Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[Major1]

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

Romans 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.

Romans 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Romans 15:31 That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;

Romans 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Romans 16:15 Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

Congratulations brother. You have just shown us that the word SAINT means born again believer in the New Test. which makes up the church.

BUT that in no way means that the word SAINT in the Old Test. means CHURCH.
From your postings and obvious intelligence, there is just no way that you mean that and I know that is not what you are trying to do.

I will let you think about that for awhile.

 

[Riberra]

Just as I suspected. YOU do not read the Scriptures at all my friend. Please do yourself a favor and spend more time in the Bible and less on the internet agenda websites.

Revelation 7:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
" And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. "

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
"I said to him, “Sir,you know.” Then he told me:
These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation.
They washed their robes and made them white
in the blood of the Lamb."

English Standard Version (ESV)
"I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

New International Version (NIV)
" I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Your understanding is completely flawed and false. But that is not new news is it????

I notice that you prefer corrupted version of the Bible rather than the KJV.

Revelation 7:14

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

But that is not surprising knowing that the original version of the KJV is banned at Dallas Theology Seminary.

The Mystics, The Masons and Dallas Theological Seminary - Historicist.com The Protestant Interpretation of Biblical Prophecy. The Historical Alternative

the King James Version is highly incompatible with the dispensationalist doctrines. In order to correct this problem, he inserted footnotes in crucial areas where the KJV disagreed with the RV and the Alexandrian manuscripts. Each footnote “corrected” the KJV text to comply with the corrupted manuscripts.

DTS has inherited his contempt for the KJV. A thorough examination of DTS shows that the only King James Bible they really tolerate is the one doctored up by Dr. Scofield. They have since come out with new Scofield Reference Bibles in NIV (1984), NASB (1988) and NKJV (1989).

 

[Major1]

I notice that you prefer corrupted version of the Bible rather than the KJV.

Revelation 7:14

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

But that is not surprising knowing that the original version of the KJV is banned at Dallas Theology Seminary.

But that was not your point originally was it??????

Once again you were proven in error so you had to switch the perspective. I expected nothing less.

 

[Riberra]

But that was not your point originally was it??????

Once again you were proven in error so you had to switch the perspective.

You have not proven me in error at all.To your surprise you have been exposed ....
The three-fold flame symbol of Dallas Theological Seminary reveal far more than you think...
The Mystics, The Masons and Dallas Theological Seminary - Historicist.com The Protestant Interpretation of Biblical Prophecy. The Historical Alternative

the King James Version is highly incompatible with the dispensationalist doctrines. In order to correct this problem, Scofield inserted footnotes in crucial areas where the KJV disagreed with the RV and the Alexandrian manuscripts. Each footnote “corrected” the KJV text to comply with the corrupted manuscripts.

Dallas Theological Seminary has inherited Scofield contempt for the KJV. A thorough examination of DTS shows that the only King James Bible they really tolerate is the one doctored up by Dr. Scofield. They have since come out with new Scofield Reference Bibles in NIV (1984), NASB (1988) and NKJV (1989).

Readers: keep this link in your favorite before that post disappear.
LINK:
The Mystics, The Masons and Dallas Theological Seminary - Historicist.com The Protestant Interpretation of Biblical Prophecy. The Historical Alternative

 

[Postvieww]

Congratulations brother. You have just shown us that the word SAINT means born again believer in the New Test. which makes up the church.

BUT that in no way means that the word SAINT in the Old Test. means CHURCH.
From your postings and obvious intelligence, there is just no way that you mean that and I know that is not what you are trying to do.

I will let you think about that for awhile.

Thank you for congratulating me.


I’m sorry I got confused; I thought the basis of this was saints in the NEW TESTAMENT book of Revelation.


Since you said “However SAINTS can mean the Jews and it can also mean the ones who came to be saved AFTER the Rapture who are the Tribulation saints of Rev. 7:9” I thought it just might be relevant that saints in Revelation could just be the same as the rest of the saints in the New Testament, but that wouldn’t fit your narrative.

Maybe you could point out all the times "saints" mean Jews in the New Testament and how you arrived at that conclusion, that might be helpful. Maybe also point out where in the text it talks about Jews getting saved in Revelation. I’m not saying none will, but you appear to assume a lot.

 

[keras]

That describes people from every nation, tribe, people and language arriving in Heaven. This includes both Jews and Gentiles. The Church will have departed earlier, and Rev. 7:14 says these people came out of the Great Tribulation. The Greek word translated “out of” refers to both time and place, and means they arrive in Heaven before the Great Tribulation begins. Since the Trumpet judgments begin in Rev. 8:6 these would be people saved after the rapture during the time of the seal judgments.

This is a very wrong and biased interpretation.
You insert the word 'the' before 'great Tribulation'. NOT in any Bible translation. You are adding to Revelation, not a good thing to do. Revelation 22:18
AS the Seventh Seal time gap is yet to happen after what is describe in Revelation 7, we know that the 'tribulation' referred to must be the just happened Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
You place a 'rapture to heaven' in Revelation 7:9, but nowhere is it said that will happen. It is plainly an earthly scene that John is describing; the people have palm branches and the Lord stands on Mt Zion, Revelation 14:1 and is revealed to His own people, 2 Thessalonians 1:10
They are the multitude of true Christians that the Lord will gather into all of the holy Land soon after His Day of fiery wrath has cleared all that area. Deuteronomy 32:40-43, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Jeremiah 33:12-13

 

[Postvieww]

You have not proven me in error at all.To your surprise you have been exposed ....
The three-fold flame symbol of Dallas Theological Seminary reveal far more than you think...
The Mystics, The Masons and Dallas Theological Seminary - Historicist.com The Protestant Interpretation of Biblical Prophecy. The Historical Alternative

the King James Version is highly incompatible with the dispensationalist doctrines. In order to correct this problem, Scofield inserted footnotes in crucial areas where the KJV disagreed with the RV and the Alexandrian manuscripts. Each footnote “corrected” the KJV text to comply with the corrupted manuscripts.

Dallas Theological Seminary has inherited Scofield contempt for the KJV. A thorough examination of DTS shows that the only King James Bible they really tolerate is the one doctored up by Dr. Scofield. They have since come out with new Scofield Reference Bibles in NIV (1984), NASB (1988) and NKJV (1989).

Readers: keep this link in your favorite before that post disappear.
LINK:
The Mystics, The Masons and Dallas Theological Seminary - Historicist.com The Protestant Interpretation of Biblical Prophecy. The Historical Alternative

Very informative Riberra.

I have dealt personally with a co-worker friend who was a deacon at his church and a 3rd degree mason. Mason’s at the lower levels are deceived and ignorant of what is truly involved, the masonic organization at it’s foundation is satanic and I am convinced those at the upper levels know that. It is sad how many who claim Christ are involved in this evil organization.

This just might be a good topic for a thread.

 

[Major1]

You have not proven me in error at all.To your surprise you have been exposed ....
The three-fold flame symbol of Dallas Theological Seminary reveal far more than you think...
The Mystics, The Masons and Dallas Theological Seminary - Historicist.com The Protestant Interpretation of Biblical Prophecy. The Historical Alternative

the King James Version is highly incompatible with the dispensationalist doctrines. In order to correct this problem, Scofield inserted footnotes in crucial areas where the KJV disagreed with the RV and the Alexandrian manuscripts. Each footnote “corrected” the KJV text to comply with the corrupted manuscripts.

Dallas Theological Seminary has inherited Scofield contempt for the KJV. A thorough examination of DTS shows that the only King James Bible they really tolerate is the one doctored up by Dr. Scofield. They have since come out with new Scofield Reference Bibles in NIV (1984), NASB (1988) and NKJV (1989).

Readers: keep this link in your favorite before that post disappear.
LINK:
The Mystics, The Masons and Dallas Theological Seminary - Historicist.com The Protestant Interpretation of Biblical Prophecy. The Historical Alternative

This is always the case. When Bible truth can not be accepted it leaves you with no option except to try and place some kind of discredit on those that do not agree with you.

You are welcome to cast all the dispurgeons you can think up on DTS. I really do not care.

You are also welcome to do the same thing to Liberty University as I personally have some ties with them as well.

You then can do the same thing with Eckerd College in St. Petersburg. I really do not care at all.

All that says to me is that you really do need to try and take some on-line courses from any one of those fine Universities.

 

[Major1]

Very informative Riberra.

I have dealt personally with a co-worker friend who was a deacon at his church and a 3rd degree mason. Mason’s at the lower levels are deceived and ignorant of what is truly involved, the masonic organization at it’s foundation is satanic and I am convinced those at the upper levels know that. It is sad how many who claim Christ are involved in this evil organization.

This just might be a good topic for a thread.

Now there is something that we can absolutely agree on!!!!!

The fact is that Mason's live and operate at every level of our society.

There is no proof that I am aware of that DTS is a Masonic outreach facility as claimed by my brother. Are there Mason's in position's of leadership....
absolutely, just as there are in EVERY University and Church.

It is estimated that 30% of the Southern Baptist Convention are members of Freemasonry. I would say that you could apply that to every single Christian denomination because there is no way to be sure.

All Mason's take an oath. That right there is non-Biblical!!!

The oath says that they sware.... "To never reveal and will always conceal their affiliation with Freemasonry doctrines."

 

[Major1]

This is a very wrong and biased interpretation.
You insert the word 'the' before 'great Tribulation'. NOT in any Bible translation. You are adding to Revelation, not a good thing to do. Revelation 22:18
AS the Seventh Seal time gap is yet to happen after what is describe in Revelation 7, we know that the 'tribulation' referred to must be the just happened Sixth Seal worldwide disaster.
You place a 'rapture to heaven' in Revelation 7:9, but nowhere is it said that will happen. It is plainly an earthly scene that John is describing; the people have palm branches and the Lord stands on Mt Zion, Revelation 14:1 and is revealed to His own people, 2 Thessalonians 1:10
They are the multitude of true Christians that the Lord will gather into all of the holy Land soon after His Day of fiery wrath has cleared all that area. Deuteronomy 32:40-43, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Jeremiah 33:12-13

NOPE! It is what it is and truth allways cuts like a two edged sword.

 

[Major1]

Thank you for congratulating me.


I’m sorry I got confused; I thought the basis of this was saints in the NEW TESTAMENT book of Revelation.


Since you said “However SAINTS can mean the Jews and it can also mean the ones who came to be saved AFTER the Rapture who are the Tribulation saints of Rev. 7:9” I thought it just might be relevant that saints in Revelation could just be the same as the rest of the saints in the New Testament, but that wouldn’t fit your narrative.

Maybe you could point out all the times "saints" mean Jews in the New Testament and how you arrived at that conclusion, that might be helpful. Maybe also point out where in the text it talks about Jews getting saved in Revelation. I’m not saying none will, but you appear to assume a lot.

If I was in error, I apologize to you. It seemed to me that your purpose was to link the word "Saint" in Daniel to the existence of the Church in the Revelation. Someone actually quoted Daniel where the word SAINT was used so as to try and link the two..

Of course that word there meant God's people the Jews who were also Daniel's people and they had no affiliation with the Christian Church of the New Test. As we both know, the church was a "mystery" and did not exist until defined it. That IMO is forcing the Scriptures to say something they are not saying.

Now, when we get to the Rev. after chapter 3 and see the word "Saint", it does not apply to the Church IMHO. No one has to agree with me. That is and will be my understanding and you are welcome to disagree.

The word "Saint" then found in the Rev. after chapter 3 is used to describe the people who accept Christ and DO NOT take the mark of the Beast. IMO, the great majority of those will be Jews as it is the purpose of God to save the nation of Israel.

Will ALL of Israel be saved???? Will every single Jew be saved??? NO! But ALL of the remnant which God has predestinated WILL be saved.

I hope that allows you to understand my position. I am very confident that I will not change your position and you can be sure that you will not change mine.

However, I do hope that we can communicate in Christian love and respect.

 

[BABerean2]

You are welcome to cast all the dispurgeons you can think up on DTS. I really do not care.

We all should all understand that one of the founding principals of DTS was to promote John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine, which is found in the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible. It has been very effective in that regard. Many pastors across our nation have either been trained at this seminary or have been schooled in its doctrine. Dr. David Jeremiah is an excellent example.

Classic Dispensationalists believe God will again go back to dealing with the modern nation of Israel after the end of the “Church Age”. They claim the Church is a “parenthesis” in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.

Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church.

“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.

Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.

John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…

"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

There are numerous conflicts with other passages of scripture produced by John Darby’s Two People of God / Two Kingdoms of God doctrine. Many of the older classic Dispensationalists claim the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are not the same. However, a parallel study of the Gospels reveals the error of this logic.

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.


Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Luk 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.


Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


I had to abandon modern Dispensational Theology, because what its proponents continued to say did not match up to what is found in my Bible. It is not an attack upon my Brothers and Sisters who promote the doctrine.

However, we should give no quarter to any manmade doctrine. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant, Dispensational Theology comes to pieces. This is why its proponents work so hard to ignore or explain away the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah chapter 31, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13 and applied specifically to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

.

 

[Major1]

We all should all understand that one of the founding principals of DTS was to promote John Nelson Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine, which is found in the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible. It has been very effective in that regard. Many pastors across our nation have either been trained at this seminary or have been schooled in its doctrine. Dr. David Jeremiah is an excellent example.

Classic Dispensationalists believe God will again go back to dealing with the modern nation of Israel after the end of the “Church Age”. They claim the Church is a “parenthesis” in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.

Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church.

“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.

Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.

John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…

"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25

There are numerous conflicts with other passages of scripture produced by John Darby’s Two People of God / Two Kingdoms of God doctrine. Many of the older classic Dispensationalists claim the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God are not the same. However, a parallel study of the Gospels reveals the error of this logic.

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.


Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Luk 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.


Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


I had to abandon modern Dispensational Theology, because what its proponents continued to say did not match up to what is found in my Bible. It is not an attack upon my Brothers and Sisters who promote the doctrine.

However, we should give no quarter to any manmade doctrine. Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant, Dispensational Theology comes to pieces. This is why its proponents work so hard to ignore or explain away the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah chapter 31, and found fulfilled in Hebrews 8:6-13 and applied specifically to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24 and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

.

Of course I support your right to your opinion. Now of course I have to ask you, when did you attend DTS????

It seems to me that for anyone to cast the dispurgeons that you are casting, you should be required to actually have been a part of such things instead of just copy and pasting the opinions of others who may or may not have a personal agenda against said operations.

It is just like talking with a man who is having Post combat problems. You can sit and talk and console and say...."I know, I understand, I agree" BUT if YOU have never been in actual combat YOU can not say those things because you have no actual frame of consciousness in order to do so.

Your attacks on DTS come from the fact that it does not agree with YOUR perspective of theology and it makes you angry. So what to do........cast doubts and dispurgeons on the one who disagrees with you. That my dear brother is classic.

The know fact about DTS is that it has been known as a center of modern Dispensational teaching.
That is in no way a bif secret that you are promoting. Actually, due to Dr. Lewis Chafer's development of a systematic theology, a system of exegesis of the Bible which approaches the Bible with a "premillennial, dispensational interpretation of the Scriptures."

THAT is what you are arguing against. It is NOT the seminary you are troubled by, but the Bible doctrine it teaches that you do not agree with.

My guess is that you have never opened the book Dr. Chafer wrote titled..... Systematic Theology.
Again, it is my guess that you are condemming that which you know nothing about except what you have read on website that agree with your agenda.

Now then. You are very vocal and very negative and the bottom line fact is that no one here on this site knows YOUR personal credentials of education which allows YOU to cast such negative comments on such an institution.

This is not hard to find out and it only took a moment but here is just a few of the men who have attended DTS and have actually made contributions to the world we live in by getting out the Word of God and leading the lost to Christ so that they can be saved-(FromDallas Theological Seminary - Wikipedia

• Gregory Beale, former president of the Evangelical Theological Society

• Michael J. Easley, former president of Moody Bible Institute

• Tony Evans, pastor and widely-syndicated radio broadcaster

• F. David Farnell, professor of New Testament at The Master's Seminary

• Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish scholar and founder of Ariel Ministries

• Chip Ingram, pastor and orator, founder of Living on the Edge

• Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas

• David Jeremiah, author, pastor of Shadow Mountain Community Church

• Mark Keough, Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives

• David Klingler, former NFL player and current professor of Bible Exposition

• Hal Lindsey, author of The Late, Great Planet Earth

• Duane Litfin, former president of Wheaton College

• J. Vernon McGee, founder of "Thru the Bible Radio Network" program

• Paul Nyquist, current president of Moody Bible Institute

• Scott O'Grady, pilot whose story formed the basis for the film Behind Enemy Lines

• Ernest Pickering, former president of Central Baptist Theological Seminary of Minneapolis

• Jim Rayburn, founder of Young Life

• Andy Stanley, author, and pastor of North Point Community Church

• Ray Stedman, evangelical Christian pastor, and author.

• Joseph Stowell, former president of Moody Bible Institute, president of Cornerstone University

• Chuck Swindoll, author, pastor of Stonebriar Community Church

• Kenneth N. Taylor, creator of The Living Bible and the founder of Tyndale House

• John Townsend, Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No & Take Control of Your Life

• D. A. Waite, president of Dean Burgon Society and pastor of Bible For Today Baptist Church

• Bruce Wilkinson, founder of Walk Thru the Bible and author of The Prayer of Jabez

All of those men......and many more according to YOU are wrong in their theology and YOU, according to YOU are right. What are your educational credentials to support such an idea?????

 

[Major1]

Very informative Riberra.

I have dealt personally with a co-worker friend who was a deacon at his church and a 3rd degree mason. Mason’s at the lower levels are deceived and ignorant of what is truly involved, the masonic organization at it’s foundation is satanic and I am convinced those at the upper levels know that. It is sad how many who claim Christ are involved in this evil organization.

This just might be a good topic for a thread.

I agree! @Riberra, starting a thread on Masonic lodge and discussion on this thread is really
not applicable.

You brought it up so why don't you start it?

 

[Riberra]

This is not hard to find out and it only took a moment but here is just a few of the men who have attended DTS and have actually made contributions to the world we live in by getting out the Word of God and leading the lost to Christ so that they can be saved-(FromDallas Theological Seminary - Wikipedia

• Gregory Beale, former president of the Evangelical Theological Society

• Michael J. Easley, former president of Moody Bible Institute

• Tony Evans, pastor and widely-syndicated radio broadcaster

• F. David Farnell, professor of New Testament at The Master's Seminary

• Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish scholar and founder of Ariel Ministries

• Chip Ingram, pastor and orator, founder of Living on the Edge

• Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas

• David Jeremiah, author, pastor of Shadow Mountain Community Church

• Mark Keough, Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives

• David Klingler, former NFL player and current professor of Bible Exposition

• Hal Lindsey, author of The Late, Great Planet Earth

• Duane Litfin, former president of Wheaton College

• J. Vernon McGee, founder of "Thru the Bible Radio Network" program

• Paul Nyquist, current president of Moody Bible Institute

• Scott O'Grady, pilot whose story formed the basis for the film Behind Enemy Lines

• Ernest Pickering, former president of Central Baptist Theological Seminary of Minneapolis

• Jim Rayburn, founder of Young Life

• Andy Stanley, author, and pastor of North Point Community Church

• Ray Stedman, evangelical Christian pastor, and author.

• Joseph Stowell, former president of Moody Bible Institute, president of Cornerstone University

• Chuck Swindoll, author, pastor of Stonebriar Community Church

• Kenneth N. Taylor, creator of The Living Bible and the founder of Tyndale House

• John Townsend, Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No & Take Control of Your Life

• D. A. Waite, president of Dean Burgon Society and pastor of Bible For Today Baptist Church

• Bruce Wilkinson, founder of Walk Thru the Bible and author of The Prayer of Jabez

All of those men......and many more according to YOU are wrong in their theology and YOU, according to YOU are right. What are your educational credentials to support such an idea?????

If they are preaching that being saved means being raptured to Heaven -while alive- before the tribulation, then they are preaching another gospel.Jesus have come to the Earth to Save our SOUL from eternal damnation into the lake of fire[if we believe Him and remain faitful until our death]

Luke 21:16-19
16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.

17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

 

[BABerean2]

Of course I support your right to your opinion. Now of course I have to ask you, when did you attend DTS????

It seems to me that for anyone to cast the dispurgeons that you are casting, you should be required to actually have been a part of such things instead of just copy and pasting the opinions of others who may or may not have a personal agenda against said operations.

It is just like talking with a man who is having Post combat problems. You can sit and talk and console and say...."I know, I understand, I agree" BUT if YOU have never been in actual combat YOU can not say those things because you have no actual frame of consciousness in order to do so.

Your attacks on DTS come from the fact that it does not agree with YOUR perspective of theology and it makes you angry. So what to do........cast doubts and dispurgeons on the one who disagrees with you. That my dear brother is classic.

The know fact about DTS is that it has been known as a center of modern Dispensational teaching.
That is in no way a bif secret that you are promoting. Actually, due to Dr. Lewis Chafer's development of a systematic theology, a system of exegesis of the Bible which approaches the Bible with a "premillennial, dispensational interpretation of the Scriptures."

THAT is what you are arguing against. It is NOT the seminary you are troubled by, but the Bible doctrine it teaches that you do not agree with.

My guess is that you have never opened the book Dr. Chafer wrote titled..... Systematic Theology.
Again, it is my guess that you are condemming that which you know nothing about except what you have read on website that agree with your agenda.

Now then. You are very vocal and very negative and the bottom line fact is that no one here on this site knows YOUR personal credentials of education which allows YOU to cast such negative comments on such an institution.

This is not hard to find out and it only took a moment but here is just a few of the men who have attended DTS and have actually made contributions to the world we live in by getting out the Word of God and leading the lost to Christ so that they can be saved-(FromDallas Theological Seminary - Wikipedia

• Gregory Beale, former president of the Evangelical Theological Society

• Michael J. Easley, former president of Moody Bible Institute

• Tony Evans, pastor and widely-syndicated radio broadcaster

• F. David Farnell, professor of New Testament at The Master's Seminary

• Arnold Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish scholar and founder of Ariel Ministries

• Chip Ingram, pastor and orator, founder of Living on the Edge

• Robert Jeffress, pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas

• David Jeremiah, author, pastor of Shadow Mountain Community Church

• Mark Keough, Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives

• David Klingler, former NFL player and current professor of Bible Exposition

• Hal Lindsey, author of The Late, Great Planet Earth

• Duane Litfin, former president of Wheaton College

• J. Vernon McGee, founder of "Thru the Bible Radio Network" program

• Paul Nyquist, current president of Moody Bible Institute

• Scott O'Grady, pilot whose story formed the basis for the film Behind Enemy Lines

• Ernest Pickering, former president of Central Baptist Theological Seminary of Minneapolis

• Jim Rayburn, founder of Young Life

• Andy Stanley, author, and pastor of North Point Community Church

• Ray Stedman, evangelical Christian pastor, and author.

• Joseph Stowell, former president of Moody Bible Institute, president of Cornerstone University

• Chuck Swindoll, author, pastor of Stonebriar Community Church

• Kenneth N. Taylor, creator of The Living Bible and the founder of Tyndale House

• John Townsend, Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No & Take Control of Your Life

• D. A. Waite, president of Dean Burgon Society and pastor of Bible For Today Baptist Church

• Bruce Wilkinson, founder of Walk Thru the Bible and author of The Prayer of Jabez

All of those men......and many more according to YOU are wrong in their theology and YOU, according to YOU are right. What are your educational credentials to support such an idea?????

At one time I was a deacon at a conservative Bible Church.

Some time later we had a retired pastor and his wife join the church.

He was a graduate of DTS and talked the pastors into teaching Dispensational Theology in Sunday School.

One of the classes he taught was titled "Things to Come" by Dr. Dwight Pentecost. I bought the book and read it. Therefore, I do understand the doctrine promoted by the seminary. However, I would say that very few of those sitting in the pews have an understanding of the doctrine.


I presented the results of the following research to the deacon board of my Church. After the presentation, I produced the following YouTube video to document what I had found.

Some of those in the church did not want those sitting in the pews to know the results of my research. Soon after, they started finding something wrong with me.


The man who was the chief promoter of the doctrine talked to me like a dog who had wet the carpet and knew better, the next Sunday in the sanctuary of the Church.

It was a replay of an earlier event.

At one time Benjamin Newton and John Darby worked together in the early Plymouth Brethren movement. Sometime later Darby adopted the "Secret Rapture" doctrine of the Irvingites and then divided scripture into that for the Church and that for Israel. When Newton would not accept Darby's new doctrine, Darby launched a personal attack on Newton that split the group. The same spirit is alive and well today. Anyone who dares to speak against Darby's doctrine will likely experience the same thing. It has become one of the primary ways the doctrine defends itself.

You do not need to list any more names. Adrian Rogers was always one of my favorite preachers. He may not have attended the seminary, but he did teach much of the doctrine. However, I do not have to agree with everything he taught. Everything he said must be examined based on God's Word. If he were still with us, I am sure he would agree.

One of the people in my Wed. night home Bible study group is a retired pastor, who is a graduate of DTS. He is a friend of mine, even though we do not always agree on doctrine.


There was one well known pastor who stood up against the doctrine.
You may have heard of him.
His name was Charles Haddon Spurgeon.

I do not base what I believe on Spurgeon, either.
Like all the others, he is accountable to scripture.

You have turned my disagreement with the doctrine into a personal attack upon the men you listed. In doing this, you are doing the exact same thing that Darby did to Newton.
If this is what is required to defend your doctrine, it should be exposed for what it really is.


.

 

[keras]

NOPE! It is what it is and truth allways cuts like a two edged sword.

We will soon see the truth of God's plans for His people.
Things will take place as Written, or else our Bibles are of no value.
With the beliefs you have, Major1, you just may feel the cutting edge of the truth and I really feel sad for the millions of Christians who have been deceived by false teaching, as the wrath of God strikes the earth.

 

[Riberra]

This is always the case. When Bible truth can not be accepted it leaves you with no option except to try and place some kind of discredit on those that do not agree with you.

You have not find the mention in Revelation that the great crowd arrayed in white robes have been raptured to Heaven while they were alive.

I have made the demonstration that they are all wearing similar white clothing attribued to the martyrs mentioned at the 5th seal.You have just ignored what i wrote.
So to refresh your memory.
Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



Revelation 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

I have pointed out to you that the original text say that they came out of GREAT TRIBULATION....... which mean that they died martyrs like those mentioned in the 5th seal.

 

[Major1]

You have not find the mention in Revelation that the great crowd arrayed in white robes have been raptured to Heaven while they were alive.

I have made the demonstration that they are all wearing similar white clothing attribued to the martyrs mentioned at the 5th seal.You have just ignored what i wrote.
So to refresh your memory.
Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.



Revelation 7
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

I have pointed out to you that the original text say that they came out of GREAT TRIBULATION....... which mean that they died martyrs like those mentioned in the 5th seal.

And the 5 translations you asked for were posted and they all said The GREAT Tribulation.

These would then be the martyrs who came out of the Tribulation and are NOT part of the church.

The Great Tribulation is the last 3 and 1/2 years of the 7 year Tribulation Period.

 

[Riberra]

And the 5 translations you asked for were posted and they all said The GREAT Tribulation.

Can you explain why the KJV does not have written"THE great tribulation ....
I have given the text as written in the KJV which is These are they which came out of great tribulation

Why your 5 versions deliberately add a vord ?

These would then be the martyrs who came out of the Tribulation and are NOT part of the church.

The Great Tribulation is the last 3 and 1/2 years of the 7 year Tribulation Period.

those who will be killed during the 3 and 1/2 years of the reign of the Beast because they refuse to worship the beast and take the mark arrive in Heaven only in Revelation 15:2.

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.