Ceallaigh

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I'm pro gun and im fully vaccinated. But I'm still worried about the vaccine. Who knows what the long term effects are.

Most any kind of medicine carries a risk. We certainly hear the risks involved with any medication that's advertised. "Maycauseheartattackcancerblindnessdiarrhea...".
 
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A_Thinker

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A Nobel prize winning virologist predicts mass deaths within 2 years among those vaxxed.
Well ... it's been a year. There's about a year to go to disprove this theory ...
UK hospital data shocks the world: 80% of COVID deaths are among the vaccinated… COVID deaths up 3,000% after vaccine wave
The most cursory look at the UK death rates from COVID ... show deaths to be down from a year ago. Certainly not the claimed 3,000% increase.

That's a really incredible claim, by the way.

In any case, finding such a bold-faced lie in the report you cite ... makes it impossible to trust that anything in it is true.

Here are the UK COVID statistics ...

United Kingdom COVID: 9,889,926 Cases and 143,972 Deaths - Worldometer
 
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A_Thinker

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Fact checking stopped being anything other than propaganda, years ago.
If you stop checking the facts, ... it becomes impossible to distinguish true claims from those that are false.

So far, you've echoed the claim that there will be mass deaths among the vaccinated within a year or so now.

You've also cited patently dishonest reporting about deaths from COVID in the UK.

Given your record of promoting false claims, I'm betting it's prudent to put the rest of your claims on ice for a while ...
 
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Hans Blaster

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Well ... it's been a year. There's about a year to go to disprove this theory ...

Should take less time than that. Tens of thousands of people got the vaccine as part of a trial last summer. By next summer it will have been 2 years for them. If anyone thinks that the trial participants (the ones that got the vaccine, not the placebo) aren't being tracked for long term effects, they just don't understand the regulatory process.

My guess: When hundreds of the experimental cohort don't fall dead by the end of next summer, it will become "within 5 years", even though no claim of long-term vaccine harm that is even *close* to being supported by data involves mass death.
 
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keith99

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So far I have yet to see anyone suggest a plausible mechanism for the vaccine causing any negative long-term effects, when "long-term" is defined as over a year later.

Then this will serve as the most probable.

God is testing the faith of believers. At some point in the future, of course not specified, God will strike doen all vaccinated believers. A rather negative long term effect!

Quite testable as non-believers will not be impacted.

Ok not an effect from a natural cause, but as plausable as many other things claimed about your God.
 
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keith99

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Should take less time than that. Tens of thousands of people got the vaccine as part of a trial last summer. By next summer it will have been 2 years for them. If anyone thinks that the trial participants (the ones that got the vaccine, not the placebo) aren't being tracked for long term effects, they just don't understand the regulatory process.

My guess: When hundreds of the experimental cohort don't fall dead by the end of next summer, it will become "within 5 years", even though no claim of long-term vaccine harm that is even *close* to being supported by data involves mass death.

I expect you are right about it becoming "within 5 years".

In a very real sense even the within 2 years is rubbish. It should should not take nearly that long based on the claimed mechanism, 2 years should only relate to how long it would take for enough vaccinated people to be exposed for the statistics to become clear. By now we have enough vaccinated people that such an effect should be quite clear.
 
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Strathos

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Should take less time than that. Tens of thousands of people got the vaccine as part of a trial last summer. By next summer it will have been 2 years for them. If anyone thinks that the trial participants (the ones that got the vaccine, not the placebo) aren't being tracked for long term effects, they just don't understand the regulatory process.

My guess: When hundreds of the experimental cohort don't fall dead by the end of next summer, it will become "within 5 years", even though no claim of long-term vaccine harm that is even *close* to being supported by data involves mass death.

My uncle was in the test group. I just saw him a few weeks ago and he's doing fine.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Once upon a time, in 2002, there was the SARS-CoV-1 virus, for which they developed a vaccine.
Animals given the vaccine developed a robust antibody response, which is what they wanted.
But when the animals were exposed to the live virus, they all died from the pathogenic priming effect, so they discarded the vaccine.
Fast forward to 2019 and the SARS-CoV-2 virus, in which vaccines were developed in a rush and released as experimental vaccines - and guess what essential step was skipped? Animal trials.

A Nobel prize winning virologist predicts mass deaths within 2 years among those vaxxed.

The UK recently released a report showing that most COVID deaths are among the vaccinated.

One of many reports on UK COVID deaths:

UK hospital data shocks the world: 80% of COVID deaths are among the vaccinated… COVID deaths up 3,000% after vaccine wave
I traced it back to PHE and found this:

According to the latest PHE report, 593,572 cases of the Delta Covid-19 variant have been recorded in England up to the 12th September 2021.

Since 1st February 2021 44% of these cases have been among the unvaccinated population, accounting for 248,803 cases. Whilst 46.8% have been among the vaccinated population, with 157,400 being recorded among the fully vaccinated (26.5% of all cases) and 120,812 being recorded among those who had only had a single dose of a Covid-19 vaccine (20% of all cases).

image-163.png
 
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Subduction Zone

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I traced it back to PHE and found this:

According to the latest PHE report, 593,572 cases of the Delta Covid-19 variant have been recorded in England up to the 12th September 2021.

Since 1st February 2021 44% of these cases have been among the unvaccinated population, accounting for 248,803 cases. Whilst 46.8% have been among the vaccinated population, with 157,400 being recorded among the fully vaccinated (26.5% of all cases) and 120,812 being recorded among those who had only had a single dose of a Covid-19 vaccine (20% of all cases).

image-163.png
That indicates that the vaccine still offers significant protection against the virus. England has a vaccination rate of 88%. That means if the vaccine did not work that that the vaccinated would be 88% of cases of new infections.
 
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sfs

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So far I have yet to see anyone suggest a plausible mechanism for the vaccine causing any negative long-term effects, when "long-term" is defined as over a year later.
The mechanism suggested by the Nobel-winning virologist (antibody-dependent enhancement) is real and would work whenever someone got infected after vaccination, so it could easily occur more than a year later. Whether that makes it 'plausible' is debatable, since (a) the same effect would happen to those infected with SARS-CoV-2 and then reinfected, (b) vaccine designers are well aware of the effect and routinely test their vaccines to ensure that it doesn't occur, (c) it doesn't happen with any of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines. Lots and lots and lots of people have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 after vaccination, and no, it ain't happening.

(Note that the virologist in question, Luc Montagnier, has a long history of making patently false statements about virology. Some Nobel Prize winners are nut jobs.)
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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That indicates that the vaccine still offers significant protection against the virus. England has a vaccination rate of 88%. That means if the vaccine did not work that that the vaccinated would be 88% of cases of new infections.
Cases are rising in the vaccinated, you know, the ones who are supposed to be protected.

End of story. It's not working. But there's always another booster that is SURE to work..... (follow the money).
 
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Hans Blaster

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Cases are rising in the vaccinated, you know, the ones who are supposed to be protected.

End of story. It's not working. But there's always another booster that is SURE to work..... (follow the money).

Vaccines *reduce* infections in the exposed; vaccines *reduce* serious illness, hospitalization and death in the infected. They don't block every infection, they never did.

More infections in an areas means more other people exposed means more new infections. But, the vaccinated will get infected, etc. less often within the population. That's the story. Learn it.
 
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sfs

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Cases are rising in the vaccinated, you know, the ones who are supposed to be protected.
And cases are still lower than in the vaccinated, and severe disease and death are much lower in the vaccinated, than in the vaccinate. So the ones who are supposed to be protected are indeed being protected.
End of story. It's not working.
That is wrong -- a simple, straightforward falsehood. Every piece of information we have about the vaccines from every country says they do a very good job of protecting people from severe illness and death. You never try to refute that fact -- you just ignore it and keep repeating this falsehood. Why?
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Vaccines *reduce* infections in the exposed; vaccines *reduce* serious illness, hospitalization and death in the infected. They don't block every infection, they never did.

More infections in an areas means more other people exposed means more new infections. But, the vaccinated will get infected, etc. less often within the population. That's the story. Learn it.
That's the narrative. You learned it.

That is not the story, which is still unfolding, and will only really be known in retrospect, like all other stories like this. Remember "fully vaccinated - return to your life"? Now everyone must rush out and get a booster. There will be another one along shortly, as long as the gravy train will ride.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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And cases are still lower than in the vaccinated, and severe disease and death are much lower in the vaccinated, than in the vaccinate. So the ones who are supposed to be protected are indeed being protected.

That is wrong -- a simple, straightforward falsehood. Every piece of information we have about the vaccines from every country says they do a very good job of protecting people from severe illness and death. You never try to refute that fact -- you just ignore it and keep repeating this falsehood. Why?
It's rising daily. About 30% now...remember a short time ago with the "pandemic of the unvaccinated" nonsense? I do.
 
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Hans Blaster

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It's rising daily. About 30% now...remember a short time ago with the "pandemic of the unvaccinated" nonsense? I do.

And it still is. Those who have acquired immunity from vaccines or prior infections are getting infected and dying at lower rates than those without immunity. There is no new data to challenge that fact.
 
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sfs

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It's rising daily. About 30% now.
Of course it's rising -- vaccination rates continue to increase, and the supply of unvaccinated, uninfected people keeps decreasing. It remains true that vaccination prevents most severe disease and death. That is a fact that you have been told many times and that you absolutely refuse to acknowledge. You are spreading falsehood.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Of course it's rising -- vaccination rates continue to increase, and the supply of unvaccinated, uninfected people keeps decreasing. It remains true that vaccination prevents most severe disease and death. That is a fact that you have been told many times and that you absolutely refuse to acknowledge. You are spreading falsehood.
But they were supposed to be protected, remember? But now 30% of the hospitalized cases are vaccinated in some areas. Was 10 percent a few weeks ago. It's not simply because more got vaccines- the vaccines were supposed to do something.

The only benefit is possibly to the compromised individual. And most of those and the elderly have already complied long ago. Yet the shrill insistence that everyone get it and now get a booster continues, no matter how little sense it makes...even in small children.

That is in addition to the nonsensical narrative that my vaccine doesn't work unless you have one too....but wait.... that doesn't explain all those who are hospitalized anyway, despite compliance.

You can't see it until you see it.

But wait....Israel is considering a 5th shot, because their cases are STILL rising after boosters.
www.haaretz.com%2Fisrael-news%2Fexperts-vaccine-immunity-waning-signs-israel-facing-fifth-covid-wave-1.10410409
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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And it still is. Those who have acquired immunity from vaccines or prior infections are getting infected and dying at lower rates than those without immunity. There is no new data to challenge that fact.
But millions have natural immunity now and millions have had the vaccine (much overlap in that category).

There are many left outside those categories. Yet, according to the media, carnage continues.
 
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sfs

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But they were supposed to be protected, remember?
And they are protected from severe disease and death. Just address that for a moment, which is the subject of the only question I asked you. Do you understand vaccines protect against severe disease and death or do you not?
 
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