Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

[YahwehisHisname]

Strawman

So the fact that nothing in scripture says to change His day from the 7th to the 1rst is a strawman? Strange

What is His word ?

His scripture and example

Please supply evidence that we have done such a thing.


We could start with the 7000 times we removed His name and replaced it. Or since we are talking about the sabbath, we can look at the word Sabbaton (G4521). It is used 68 times in scripture. 59 of those times it is translated "Sabbath" The few left are the ones they render "day of the week". These are located in the gospels where Mary goes to the tomb. They also took the word "mia" and rendered it "first" instead of "one" as it is elsewhere in scripture. "First" has a word in Greek and is used in scripture throughout- it is "protos"

“I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues which are written in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the tree of life and from the set-apart and purified city which are written in this book.” (Revelation 22:18-19)

 

[BrightCandle]

Strawman

So the fact that nothing in scripture says to change His day from the 7th to the 1rst is a strawman? Strange

I agree is it strange. Oblio, calls evidence that is written in stone with the finger of God, straw. While Oblio's evidence (tradition) written by fallible men on paper is rock solid!

 

[YahwehisHisname]

I see. A very odd way to present ones case. That is why...To know Yahweh, is to know the truth, and to know the truth is the only way to recognize deception.

 

[ascribe2thelord]

Why should we keep the Sabbath as preResurresctional Jews were commanded ? There is no need to keep the Shabbat Laws, Laws which were to set apart the Jews (a type of the Church) from the Gentiles ( at ype of the world rife with sin). Christ has brought all together in Him, through the New Creation and His one time Sabbath.

So, I suppose ... we should just call it the Nine Commandments?

I agree though. We need to pick one day of the week and be lazy on it. But the fourth commandment is just as strict against laziness on other days of the week as it is for rest on that one day.

It probably doesn't have to be Saturday. What if someone lost track of the days of the week? How can we be sure it is the day we say it is? Truth is no one can tell, so people who think they're resting on a Saturday might actually be resting on a Wednesday.

Might as well worship every day, then ... you never know when Jesus is coming back!

 

[Cliff2]

So, I suppose ... we should just call it the Nine Commandments?

I agree though. We need to pick one day of the week and be lazy on it. But the fourth commandment is just as strict against laziness on other days of the week as it is for rest on that one day.It probably doesn't have to be Saturday. What if someone lost track of the days of the week? How can we be sure it is the day we say it is? Truth is no one can tell, so people who think they're resting on a Saturday might actually be resting on a Wednesday.

Might as well worship every day, then ... you never know when Jesus is coming back!

Just have a look at this paragraph of what you said.

It probably doesn't have to be Saturday. What if someone lost track of the days of the week? How can we be sure it is the day we say it is? Truth is no one can tell, so people who think they're resting on a Saturday might actually be resting on a Wednesday.

Might as well worship every day, then ... you never know when Jesus is coming back!

Look at what day God made holy.

If you are married to one of seven sisters and you came home from work one day and said to your wife that it does not matter now which of the seven is my wife.

What would the real wife do?

One thing for sure is that you would not have your real wife for very long.

I can assure you that God does care which day you keep holy.

There is nothing to stop you worshiping God on every day. In fact you should.

Those days do not become holy because you worship on them.

 

[Oblio]

So the fact that nothing in scripture says to change His day from the 7th to the 1rst is a strawman? Strange

No, the strawman is the claim that we have changed the sabbath.

These are located in the gospels where Mary goes to the tomb. They also took the word "mia" and rendered it "first" instead of "one" as it is elsewhere in scripture. "First" has a word in Greek and is used in scripture throughout- it is "protos"

Who is they and what makes you an expert on Greek ? I suppose you are one of those who deny Christ rose on Sunday ?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Says who? It is clear that the first four commandments were moral in that they deal with the moral relationship between God and mankind, while the last six deal with the moral relationships regarding human to human. How could a commandment that deals with the moral relationship between God and mankind be less important than the other three commandments of the first four, when our relationship to God will last forever, while human relationships are often transitory. That is why Jesus said "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy." Why would Jesus now say: Forget the 7th day Sabbath, and don't bother to keep it holy? When He wrote "Remember" in stone with His own finger.
Until Jesus writes in stone: "Remember to keep the 1st day holy", I'll keep the 7th day!

The two most literal English translations, the NASB, and the ESV, both translate Hebrews 4:9 in a identical fashion, see below. Note, that they use a capital "S" for Sabbath denoting the 7th day Sabbath note lower case "s" that is often used for the ceremonial sabbaths that were shadows of thing to come, while the 7th day Sabbath pre-dated sin, proving that it was not transitory in nature.

Hebrews 4:9 (NASB)

9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Its really interesting because the Ceremonial Pharisees hated Christ not only because He broke their ceremonial traditions in order to help people (Matthew 15:1-9) but because He saw through their religion to their hearts. Jesus even healed on the Sabbath day.

 

[BrightCandle]

Its really interesting because the Ceremonial Pharisees hated Christ not only because He broke their ceremonial traditions in order to help people (Matthew 15:1-9) but because He saw through their religion to their hearts. Jesus even healed on the Sabbath day.

Yes, Jesus did break the traditions of Jews, that were not inspired by God, but He did keep the Sabbath in a way that was in accordance with God original intentions. That is why He did do a lot of healing on the Sabbath. The Sabbath was made for the restoration of mankind's spiritual, physical, and social needs. The cessastion from secular work, was commanded to allow for "free time" to enabled those vitally important factors to take place. If you think about it, our hectic, stressed out culture here in the USA (and worldwide) really needs the blessings that are waiting for all who will by faith take hold of the Sabbath and keep it holy, now more than ever.

 

[YahwehisHisname]

No, the strawman is the claim that we have changed the sabbath.

Even the internal church documents admit to changing the sabbath. Constantine’s historian, Euebius, recorded the following imperial edict in 321 A.D: “All things whatsoever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath, these we have transferred to the Lord’s Day.” He called Sunday “Sol Invictus Mithras”—“the day of the unconquerable sun, Mithras.” Under penalty of death he decreed that all within his empire must cease work on Sun-Day to honor the sun god Mithras. Constantine, at Satan’s urging went on to say of the Jews: “We will have nothing to do with the cursed wretches who killed our Lord—nothing in common with the hostile rabble of the Yahudim(Jews).” You really should study on the topic you speak authoritatively on

Who is they and what makes you an expert on Greek ? I suppose you are one of those who deny Christ rose on Sunday?

"They" are the translators and one doesn't need to be an expert on Greek with the tools we have at our disposal today. I deny that which is not scriptural. Sometime between Saturday night and Sunday morning( the 15 and 16th of Nissan) Before the sun came up, while it is still dark, He rose. This is all we can know....that I am aware of

 

[YahwehisHisname]

HalaluYAH, brightcandle

 

[BrightCandle]

Even the internal church documents admit to changing the sabbath. Constantine’s historian, Euebius, recorded the following imperial edict in 321 A.D: “All things whatsoever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath, these we have transferred to the Lord’s Day

That is a key piece of historical evidence that sheds light on the question as to how the 1st day gradually supplanted Sunday in the Western Roman Church. Churchmen adding "sanctification" to civil laws combined to exhalt the 1st day over the 7th. It was not based on any command from God, that is clear from the historical record.

 

[YahwehisHisname]

It should be all one needs. The fact that Constantine was a Sun god worshiper explains many things. It is why he made sure "cross" replaced "upright pole" or "stake" all 24 times in His word. That is an interesting study also but that one would probably get me kicked out.

 

[kw5kw]

What I'm making a case for is trying to show the inconsistency of those who claim to have great regard for the Ten Commandments, even willing to publically protest and go to jail if need be to keep them in place at civil and historical locations in the USA, yet at that the same time they for the most part, refuse to keep the 4th Commandment, that is an integral part of the 10 Commandments.

We lie to ourselves that we’re perfect, that we don’t lie, we don’t covet, we aren’t prideful. We might not murder, rape and pillage. We might not commit adultery, nor do we go out and make our living by being a thief. We might not even provide false witness but we do lie about taking a paper clip from work, we might even take an ink pen or staples. How about those few pages of copy paper that you copied a receipt on or a recipe? We don’t even think about it.

Look at a man’s law of speeding. We have different speed zones they are all set up. They are laws—Man’s Law.
We go zooming down the highway at 70 in a 70… ever go 71? 72? 75? 80?
We go cruising down a street at 40… but the speed limit is 35—ever do that? Sure you have.
We’re stopping at a stop sign, ever coast thru, making it a yield instead?

These we’re all guilty of—admit it! We’re all guilty of breaking man’s most simple laws.

We’re all, all of us, we are definitely guilty of breaking God’s laws.

YOU WILL HAVE NO GODS BEFORE ME!
What about money? Is that a god for you? Do you play the stock market as a day trader? What about your job? Is that a god for you? Do you work harder at your job than you do at anything else? What about your hobby? Do you spend more time doing your hobby than anything else? Think about it! If you do any of these, then they have become a god for you and you’re putting Jehovah on the back burner.

YOU WILL HAVE NO GRAVEN IMAGE!
What about your PDA? Your Razor (cell phone)? Your MP3? Your Lexus, Honda, Izuzu? That new boat? A new computer? Do you worship these things? Do you have to have the best—the latest—the greatest? How about that new camper, motorhome? It doesn’t have to be an image of a golden calf, and don’t worship these things thinking they’ll bring happiness. Nay, they won’t for you’ll always want more! But guess what, we do.

THOU SHALL NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THY LORD THY GOD IN VAIN!
What happens when we say; “Oh, God!” What happens when we say “Jesus!” Do you say that when something happens to you? It’s not just saying the curse words that we all know, but the simple utterance of: “My God!” that we hear everyone say every day! This is just like speeding at 71 over 70 or 36 over 35, but it’s still breaking the law.

REMEMBER THE SABBATH AND KEEP IT HOLY!
Do we do that? Do you mow the grass on Sunday? Do you go to a movie on Sunday? Do you honor your God on Sunday? Not just go to church, but do you rest on Sunday as was commanded? Do you paint that room? Do you work in the garden? All of these were forbidden by the LAW of Moses (we’ll connect the dots later).

HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER!
Do you? Do you honor your mother and father? Do you question their judgment? No matter how old you are, do you actually honor everything your mother and father has done for you?

THOU SHALT NOT MURDER!
Some translations say kill, but that could be anything… the snake that tried to bite you, the bear who tried to molest you… the wasp who stung you. But, the bible actually says “murder” in the Hebrew language. That does not mean killing in war or in self defense, but actually planning and carrying out the cold-blooded murder of one’s human brother/sister, just like Cain did or even King David! Not many of us—thankfully—murder anyone, thank God!, but some do—I don’t.

THOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTRY!
Be faithful to one man/woman. Jesus defined this even further in Matthew v:26-27 when He said to even look at another woman was to commit adultery with her in your mind. What on television anymore doesn’t put that thought in a guy’s head? Internet? Even some song lyrics on the radio! Goes the same for you girls out there! Soap operas are as bad about giving thoughts as anything else. Romantic novels? &c.

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!
Paper clips, staples, a copy of this or that, who hasn’t done that? Sure, it’s not Ken Lay stealing millions (Enron), nor is it Robin Hood stealing from the Sheriff of Nottingham, but it’s still theft!

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS!
“Little Johnny did it!” or “Sue ate the ice cream!” when it was actually you. “The dog ate the homework!” when you didn’t do your home work. These are all false witness—and Lying all in one! You can carry it on to any level you want, but this is the basic, elementary aspects that we’ve all done at one time or another.

Finally:

THOU SHALT NOT COVET!
“… for if the law didn’t tell me what coveting was, I wouldn’t have known…” said the apostle Paul, and you know what neither would I. It’s the desire for something you don’t have. Advertisers make us covet! We covet anything from Big Macs and Whoppers to lobster dinners. We covet everything from underwear to the latest fashions. We covet toys when children…we covet toys when we’re adults. “The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys!” We covet cars, computers, pda’s, cell phones. We covet cd’s, dvd’s, mp3’s! We covet…period!

But Jesus takes us away from the law! We no longer live under the law, but under Grace!
Do we sin? Yes, we do!
What do we do now that we recognize the sins and not just the “biggies”?
We commune with God! We ask for guidance and repent!
Will we continue to sin?
Yes, but do we do so willfully? I hope not… not spiritually anyway. We will continue to sin because we’re in the flesh, here on earth!

Only when Jesus comes and establishes His kingdom here on earth will we, who are His saints, become sinless. The rest—they’ll be thrown into the lake of fire for eternal judgment and damnation!

 

[Cliff2]

That is a key piece of historical evidence that sheds light on the question as to how the 1st day gradually supplanted Sunday in the Western Roman Church. Churchmen adding "sanctification" to civil laws combined to exhalt the 1st day over the 7th. It was not based on any command from God, that is clear from the historical record.

Agree, the first day of the week has never been made holy by God.

There is nothing to stop us from holding a worship service on that day or for that matter any other day of the week.

Just because we may do that does not make it the Sabbath or does not make that day holy.

Only God can make a day holy. God made the seventh day holy.

 

[Cliff2]

We lie to ourselves that we’re perfect, that we don’t lie, we don’t covet, we aren’t prideful. We might not murder, rape and pillage. We might not commit adultery, nor do we go out and make our living by being a thief. We might not even provide false witness but we do lie about taking a paper clip from work, we might even take an ink pen or staples. How about those few pages of copy paper that you copied a receipt on or a recipe? We don’t even think about it.

Look at a man’s law of speeding. We have different speed zones they are all set up. They are laws—Man’s Law.
We go zooming down the highway at 70 in a 70… ever go 71? 72? 75? 80?
We go cruising down a street at 40… but the speed limit is 35—ever do that? Sure you have.
We’re stopping at a stop sign, ever coast thru, making it a yield instead?

These we’re all guilty of—admit it! We’re all guilty of breaking man’s most simple laws.

We’re all, all of us, we are definitely guilty of breaking God’s laws.

YOU WILL HAVE NO GODS BEFORE ME!
What about money? Is that a god for you? Do you play the stock market as a day trader? What about your job? Is that a god for you? Do you work harder at your job than you do at anything else? What about your hobby? Do you spend more time doing your hobby than anything else? Think about it! If you do any of these, then they have become a god for you and you’re putting Jehovah on the back burner.

YOU WILL HAVE NO GRAVEN IMAGE!
What about your PDA? Your Razor (cell phone)? Your MP3? Your Lexus, Honda, Izuzu? That new boat? A new computer? Do you worship these things? Do you have to have the best—the latest—the greatest? How about that new camper, motorhome? It doesn’t have to be an image of a golden calf, and don’t worship these things thinking they’ll bring happiness. Nay, they won’t for you’ll always want more! But guess what, we do.

THOU SHALL NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THY LORD THY GOD IN VAIN!
What happens when we say; “Oh, God!” What happens when we say “Jesus!” Do you say that when something happens to you? It’s not just saying the curse words that we all know, but the simple utterance of: “My God!” that we hear everyone say every day! This is just like speeding at 71 over 70 or 36 over 35, but it’s still breaking the law.

REMEMBER THE SABBATH AND KEEP IT HOLY!
Do we do that? Do you mow the grass on Sunday? Do you go to a movie on Sunday? Do you honor your God on Sunday? Not just go to church, but do you rest on Sunday as was commanded? Do you paint that room? Do you work in the garden? All of these were forbidden by the LAW of Moses (we’ll connect the dots later).

HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER!
Do you? Do you honor your mother and father? Do you question their judgment? No matter how old you are, do you actually honor everything your mother and father has done for you?

THOU SHALT NOT MURDER!
Some translations say kill, but that could be anything… the snake that tried to bite you, the bear who tried to molest you… the wasp who stung you. But, the bible actually says “murder” in the Hebrew language. That does not mean killing in war or in self defense, but actually planning and carrying out the cold-blooded murder of one’s human brother/sister, just like Cain did or even King David! Not many of us—thankfully—murder anyone, thank God!, but some do—I don’t.

THOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTRY!
Be faithful to one man/woman. Jesus defined this even further in Matthew v:26-27 when He said to even look at another woman was to commit adultery with her in your mind. What on television anymore doesn’t put that thought in a guy’s head? Internet? Even some song lyrics on the radio! Goes the same for you girls out there! Soap operas are as bad about giving thoughts as anything else. Romantic novels? &c.

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL!
Paper clips, staples, a copy of this or that, who hasn’t done that? Sure, it’s not Ken Lay stealing millions (Enron), nor is it Robin Hood stealing from the Sheriff of Nottingham, but it’s still theft!

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS!
“Little Johnny did it!” or “Sue ate the ice cream!” when it was actually you. “The dog ate the homework!” when you didn’t do your home work. These are all false witness—and Lying all in one! You can carry it on to any level you want, but this is the basic, elementary aspects that we’ve all done at one time or another.

Finally:

THOU SHALT NOT COVET!
“… for if the law didn’t tell me what coveting was, I wouldn’t have known…” said the apostle Paul, and you know what neither would I. It’s the desire for something you don’t have. Advertisers make us covet! We covet anything from Big Macs and Whoppers to lobster dinners. We covet everything from underwear to the latest fashions. We covet toys when children…we covet toys when we’re adults. “The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys!” We covet cars, computers, pda’s, cell phones. We covet cd’s, dvd’s, mp3’s! We covet…period!

But Jesus takes us away from the law! We no longer live under the law, but under Grace!
Do we sin? Yes, we do!
What do we do now that we recognize the sins and not just the “biggies”?
We commune with God! We ask for guidance and repent!
Will we continue to sin?
Yes, but do we do so willfully? I hope not… not spiritually anyway. We will continue to sin because we’re in the flesh, here on earth!

Only when Jesus comes and establishes His kingdom here on earth will we, who are His saints, become sinless. The rest—they’ll be thrown into the lake of fire for eternal judgment and damnation!

Can we look at what you wrote about the 4th commandment again please.

REMEMBER THE SABBATH AND KEEP IT HOLY!
Do we do that? Do you mow the grass on Sunday? Do you go to a movie on Sunday? Do you honor your God on Sunday? Not just go to church, but do you rest on Sunday as was commanded? Do you paint that room? Do you work in the garden? All of these were forbidden by the LAW of Moses (we’ll connect the dots later

Where is the command by God to stop work on the first day of the week found in the Bible?

 

[kw5kw]

Can we look at what you wrote about the 4th commandment again please.



Where is the command by God to stop work on the first day of the week found in the Bible?

The LORD was raised on the first day of the week.
That's the day, we as Christians, worship the LORD.

 

[Oblio]

Agree, the first day of the week has never been made holy by God.

Uh, there was a little occurance known as the Resurrection.

Is it the position of the SDAs that that event was not Holy ? Is it also their position that a day must be explicitly called Holy in Scripture for it to be so ?

 

[Oblio]

Cliff, please tell us what makes the Sabbath Holy. Why did God call it Holy ? And tell us why Sunday is not Holy as it is the day of the New Creation.

 

[kw5kw]

Can we look at what you wrote about the 4th commandment again please.



Where is the command by God to stop work on the first day of the week found in the Bible?

So, the Sabbath question is the only thing you're concerned with? What about the rest?

 

[jochanaan]

Uh, there was a little occurance known as the Resurrection...

Praise the Lord indeed for the Resurrection! But I still find no command in Scripture to transfer the Sabbath duties of rest and remembrance to any other day, including Resurrection Day, nor any Scriptural or historical evidence that the disciples did so for nearly a century after it happened.