Why worry about the Ten Commandments, if you are disregarding the Sabbath?

[Nightfire]

If something brings you closer to God it is likely good on the Sabbath. If something does not, you want to question it. The day is about Him.

This is good advice on any day

But even then it is not necessary to be overly-legalistic. Jesus healed the mother of Simon and she began to wait on them, even on the Sabbath. So some necessary things, such as food, etc. need to be done on the Sabbath.

But how do you motivate this, considering the prohibition is against gathering food or doing any work on the sabbath (cf. Ex. 16, which also includes the command "no one is to go out" - the commandment that they are asked to "remember" in Ex. 20)?

If one looks at how the Jews kept the sabbath, and the kinds of activities that were prohibited, (notice that they connected it with work on the tabernacle) you'll see that they come down to the same thing that was problematic to Paul, and what I consider this discussion to be about: that religion becomes a list of stone-inscribed rules of what should or shouldn't be done, rather than a living, purpose-driven faith where we do take control of our environment. The sabbath serves that purpose as it served Christ; it is not a purpose in itself, Christ is. Jesus, who set up the "the greater and more perfect tabernacle" (Heb. 8-9), demonstrated the true end (goal) of the law when time and again He subjected the sabbath to the exercizing of God's will, almost seeming to favour it for his work, and upsetting the Pharisees no end.

The sabbath is about what should be done and meditated upon - it's something positive. There should be no need to turn it into a chess-game with God, where "religious" people try to fulfill the letter of the law by doing what is "necessary", but neglect the spirit of the law. As Jesus explained in the sermon on the mount, if we wanted to do what is necessary, we would have to surpass even the observant Pharisees. Keeping the law just like it had been written on stone is like embracing a shadow when the real person is standing there. The law written on our hearts means that the sabbath is inside us, just like all the other laws, a "moveable feast" - not dependent on cermonies, holy days, months or other feasts, but firmly fixed on Christ, in the same way that the Jewish sabbath was fixed on the first creation, and the first man. The kingdom of God is not a physical place, but among us. It does not even come by diligently studying the scriptures, but by coming to Christ to have life (John 5:39-40).

 

[DeaconDean]

You know, I remember reading:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." -Matt. 22:37-40

I'll be honest with you, I have a hard enough time trying to live by these two commandments which Jesus said we should do to fulfill all the law and the 10 commandments. Jesus summed up the whole law and the commandments in these two commandments and we (all Christians, everybody as a matter of fact) can't even live by these two. Go figure.

 

[Cliff2]

You know, I remember reading:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." -Matt. 22:37-40

I'll be honest with you, I have a hard enough time trying to live by these two commandments which Jesus said we should do to fulfill all the law and the 10 commandments. Jesus summed up the whole law and the commandments in these two commandments and we (all Christians, everybody as a matter of fact) can't even live by these two. Go figure.

Jesus was only quoting from the Old Testament.

 

[Nightfire]

Jesus was only quoting from the Old Testament.

I think it should tell us something that He didn't quote from the ten commandments. Maybe we should adjust our focus accordingly?

As a side note, I've come across a very nice article in Adventist Today, Jul/Aug 1996, that I think everybody concerned with the subject should read: The Sabbath in Christian Life: A Reconsideration. It's always refreshing to see Adventists successfully avoid the 'sinister conspiracy' angle. I must also thank tall73 for keeping the discussion objective and factual.

 

[wanderphilos]

I think that it is necessary to look at what the Sabbath is.

Jesus says in Mark 2:27
Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath"

The interpretation of this can only be clarified by looking at the original commandment in Exodus

Exodus 20:8-11
8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

God gave the Sabbath as a day of rest. This was done so that the Isrealites could relax 1 day out of the week without feeling condemned in their spirit as if they were being lazy. Remember that the Egyptian overseers would not have given them a "day off" so God does. Jesus further explains that it is given for man to rest not to God as some kind of sacrifice.

 

[YahwehisHisname]

Does anything in scripture say to NOT observe the sabbath or that we are to change it to Sunday? Since His word is the only authority on the matter, we should stick to His word. Please supply evidence(scripture) that it is OK to copyedit our creator.

 

[Oblio]

Does anything in scripture say to NOT observe the sabbath or that we are to change it to Sunday?

Strawman

Since His word is the only authority on the matter, we should stick to His word.

What is His word ?

Please supply evidence(scripture) that it is OK to copyedit our creator.

Please supply evidence that we have done such a thing.

 

[jochanaan]

What is His word ?

His word, among other things, is to "Remember the sabbath day."

Please supply evidence that we have done such a thing.

The evidence is the mere fact of our disputation. I find no record in the Old Testament of any doubt regarding which day was the seventh/Sabbath, nor, despite what some would have us believe, is there any disputation regarding this in the New Testament writings. True, there is some question whether Paul's instructions, and those of the Jerusalem Council in Acts 15, relieved this seeming burden from us Gentile Christians; but I find no evidence of any transfer of the duties regarding Sabbath to the first day of the week, nor did Jesus or any of His disciples command a change in the day. "For I am the LORD, I change not..." (Malachi 3:6)

You might read Scripture in such a way as to relieve the Sabbath "burden" from us altogether (but why, when observing it in obedient love brings joy and peace?); you cannot read into it any change of day.

 

[jochanaan]

If one looks at how the Jews kept the sabbath, and the kinds of activities that were prohibited, (notice that they connected it with work on the tabernacle) you'll see that they come down to the same thing that was problematic to Paul, and what I consider this discussion to be about: that religion becomes a list of stone-inscribed rules of what should or shouldn't be done, rather than a living, purpose-driven faith where we do take control of our environment. The sabbath serves that purpose as it served Christ; it is not a purpose in itself, Christ is...

True. And that is what Jesus was about when He chastised the Pharisees for making the Sabbath a burden instead of "a delight." (Isaiah 58:13) But just because the Pharisees were tyrannical legalists doesn't mean there is no obligation to observe any of God's other regulations besides the two we all accept, to love God and our neighbors.

 

[Oblio]

His word, among other things, is to "Remember the sabbath day.

That is not what I asked. What do you consider to be the word of God ?"

The evidence is the mere fact of our disputation.

I saked for evidence that we copyedited (whatever that means) the word of God. You have not defined what the word of God is, nor have you given evidence (or a definition) of copyediting.

 

[Oblio]

His word, among other things, is to "Remember the sabbath day.

That is not what I asked. What do you consider to be the word of God ?"

The evidence is the mere fact of our disputation.

I asked for evidence that we copyedited (whatever that means) the word of God. You have not defined what the word of God is, nor have you given evidence (or a definition) of copyediting.

 

[jochanaan]

That is not what I asked. What do you consider to be the word of God ?

That's a big question--but certainly most Christians, like I, would accept the words the Bible attributes to God as part of "the word of God." By virtue of being carved on a stone tablet with God's own hand, the Ten Commandments qualify. Or shall we now discuss whether the Bible is both inspired and accurate? That's not within this thread's purpose.

 

[Oblio]

That's a big question--but certainly most Christians, like I, would accept the words the Bible attributes to God as part of "the word of God." By virtue of being carved on a stone tablet with God's own hand, the Ten Commandments qualify. Or shall we now discuss whether the Bible is both inspired and accurate? That's not within this thread's purpose.

Since you stated

Since His word is the only authority on the matter, we should stick to His word.

And since most Christians consider the Bible to be part of, but not the entirety of the word of God, unless you wish to ascribe to the majority and historical confession of the word, I would suggest you posit this in a forum that is limited by your view.

 

[JimfromOhio]

There will be some who will not consider that the Bible is the complete Word of God. But others like me do consider the Bible is The Word of God which was inspired by the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 6:17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

With the Holy Spirit, we can understand the Word of God with the help from the Bible to test the spirits claimed by men. 1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 Thessalonians 2:13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the Word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the Word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.

1 Corinthians 14:36-37
Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

Back to the topic of Sabbath

Exodus 20:10
On the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.

The main issue is that Ceremonial Sabbath meant NO one work at all. Not cleaning, not cooking, not even shopping (milking the cow). Every seventh day, each member of the will rest on their chosen seventh day of the week. It is my belief that sabbath (a day of rest) to the pattern of work six days and rest one day.

Another issue is this: The Sabbath observance was a part of the ceremonial law of the Old Testament, along with such things as circumcision and eating restrictions. Would we be rejoicing to live in a Pharisaic-dominated society as they were part of "Ceremonial Law" followers?

These ceremonial laws showed that the Israelites were set apart (sanctified) from all other nations (Exodus 31:12, 13). The New Testament shows that all ceremonial law (restrictive eating - Timothy 4:4, 5), circumcision - I Corinthians 7:18, and Sabbath-keeping - Colossians 2:16, 17) was fulfilled in Christ, and our need to observe it for justification and sanctification abolished. We are even warned against Sabbath-keepers who want to judge others for not keeping it: "Let no man judge you...regarding...sabbaths" (Colossians 2:16).

The Ceremonial Pharisees hated Christ not only because He broke their ceremonial traditions in order to help people (Matthew 15:1-9) but because He saw through their religion to their hearts.

 

[jochanaan]

Since you stated

Since His word is the only authority on the matter, we should stick to His word.

And since most Christians consider the Bible to be part of, but not the entirety of the word of God, unless you wish to ascribe to the majority and historical confession of the word, I would suggest you posit this in a forum that is limited by your view.

That wasn't me; that was YahwehisHisname. Please do not put words in my mouth.

 

[jochanaan]

...Another issue is this: The Sabbath observance was a part of the ceremonial law of the Old Testament...

So were the other Nine Commandments. Yes, the Sabbath was numbered among the ceremonial holidays in Leviticus 23; but it is also part of the Ten and is even mentioned in the Creation story (Genesis 2:2-3).

 

[BrightCandle]

I think it should tell us something that He didn't quote from the ten commandments. Maybe we should adjust our focus accordingly?

His life preached louder than any words when it came to the Sabbath. If you figure from even 12 years old to 33 years old, Jesus kept over 1,000 7th Sabbaths. In fact, He even rested on the 7th day in tomb. There is no record of Him ever keeping any 1st day "sabbaths", and there is definitely no record of Jesus ever giving a new Sabbath commandment changing it to the 7th day to the 1st day. Misguided churchmen did that centuries later, and Popes, church councils, and Roman Emperors put the finishing touches on the 1st day, when it comes adding "sanctification" to Sunday in the form of civil laws.

 

[JimfromOhio]

So were the other Nine Commandments. Yes, the Sabbath was numbered among the ceremonial holidays in Leviticus 23; but it is also part of the Ten and is even mentioned in the Creation story (Genesis 2:2-3).

Sabbath was the only Ceremonial law in the Ten Commandment. The other 9 are moral laws. Now with the New Testament, every day is ONE of Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4:9-11).

In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons.

The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant. Source: John MacArthur

 

[jochanaan]

Sabbath was the only Ceremonial law in the Ten Commandment. The other 9 are moral laws. Now with the New Testament, every day is ONE of Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4:9-11).

Now I just wonder why the LORD would see fit to include one purely ceremonial law among his great moral precepts? Might it not be to teach us obedience? C.S. Lewis has the protagonist of his novel Perelandra speculate along similar lines:

"This man has said that the law...is different from the other laws...And so far he says well. But then he says that it is thus different in order that you may disobey it. But there might be another reason...I think He made one law of that kind in order that there might be obedience. In all these other matters what you call obeying Him is but doing what seems good in your own eyes also. Is love content with that? You do them, indeed, because they are His will, but not only because they are His will. Where can you taste the joy of obeying unless He bids you do something for which His bidding is the only reason?" (from Chapter 9)

 

[BrightCandle]

Sabbath was the only Ceremonial law in the Ten Commandment. The other 9 are moral laws. Now with the New Testament, every day is ONE of Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4:9-11).

Says who? It is clear that the first four commandments were moral in that they deal with the moral relationship between God and mankind, while the last six deal with the moral relationships regarding human to human. How could a commandment that deals with the moral relationship between God and mankind be less important than the other three commandments of the first four, when our relationship to God will last forever, while human relationships are often transitory. That is why Jesus said "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy." Why would Jesus now say: Forget the 7th day Sabbath, and don't bother to keep it holy? When He wrote "Remember" in stone with His own finger.
Until Jesus writes in stone: "Remember to keep the 1st day holy", I'll keep the 7th day!

The two most literal English translations, the NASB, and the ESV, both translate Hebrews 4:9 in a identical fashion, see below. Note, that they use a capital "S" for Sabbath denoting the 7th day Sabbath note lower case "s" that is often used for the ceremonial sabbaths that were shadows of thing to come, while the 7th day Sabbath pre-dated sin, proving that it was not transitory in nature.

Hebrews 4:9 (NASB)

9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.