The relationship between the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath, and the New Covenant

[timothyu]

Today the Sabbath is necessary for monetary reasons. If the decree was obeyed the loss in global revenues to the Sabbatarian movement would be in the billions.

Big deal, that is worldly thinking and not of the Kingdom

 

[Bob S]

Like I said, it's hard to have an honest discussion with someone who is only here to justify their reliigon.

Ditto

"The decree wasn't just about not requiring circumcision but not requiring Gentiles to keep the law of Moses, which includes the Sabbath."

Wrong

 

[Studyman]

What are you talking about? You're rambling on about everything just to avoid the main point which is hardly honest discussion. All I'm saying is that the scripture is crystal clear:
"The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings."

This is a letter directly from the leaders of the Church sent to the Gentile believers in Asia

"Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment."

Yes, the Apostles didn't want the Gentile converts from any nation, "to turn away from God", and adopt the commandments (Laws) of men the Pharisees taught for doctrines.

Of course the Apostles steered them away from the children of the devil, and towards Moses, being read every Sabbath Day.

Those "some who went out" were most likely sent by the Pharisee sect that said earlier to the Jerusalem congregation: “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

Again, the Apostles knew about the doctrines of the Pharisees, and the Laws they claimed were from Moses because they believed in Jesus, and His Word's concerning them, and told them instead to "Abstain" from the Sins common to them knowing that they would learn the rest through the Holy scriptures which were trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God (Jew or Gentile) may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Just because you don't believe Jesus and Paul's words concerning the Pharisees and the Law they promoted, doesn't make them void or false.

So we now know exactly what law the apostles and the elders are talking about in the decree, the law of Moses,

No, Paul directed the Gentile converts to abstain from transgressing the Laws of Moses they were prone to transgress. They were already privy to God's Holy Sabbath and were eager to not work on it, and hear more about God, which was part of it's purpose in the first place.

Acts 13: 42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together "to hear the word of God".

It's absurd to promote the falsehood that Jesus and the Apostles God gave to Him, promoted the transgression of God's Laws.

whether it's according to the Pharisees' interpretation, Moses' interpretation, the apostles' interpretation or your interpretation, we all know that it includes the 7th day Sabbath rest.

According to the Holy Scriptures, it was the Christ who set apart and Sanctified the 7th Day as Holy to me, and Holy to Him in the first place. He said HE made it for me, and that it is truly a "Feast of the Christ". Yes, "Many" who profess to know God, despise God's Judgments and Sabbaths as shown all over the Holy Scriptures. But Jesus didn't, Paul didn't, Peter didn't, James didn't, and as a matter of Biblical fact, not ONE Example of Faithful man in the entire Bible, walks the Path you are promoting where God's commandments are concerned.

So when you say "we", you are not speaking to the "many" Faithful men who "Yield themselves" servants to obey God. You are speaking abount the "children of disobedience" of which the Apostles were not partakers of.

And this gives further evidence that the visit to the Gentiles in Asia wasn't just about circumcision, but it was also about getting them to keep the law of Moses.

No according to the Christ "of the Bible".

And the apostles and the elders, by decree, voided all the plans and efforts of the Pharisee sect, that secretly went over their heads to get the Gentiles circumcised and keeping the law of Moses, by simply saying in that decree, "we gave no such commandment."

Yes, the Apostles kept the New converts from adopting the philosophies of the children of disobedience. Your entire philosophy is destroyed by the very Words of the Christ "of the bible". I asked you to find even ONE place in the Law and Prophets, or the New Testament where the Christ, the Holy One of Israel who became Flesh, EVER Said even ONE time, that the Pharisees and rebellious Jews were keeping and promoting the "Law of Moses".

And you can't because HE never did, because they were not teaching for doctrines the Commandments of God, Rather, they were promoting to the Gentile Converts, the Commandments of men.

That's it. Case closed. There never was a command from the apostles for Gentiles to keep the law of Moses which includes the Sabbath.

1 Cor. 7: 19 Circumcision (Jew) is nothing, and uncircumcision (Gentile) is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

The only reason to disobey this decree and teach people a modern, Gentile version of the law of Moses, that was invented by a Gentile woman of the 19th/20th century, is for monetary reasons. And that's the truth!

Maybe your jesus is a woman, I don't know what you are talking about. But the Jesus "of the bible", to which I have "Yielded myself" a servant to obey, said that I am to "Live By" EVERY WORD of God. I would post His Words, but you will not be persuaded by them. And Jesus explained the reason for that as well, should anyone reading want to know.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[Studyman]

Wrong

Yes, the person I quoted here is wrong. Something we can finally agree on.

 

[Canuckster]

Yes, the Apostles didn't want the Gentile converts from any nation, "to turn away from God", and adopt the commandments (Laws) of men the Pharisees taught for doctrines.

No. The apostles clearly state in the decree that they gave no such commandment for Gentile believers to get circumcised and keep the law. We all know in the decree the apostles were not referring to "the commandments (Laws) of men the Pharisees taught for doctrines." That's just your dishonest retort. They were referring to the law, or sometimes referred to as the law of Moses, which are not commandments of men and includes the 7th day Sabbath rest.

 

[Canuckster]

Big deal, that is worldly thinking and not of the Kingdom

It's not my worldly thinking it's the worldly thinking of those who use false doctrine to exploit others. And that is a big deal to the exploited and to those that are too non-worldly thinking to mention it.

 

[daq]

No. The apostles clearly state in the decree that they gave no such commandment for Gentile believers to get circumcised and keep the law.

No, the Apostles do not clearly state that in the decree, and that is because the passage is disputed.

Acts 15:24 KJV (Textus Receptus)
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Acts 15:24 ASV (Nestle-Aland)
24 Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;

Why is the statement, and keep the law, missing from the ASV and other translations? Because it only appears in the Byzantine text types and the Textus Receptus.

We all know in the decree the apostles were not referring to "the commandments (Laws) of men the Pharisees taught for doctrines." That's just your dishonest retort. They were referring to the law, or sometimes referred to as the law of Moses, which are not commandments of men and includes the 7th day Sabbath rest.

No, we don't all know that, and actually the evidence from a deeper study shows that Studyman is much more likely correct.

Acts 15:1 KJV (Textus Receptus)
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Acts 15:1 YLT (Textus Receptus)
1 And certain having come down from Judea, were teaching the brethren--'If ye be not circumcised after the custom of Moses, ye are not able to be saved;'

Acts 15:1 ASV (Nestle-Aland)
1 And certain men came down from Judæa and taught the brethren, saying, Except ye be circumcised after the custom of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

Whether the statement should read manner or custom is up to translator opinion because the Greek word used here, (G1485 ethos), means both. However, when used in this type of context, (commandments of/from the Torah), it is more correctly custom. The reason, and especially here, is because in this context custom does not mean there was or is a particular custom of Mosheh about how to perform circumcision but, much rather, the custom of the Pharisees regarding the Torah (of Mosheh).

In other words those in the passage, (no doubt Pharisees, though they are not named), were attempting to enforce Pharisee doctrine upon the Gentiles, to observe circumcision according to (after) the custom of the Pharisees who sat in "Mosheh's seat", which means therefore according to their own interpretation of the Torah regarding circumcision. There actually is no straightforward evidence in the scripture that Mosheh had either a manner or a custom for how the circumcision commands were to be carried out/observed.