proverbs 15:1

A soft answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This article really put words to how I have felt about the whole thing.

What Jesus Might Say to His Followers Regarding Covid-19 Vaccination - Kyle McNutt

These are hard times, but am thankful we are not in something like the small pox era. God does use science too. And hopefully I am right and peoples' fears are not true about the vaccine. I think for the majority it is safe though and beneficial... Had my second dose yesterday and no side effects or anything. Praise God for that.
 
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pitabread

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and pray that everyone has the wisdom to make the right decisions in these these hard times.

That clearly hasn't been the case. Which is why things like mask mandates, vaccine mandates, etc are necessary.
 
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tas8831

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My church for the most part doesn't take any vaccination or medication. They are word of faith. And God is Jehovah Rapha. And I tell you I hardly see anyone sick at my church. Healthiest group of people you have ever seen. I've been coming here a year. Hope it rubs off. :D But not judging peoples' intentions I think is important. You don't know.

Years ago when I lived in Michigan, the priest (not sure if that was his 'rank' - the guy who ran it) in charge of the local Catholic School used to be allowed to write an Op-Ed in the local paper every year, basically fishing for new cash cows I mean, students. He would write about how there were no problems at his school like violence, drugs, teen sex, etc., all because of the God-based instruction students received there. Every year.
I ended up working with several people later that had attended the school. Over time, I learned that 1. the school did not accept 'troubled' teens; 2. did not accept students from families too poor to pay tuition - because THOSE people are trouble makers!; 3. EXPELLED students caught or suspected of drinking or drug use; 4. EXPELLED girls that were pregnant.
No problem when you either prevent a cross-section of actual society in your doors or just kick them out if they don't fit your ideals.

But hey - the ones that remained? No druggies, trouble makers, drinkers, or 'dirty' people in the bunch!
 
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Strathos

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Being hesitant about a vaccine is one thing. I probably wouldn't have volunteered to be one of the first ones to test it, or even one of the first ones to take it once it was made available to the public. But after seeing the results in just a few months, the decision was easy. I'm not going to worry about some mysterious possible side effect 5 years down the road or whatever.

BTW, my uncle was actually in the test group for one of the early vaccines. He got it in mid-2020, and is doing fine.
 
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ripple the car

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I would be very surprised if there's not a very strong correlation between anti-vaxxers and pro-gun advocates, because they both have the same attitude. It's an attitude of, if I have to make a choice between my personal freedom and innocent people dying... then let them die.

Wrong. And wrong. And yet again, we see people pick up and run with pejorative, polarizing slang terms popularized by social media. Woot.

I am in favor of stricter gun control laws. I am in favor of anyone who wants this vaccine having access to it. For free. I am in favor of people being able to make a judgment call as to whether or not they get vaccinated. I am not against vaccinations in general; but the media tenor of this entire pandemic has been weird, and inexplicably shrill.

I have worked in this pandemic from day one as a grocery store clerk with nothing but a cloth face mask and hand sanitizer. So that folks could get their food delivered contact-free. Woot. Which is kind of a misnomer, but oh, well. I have likely contracted this thing at least twice. We all have. We should have a say as to whether we accept a vaccine for something we’ve been working in and with and around daily.

And people who want the vaccine should feel free to get it without being guilt-tripped that they’re taking the Mark of the Beast so their elderly mother doesn’t die of Covid. Sigh.

Something is going on here, I get it. I agree. Let’s be prayerful, careful, vigilant, respect each other’s choices, and understand that Christ has neither commanded us to get this vaccine, nor commanded us to not get this vaccine.
 
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keith99

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Years ago when I lived in Michigan, the priest (not sure if that was his 'rank' - the guy who ran it) in charge of the local Catholic School used to be allowed to write an Op-Ed in the local paper every year, basically fishing for new cash cows I mean, students. He would write about how there were no problems at his school like violence, drugs, teen sex, etc., all because of the God-based instruction students received there. Every year.
I ended up working with several people later that had attended the school. Over time, I learned that 1. the school did not accept 'troubled' teens; 2. did not accept students from families too poor to pay tuition - because THOSE people are trouble makers!; 3. EXPELLED students caught or suspected of drinking or drug use; 4. EXPELLED girls that were pregnant.
No problem when you either prevent a cross-section of actual society in your doors or just kick them out if they don't fit your ideals.

But hey - the ones that remained? No druggies, trouble makers, drinkers, or 'dirty' people in the bunch!

Or at least none careless enough to get caught that didn't have parents powerful enough to cover up for them.
 
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ripple the car

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I understand some of it. I would say to just remember honey works better then harsh words. There are still a hundred million maybe in America alone who see things completely different.

Proverbs 15:1

A soft answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This article really put words to how I have felt about the whole thing.

What Jesus Might Say to His Followers Regarding Covid-19 Vaccination - Kyle McNutt

These are hard times, but am thankful we are not in something like the small pox era. God does use science too. And hopefully I am right and peoples' fears are not true about the vaccine. I think for the majority it is safe though and beneficial... Had my second dose yesterday and no side effects or anything. Praise God for that.
Excellent response. Bless you.

And everybody should read the article she linked to. It is awesome.
 
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Mayflower1

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Years ago when I lived in Michigan, the priest (not sure if that was his 'rank' - the guy who ran it) in charge of the local Catholic School used to be allowed to write an Op-Ed in the local paper every year, basically fishing for new cash cows I mean, students. He would write about how there were no problems at his school like violence, drugs, teen sex, etc., all because of the God-based instruction students received there. Every year.
I ended up working with several people later that had attended the school. Over time, I learned that 1. the school did not accept 'troubled' teens; 2. did not accept students from families too poor to pay tuition - because THOSE people are trouble makers!; 3. EXPELLED students caught or suspected of drinking or drug use; 4. EXPELLED girls that were pregnant.
No problem when you either prevent a cross-section of actual society in your doors or just kick them out if they don't fit your ideals.

But hey - the ones that remained? No druggies, trouble makers, drinkers, or 'dirty' people in the bunch!

Think I am missing what you want to get across. That is really sad.
 
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partinobodycular

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I would be very surprised if there's not a very strong correlation between anti-vaxxers and pro-gun advocates,

Wrong. And wrong... I am in favor of stricter gun control laws. I am in favor of anyone who wants this vaccine having access to it. For free. I am in favor of people being able to make a judgment call as to whether or not they get vaccinated.

So in your case at least, the correlation holds. You're pro gun ownership, and anti vaccination mandates.

In other words, people should be allowed to make their own choices, even if it means that innocent people have to die.

But let me guess, you're also anti-abortion. So you're only willing to push that free choice argument so far. I guess the lives of some innocent people matter and some don't.
 
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