Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[Bible Highlighter]

You know there's such a thing as partial preterism right? In fact, I don't think anyone here believes in full preterism. So... your incredulity is misdirected.

I was aware of Partial Preterism for a while now.
But I am not sure you are aware of what all Partial Preterists believe.

They believe that all prophecy has been fulfilled except the last 2-3 chapters of Revelation.

https://gotquestions.org/partial-preterism.html

So what I have stated still stands and is true. They falsely believe that the Antichrist, the Mark, the Seal, Trumpet, and bowl judgments have happened already. Now, could there be Partial Preterists who believe slightly different out there? Sure. But the point is that they are ignoring on some level the events of Revelation as they are plainly written.


....

 

[Straightshot]

The preterist, full or partial, is forced to make metaphorical allegory out of the literal visions of the prophets

Ask one to render Zechariah 14 and see what you get .... all of this passage is still pending as we speak .... 100%

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, I believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture and yet I also believe that the majority of saints who are beheaded during the Tribulation are Gentiles of all nations. This is because they refused to take the Mark of the Beast. The 144,000 are Messianic believers who are protected during the Tribulation. The Jews as a nation will also repent shortly before Christ's 2nd Coming, as well. But the events in the Tribulation is not all about driving Israel to repent and accept the true Messiah. The full number of the Gentiles needs to be met so that the End will come. That End is Jesus Christ returning. So when the last Gentile repents of their sins here upon this Earth.... Jesus is coming.

But before all this, believers today have a chance to miss out on the Wrath to come. They do not have to go thru it if they believe or trust in Jesus and His Word. There are plenty of verses that back up the Rapture. I already provided some great apologetics for the Pre-Trib Rapture in my End Times Chronology thread.

To find that thread at any time, just go to Google and type in the keywords:

End Times Chronology Jason0047 site:christianforums.com

But please be advised it is a Pre-Trib Only Thread. So that means only folks who believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture can reply there.


...

 

[Straightshot]

I know that the Lord is going to make His true ecclesia immortal just before He brings His unrelenting judgment upon an unbelieving world

Your post above is solid

 

[Major1]

There are, of course, many fulfilled prophesies. It takes good discernment to know what has happened and what awaits fulfilment.

Re Israel; because you believe in the church being taken to heaven, while Israel faces tribulation, you believe in ethnic, Jewish Israel being restored.
This idea contradicts firstly, the many prophesies about the final Judgement of Judah and only a remnant will be saved.
Secondly, Jesus and the Apostles made it clear: there is only one people of God. Ethnicity, race, gender, or whatever no longer counts for anything, only true belief and faith in God.
Thirdly, there is the hidden truth of the actual House of Israel, the 10 Northern tribes, lost to history and still scattered among the nations. THEY are the people that Hosea 1:10 is talking about. It is them, us Caucasian Westerners, that have embraced the Christian faith and are now the inheritors of God's promises to Israel.
Look forward to the Day of our Redemption and the great Blessings of God to His people!

Israel restored was told to us in that...Jacob’s descendants would regain control of Israel.
Bible passage: Amos 9:14-15
Written: about 750 BC
Fulfilled: Since 1948

Bible prophecy also says that Israel would be brought back to life.
Bible passage: Ezekiel 37:10-14
Written: between 593-571 BC
Fulfilled: 1948

Isaiah spoke of a Israel being reborn in one day!
Bible passage: Isaiah 66:7-8
Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
Fulfilled: 1948

The prophet foreshadowed the re-birth of Israel in 1948. Isaiah describes a woman giving birth before going into labor, and he speaks of a country being born in one day. This accurately describes what happened on May 14, 1948 - when the Jews declared independence for Israel as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in 2900 years.

The people of Israel would return to “their own land”
Bible passage: Ezekiel 34:13
Written: between 593-571 BC
Fulfilled: after May 14, 1948

The prophet said that God would gather the people of Israel scattered throughout the world and bring them back to “their own land.”

Israel’s army would be disproportionately powerful
Bible passage: Leviticus 26:3, 7-8
Written: perhaps around 1400 BC
Fulfilled: 1948-49, 1967, etc.

The Bible says that the army of Israel would have a supernatural power to prevail during times of conflict, if the people are obedient to the Lord. This Bible passage says that 5 people would be able to chase away 100 people, and that 100 would be able to chase away 10,000. Is there any proof to this incredible claim? Judge for yourself.

NO ONE is ever lost my friend. YOU and I may not know where the lost Jewish person is, but God does.

 

[keras]

But please be advised it is a Pre-Trib Only Thread. So that means only folks who believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture can reply there.

Why? Are you worried the rapture may be refuted?
You say there are plenty of verses that back up a rapture. Maybe, if you see them with a pre conceived view.
But what is essential before any 'back up', is a proof text that God does actually intend to take His Church to heaven.
I have read the Bible right thru many times and such a prophecy is not there. What God does promise is for all His righteous Christian people, is to gather and live in all of the holy Land, as He always intended His people to be. Ezekiel 34:11-31

 

[keras]

Israel restored was told to us in that...Jacob’s descendants would regain control of Israel.
Bible passage: Amos 9:14-15
Written: about 750 BC
Fulfilled: Since 1948

Jesus said: The Kingdom will be taken from you, [Jews] and given to a nation that bears the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43
Jesus said: As for those of Satan's synagogue, who falsely claim to be Jews, [Israelis] I will make them fall at your feet and they will know you, [Christians] are My beloved people. Revelations 3:9

Amos 9:8b-15 is a prophecy for ALL of Israel, not just the Jewish remnant. It isn't fulfilled as yet; they do not possess what remains of Edom, all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates.

 

[LastSeven]

Nowhere in the Scriptures are we taught that the bodies of all men will be raised at the same time.

Right.

Except here
Acts 24:15
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

and here
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

It is true that all the dead will be raised and brought into judgment, but neither the time, the place, nor the judgments are the same.

Of course, nowhere in scripture are we actually taught that there are two different times of judgment.

The Bible clearly distinguishes between a first and a second resurrection. Allow me to say to you about the The First Resurrection.

1 Thess. 4:16.......
“For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first”.

Actually, scripture proves that this is not a reference to the first resurrection but the second.

The challenge now is that we must distinguish between Christ’s coming for His own at the "Rapture/Catching Away" before the millennium

There's those nasty assumptions again. Nowhere does scripture actually teach that Jesus returns before the millennium. In fact, I can prove that he returns at the end.

Let there be no misunderstanding that it is a settled fact that there is at least a one thousand year interval between the First and the Second Resurrection.

Only if you believe "the thousand years" to be a literal thousand years.

(First Stage)....
When our Lord was crucified on the Cross, we read in Matt. 27:51-52.......
“And, behold the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose” .

Note that scripture does not say whether they were permanently raised with spiritual bodies, as we will be, or if they were temporarily raised only to die again of old age.

The fact that they went into the city to preach, rather than into heaven where spiritual bodies dwell, is a strong indication that they were raised merely with their old physical bodies.

(Second Stage)....
There is the second stage found as I said in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, when all true believers are raised at the first appearance of Christ. To this we add the Apostle Paul’s word in First Corinthians:15:52.....
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed”.

Note that neither of those chapters claim that only the righteous are raised, nor that these events occur at the beginning of the thousand years. Those are at least inferences on your part, if not assumptions.

(Third Stage)....
The third and final stage of the First Resurrection occurs seven years after the resurrection of saints at Christ’s coming at the rapture.

No scriptural support for this one?

 

[LastSeven]

But the point is that they are ignoring on some level the events of Revelation as they are plainly written.

Or understanding them differently than you.

 

[Major1]

This contradicts 1 Peter 1:1 and James 1:1, also Amos 9:9
Josephus, writing 100 AD, said: the 10 tribes remain scattered around the world and are beyond numbering.

SS, you hate, and that isn't too strong a word, the truth of how we Christians are the Israel of God.
It destroys the rapture to heaven of the Church theory. Tough!

NOPE! Do you have ANY Bible Scriptures to validate your opinions????

You are incorrect my friend. When a Jew accepts Messiah Jesus they are then a member of God's Church. That action does not in any diminish the nation of Israel in any way.

Rom. 11:1-3.........
"I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel.

Romans 11:25-29...............
"For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, lest you be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and thus all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion. He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.” “And this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable,".

It is apparent from the above Scripture that God is not finished with Israel. Paul tells us that a partial hardening has happened to Israel. This is so the Gentiles can be included in the covenantal faithfulness of God in his redemptive work. This was prophesied in Genesis 12:3 and reiterated in Galatians 3:8. In those two verses, God says that in Abraham all the nations will be blessed. Paul quotes Gen. 12:3 in Galatians and calls it the gospel.

Obviously, God in his great and sovereign plan has worked all things after the counsel of his will (Eph. 1:11) so that the Gentiles would be saved. When the time of the Gentiles is over, the Rapture will remove the Believers (Church) God will move upon Israel during the 7 year Tribulation Period. They will accept Jesus as the Messiah, and they will become a great and powerful nation used by God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why? Are you worried the rapture may be refuted?

No. The point of my End Times Chronology thread is more of a study thread on the End Times as a whole and not just the Pre-Trib Rapture. It is also about the Tribulation, the Millennium, the Judgment, and the Final New Earth.

In other words, I don't want anything to interrupt a nice clean study thread. Which is sort of like the following thing (see spoiler) that can happen when one buys a nice clean carpet:

Spoiler

If you want to debate what I had written there, you are free to quote what I said within that thread and reply to it here.

You say there are plenty of verses that back up a rapture. Maybe, if you see them with a pre conceived view.

I used to believe in the Pre-Wrath View for a short time. It was the weight of evidence in Scripture for the Pre-Trib Rapture that turned me back to believing in it again. Besides, if I am wrong, there is nothing to lose. I will be like, "Oh, I suppose I was wrong and need to brush up better on my Eschatology." But if you are wrong, you have the most to lose. You will go thru the Tribulation when you don't have to.

But what is essential before any 'back up', is a proof text that God does actually intend to take His Church to heaven.
I have read the Bible right thru many times and such a prophecy is not there.

That is because you are reading the Bible from a pre-conceived view.
You can't see it because you don't want to see it (Even when the Bible plainly talks about it).

What God does promise is for all His righteous Christian people, is to gather and live in all of the holy Land, as He always intended His people to be. Ezekiel 34:11-31

There are going to be two spiritual resurrections or Raptures and there are going to be two physical flesh and blood resurrections.

(a) Pre-Trib Rapture (Spiritual Resurrection).
(b) Rapture sometime before Christ's 2nd Coming (Spiritual Resurrection).
(c) Bodily Resurrection of Saints Before the Millennium.
(d) Bodily Resurrection of Saints After the Millennium.


The reason for there being two of each is because the numver "two" stands for the second birth that all believers need to have.


...

 

[Straightshot]

Here is the Lord comprehensive position with his nation of Israel, past and future .... nothing has changed

Many other scriptures tell the same irrefutable truth

No Gentiles of the nations are included except specifically the enemies noted

And neither are any Gentiles who claim to be of the ethnic nation of Israel seen in the passage

The Lord's word cannot be refuted

Ezekiel
36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here is the Lord comprehensive position with his nation of Israel, past and future .... nothing has changed

Many other scriptures tell the same irrefutable truth

No Gentiles of the nations are included except specifically the enemies noted

And neither are any Gentiles who claim to be of the ethnic nation of Israel seen in the passage

The Lord's word cannot be refuted

Ezekiel
36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

There will be Gentile believers during the Tribulation.

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; " (Revelation 7:9).

13 "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Revelation 7:13-14).

Obviously these Gentile believers (who go thru the Tribulation) are the result of new believers who came to Christ after the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place.


...

 

[Major1]

Right.

Except here
Acts 24:15
and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

and here
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.


Of course, nowhere in scripture are we actually taught that there are two different times of judgment.

Actually, scripture proves that this is not a reference to the first resurrection but the second.

There's those nasty assumptions again. Nowhere does scripture actually teach that Jesus returns before the millennium. In fact, I can prove that he returns at the end.

Only if you believe "the thousand years" to be a literal thousand years

Note that scripture does not say whether they were permanently raised with spiritual bodies, as we will be, or if they were temporarily raised only to die again of old age.

The fact that they went into the city to preach, rather than into heaven where spiritual bodies dwell, is a strong indication that they were raised merely with their old physical bodies.

Note that neither of those chapters claim that only the righteous are raised, nor that these events occur at the beginning of the thousand years. Those are at least inferences on your part, if not assumptions.

No scriptural support for this one?

Acts 24:15 actually confirm that fact that there are TWO resurrections. One for the righteous and one for the wicked and as I posted for you, they are separated by 1000 years.

As for 1 Corth. 15:22, again it is telling us that "ALL in Christ shall be made alive".
That of course confirms the Rapture AND the fact that the ones without Christ are not resurrected until 1000 later.

And you missed it again. YES there are two Judgments.

The "Great White Throne Judgment" is found in Revelation 20:11-15..........
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire".

This is the judgment of the lost of all ages. IF you will read the Revelation you will find that chronologically, it is AFTER the 1000 year rule of Christ. This is the SECOND Resurrection and it is a resurrection unto death!

The Great White Throne Judgment is NOT for Christians. It is only for those who refuse to accept the Lord Jesus Christ in this earthly life. To avoid this judgment, all one must do is repent and believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and invite Him to become his or her Lord and Savior.

Romans 8:1
"[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

The 1st Judgment is the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Romans 14:10–12 says to the beliebers in Rome...........
“For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God” .

2 Corinthians 5:10 tells us..........
“We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

In context, it is clear that both passages refer to Christians, not unbelievers. The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ confirms that that are TWO Judgments.

The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1). We should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives.

YES......the 1000 years are literal. Do you have any Scriptures which tell us that they are not Literal.

Listen. I believe I can help you. There is an excellent on line web site called......
"The ABC's of Prophecy"......https://www.raptureready.com/abc/Judgment_Seat_of_Christ.html

I think it will answer all of these false ideas that you have. Please give it a try. You really do not have anything to lose.

 

[keras]

NOPE! Do you have ANY Bible Scriptures to validate your opinions????

You are incorrect my friend. When a Jew accepts Messiah Jesus they are then a member of God's Church. That action does not in any diminish the nation of Israel in any way.

There are scriptures aplenty that prove Christians are the Israel of God.
The has to be at least 12,000 Jewish believers. Revelation 7:5a They join with the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, in the holy Land.

When the time of the Gentiles is over, the Rapture will remove the Believers (Church) God will move upon Israel during the 7 year Tribulation Period. They will accept Jesus as the Messiah, and they will become a great and powerful nation used by God.

This statement requires scriptures to validate your opinions. But I know you are wrong because what you think will happen, isn't what God has planned and His prophets tell us.

 

[keras]

Here is the Lord comprehensive position with his nation of Israel, past and future .... nothing has changed

Absolutely wrong! Jesus changed it all. He made a New Covenant and now salvation is open to everyone. Ethnicity counts for nothing.
Your teachings of error are a serious indictment against you.

 

[keras]

In other words, I don't want anything to interrupt a nice clean study thread. Which is sort of like the following thing (see spoiler) that can happen when one buys a nice clean carpet:

Yes, I notice how all you rapture believers close ranks against anyone who challenges that belief. You confirm that idea amongst yourselves and feel good that others agree.
I know that for many of you, the rapture is the only end times event taught for the Church. Any other possibility just isn't mentioned.
So when someone like myself points out the shortcomings and misunderstandings of the rapture theory, it causes upset and often a quite violent reaction.
But wouldn't it be better to believe the truth? It is written, just look for it with an open mind. Why be in the dark about what must happen?

 

[John Hyperspace]

I would encourage you to consider this teaching that helped me understand the difficult things of the Scriptures.

I always listen with an open mind, then rigorously test all things against the proverbial touchstone of the scripture itself. If the rapture were in the scripture, I would have no problem believing the truth of it. I find it not only entirely absent from scripture, but the complete opposite of what the scripture actually teaches. The theory is a form of eisegesis; a "reading into" the scripture something that is not taught by scripture. I believe in the second coming because the scripture clearly teaches "He will come again" "a second time" and the scripture clearly teaches this. I believe in a "three" because the scripture clearly teaches "Father, Son and Holy Spirit"; I believe in divine protection because the scripture clearly teaches "I will be with you" "fear not the things to come" "I will guard you"

I do not believe that there is a "secret coming before the second coming" because there is no such a thing taught in scripture. I do not believe in a "I will remove you from the earth to avoid tribulation" because there is no such a thing taught in scripture. Not only are these concepts entirely absent from scripture, but they are the opposite of what the scripture actually teaches; such as we are to endure tribulation with joy, we are not to wish to avoid suffering for Christ, Christ does not pray for us to be taken out of the world- but He prays we be kept/guarded from the evil.

There is also the fact that "candlesticks" are defined as a symbol of "churches" and we see candlesticks at the judgment of the temple of God; the candlesticks have no been "taken out of the world" to avoid anything. The fact that Paul clearly teaches we are "alive and remaining" until the coming of the Lord, which coming destroys the son of perdition. Nothing about the rapture makes sense, nothing about a removal from the earth prior to the second coming is taught anywhere in scripture, and the entire doctrine teaches the inverse of what the scripture clearly teaches.

Now John, Let me ask you this....

What do you believe what happened to Enoch?
What do you believe happened to Elijah?

Enoch was translated; Elijah went up in a whirlwind. I would note that Elijah went up in a whirlwind after the persecution by Jezebel and after the 42 months of drought. You will notice a 42 month period in the Revelation 13:5: you will also note this is the precise length of time of Elijah's ministry: James 5:17; so even the Elijah account disproves the rapture since Elijah went up after the 42 months were expired. Elijah was not taken up to avoid anything at all.

 

[Major1]

Yes, I notice how all you rapture believers close ranks against anyone who challenges that belief. You confirm that idea amongst yourselves and feel good that others agree.
I know that for many of you, the rapture is the only end times event taught for the Church. Any other possibility just isn't mentioned.
So when someone like myself points out the shortcomings and misunderstandings of the rapture theory, it causes upset and often a quite violent reaction.
But wouldn't it be better to believe the truth? It is written, just look for it with an open mind. Why be in the dark about what must happen?

My experience over the years is that the one who rejects the Rapture eventually becomes very personal in his responses.

 

[Straightshot]

"Your teachings of error are a serious indictment against you"

Your indictment is made null and void [Revelation 3:10]