Where in Revelation is a Rapture Mentioned?

[Straightshot]

"I always listen with an open mind, then rigorously test all things against the proverbial touchstone of the scripture itself"


So listen

The Lord is already watching as we speak .... He always has been and is

Do you know all of the scriptures that tell of His early pre-tribulation call and the proof of the same?

He will intervene as a thief with no warning .... an His true ecclesia will be made immortal in the twinkling of an eye

The He will pour out His unmitigated wrath upon a world of unbelief .... this is His purpose [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17]

So you think that you will be a subject of His wrath in the tribulation for unbelief?

Right?

If not, explain and give all of the scriptures that rebuke His intent .... and the proof

Know that His next intervention is one thing and His visible appearance upon the earth is another thing, both separated by 2550 days of His unprecedented judgment

I would suggest that you consider your current position .... it could be a matter of life or death for you

 

[Major1]

There are scriptures aplenty that prove Christians are the Israel of God.
The has to be at least 12,000 Jewish believers. Revelation 7:5a They join with the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, in the holy Land.

This statement requires scriptures to validate your opinions. But I know you are wrong because what you think will happen, isn't what God has planned and His prophets tell us.

My dear friend. The New Testament offers no text replacing Israel with the church.

You are welcome to believe the false teaching done on internet website, but there is NONE!!!

Yes there will be 12,000 Jews from the 12 tribes of Jews. The Bible says 12,000 form each tribe so it is actually at least 144,000.....Converted Jewish men. They will not be part of the church but will be the Tribulation saints because they will be saved after the church is Raptured then there will be 7 years of Tribulation.

They will be in the Holy Land as they are right now! I do not know what version of the Bible you are reading but They will NOT be a nation at all.
They will in fact be killed and will struggle until they are martyred.

Rev 7:9 ......
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

Rev 7:14 ..........
"And I said unto him, Sir, you know. . And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So as you can see, not just 144,000 Jews “make it to heaven,” as some people think, but many more do also. They have been persecuted or put to death as martyrs of the faith. They have been tested as faithful during the tribulation, and made it to heaven.

Does that sound like they became a nation?????

The point of the tribulation is to give mankind one last chance to repent, before the wrath of God hits. God would be wasting his time doing this, if He had already picked out the only ones to be saved before the tribulation starts.

The 144,000 just happens to be a special group – the first to be saved in the land of Israel, that God sets aside as his first fruits. FIRST fruits means there is MORE fruits to come because they will lead a great multitude to Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, I notice how all you rapture believers close ranks against anyone who challenges that belief. You confirm that idea amongst yourselves and feel good that others agree.
I know that for many of you, the rapture is the only end times event taught for the Church. Any other possibility just isn't mentioned.
So when someone like myself points out the shortcomings and misunderstandings of the rapture theory, it causes upset and often a quite violent reaction.
But wouldn't it be better to believe the truth? It is written, just look for it with an open mind. Why be in the dark about what must happen?

I have seen violent and hostile reactions to my mention of the Pre-Trib Rapture. So the door swings both ways. Both sides can be blamed. But who has the truth?

Now, some Christians may be insulted by your saying there is no Rapture because it is our blessed hope. In other words, you attack that which we hope for. That would be like someone attacking our hope of salvation. In fact, in a way the Rapture is salvation. We are being saved from the Wrath to come. How would you react if someone said that the hope of your salvation is false?

Also, I said you can reply to what I had written here. I didn't want to turn that thread into a debate thread but a study thread. For should every article and book be online whereby it should have comments questioning it? There is a difference between resources or tools so as to study vs. (versus) resources used to debate.

...

 

[miamited]

Hi SS,

You wrote:

So you think that you will be a subject of His wrath in the tribulation for unbelief?

What I think is that the time of God's wrath and the tribulation are not the same thing or happen at the same time. The tribulation is a time of persecution against the believers brought on by the one against Christ. It is a time that Jesus warned us would be worse than the world has ever seen as an attack against God's word and God's people. The wrath of God comes after the tribulation. Between the tribulation that comes from a man upon the earth and the wrath of God, there will be an event in which all those who belong to Jesus will be removed from the earth and the soon coming wrath of God.

So, my position, yes, we (the believers alive when the tribulation comes) will endure the tribulation, but no, we will not endure the wrath of our God. For the Scriptures are clear that we are not destined for the wrath of God.

If you're interested in studying this position, there is a good book that is choc-a-bloc full of straight from Scripture references that shows describes and explains this point. 'The Sign' by Robert Van Kampen. As I say, only if you're interested in further studies on the subject.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Jezmeyah]

Once again a post about pettiness and not addressing the issue, beating around the bush.

If addressing the issue is so import to you, then by all means, address the issue.

The truth to you is like holy water to a vampire.

I enjoy the truth, and I do enjoy to be like holy water to a vampire. Thank you for the compliment.

precepts said:

What is the reason why I say there's no rapture?​

Would you tell me the reason why I can't answer that?

 

[keras]

My dear friend. The New Testament offers no text replacing Israel with the church.

Then I can only assume you haven't read the NT with eyes to see and ears to hear. Isaiah 29:9-12
“Father Abraham had many sons, many sons had father Abraham. I am one of them and so are you…,” so the old children’s song goes. Although it’s a silly song that requires the raising of arms, legs, and the nodding of heads, the song’s theology is unquestionably biblical. In Romans 4:1–16, the Apostle Paul explains that: Abraham is the father of us all.

As new Covenant believers, we have been justified by grace through faith alone because of the finished work of Christ. As an old Covenant believer: Abraham, the father of Israel, was justified by God’s grace alone through faith because of his faith in the future work of Christ. Abraham stood on the promised salvation of God in the Messiah who was to come just as we stand on the promised salvation of God in the Messiah who has come. True believers in the Old Testament were saved in the same way that true believers are saved in the New Testament— by faith, and by faith alone. Abraham believed the Lord, and He counted it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6 The Lord declared Abraham righteous because he believed, just as the Lord declares Christians righteous because we believe.
Thus, adoption into God’s family and eternal Covenant community is achieved not through having the right ethnicity, gender, land of birth, or language. Or because of Sabbath-keeping, or unconditional support of the State of Israel’s practices and policies. True Israel is believing Christian Israel, and only faithful Israel inherits God’s promises. And faithful Israelites are those circumcised in their hearts, those who have trusted in the Messiah. This is the way God has always fulfilled His purposes in saving His people. Romans 2:28–29

True Israel is faithful Israel because they have faith in the only truly righteous Israelite who has ever lived—Jesus the Messiah. Only Jesus completely fulfilled all of the Father’s righteous laws for Israel. As the faithful Israelite, Jesus is the true Israel because He is the true Son of God. Matthew 2:13–14

By faith in Jesus, the true Israelite, all people can be reckoned as true Israelites. All who are united by faith alone to Jesus the Christ are the true Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
As such, those of ethnic Israel who trust Jesus as their Messiah are closer to me than they are to their Jewish families who don’t believe in Jesus. Likewise, I am closer to Jewish believers in Christ than I am to my unbelieving Gentile family. For our Father has graciously made us His children having freed us from bondage in order to live as true Christian followers of Jesus, as the true Israel of God.

 

[Revealing Times]

I would like someone to please show me where a rapture is mentioned in Revelation since the only thing I see mentioned in Revelation are resurrections.

Where does it say there's a rapture if the 2nd advent, as described in the Olivet discourse, is the 2nd resurrection, where that generation, and those standing there at the time of the Olivet discourse, taste death after witnessing Christ coming into his kingdom, which is the New Yah-ru-Shalem?

If the Olivet discourse advent which is the gathering of the elect and the so-called 2nd return of Christ is the 2nd resurrection, when Christ supposedly returns to earth, how does anyone justify a rapture at the "1st resurrection" if there's no advent, no return of Christ to earth until the 2nd resurrection?

Food for thought

A falling away has definitely begun.

The Revelation is mostly about things that happen after the Rapture has occurred, so why are you looking for it in Revelation ?

Jesus talks about the Church some, then John is carried into the Future when he is told to COME UP HERE..........

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Jesus Shouts as if its a Trump....we go to meet him in the Air, and we are in the SPIRIT (Cor. 15) because our corrupt bodies can not go to heaven so we DIE and go to meet Jesus in the Spirit.

That is what happened to John, it signifies the Rapture, you just miss it.

 

[keras]

Now, some Christians may be insulted by your saying there is no Rapture because it is our blessed hope. In other words, you attack that which we hope for. That would be like someone attacking our hope of salvation. In fact, in a way the Rapture is salvation. We are being saved from the Wrath to come. How would you react if someone said that the hope of your salvation is false?

The Hope of our salvation is Jesus and in Him alone.
Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21 both say if we call out to Him on the Day of wrath, He will save us. Not by removal, but by protection.

I don't like causing upset, but won't it be extremely upsetting to be still stuck on earth when the SHTF?

 

[keras]

My experience over the years is that the one who rejects the Rapture eventually becomes very personal in his responses.

My experience is the same; from rapture believers! I have had some very nasty attacks and character assassinations from rabid rapturists.
I have had some success in convincing a few of the rapture false theory, but most remain locked into that very easy and escapist idea.
I can only think God wants it that way, even though the rapture is Satanically inspired, God allows it to fool many good Christians. When the going does get rough, then it will be very hard for anyone without a true knowledge of God's plans.

 

[Psalm3704]

So your answer to my question about how palm branches prove a pre-trib rapture is to say "you just don't understand"???

No, I was responding to what you said here.

In what universe are palm branches proof of a rapture?

In what universe are palm branches proof of a rapture?

​

How many universe are there?







.

 

[Psalm3704]

We await Jesus to come again from heaven and shake the earth with devouring fire and provided our faith cannot be shaken, we will remain, safely under His care. Isaiah 41:13, Psalms 31:23-24

Keras Keras Keras!!! The one who pulls verses out of context. The one who thinks he's the only one who knows old testament prophecies. The one who uses them trying to pull a wool over people's eyes.

Read the title, Isaiah 41 is not about the church, it's a prophecy about Israel.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=isaiah 41&version=NKJV;GNT;NLT

Read the verse, it even said Israel in it.

Isaiah 41:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
“But you, Israel, are My servant,
Jacob whom I have chosen,
The descendants of Abraham My friend.​

Keras, if you're from one of the 12 tribes of Jacob, which tribe are you from?

Do you have credential?

Someone might get a big laugh reading this.

we will remain, safely under His care. Isaiah 41:13, Psalms 31:23-24

Keras Keras Keras!!! The one who pulls verses out of context. The one who thinks he's the only one who knows old testament prophecies. The one who uses them trying to pull a wool over people's eyes.

Psalm 31:23-24 New King James Version (NKJV)
23 Oh, love the Lord, all you His saints!
For the Lord preserves the faithful,
And fully repays the proud person.
24 Be of good courage,
And He shall strengthen your heart,
All you who hope in the Lord.​

Psalm 31:23-24 only applies to those who are faithfully waiting upon the blessed hope that Christ promised to deliver His church before God's wrath.

Titus 2:13 New King James Version (NKJV)
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

1 Thessalonians 1:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.​

How has your faith of the rapture been so far?








.

 

[Douggg]

No, not if you can't.

I am just asking you to explain what you wrote. You said "2nd resurrection". What do you mean by 2nd resurrection? What bible verse(s) are you referring to?

 

[Major1]

My experience is the same; from rapture believers! I have had some very nasty attacks and character assassinations from rabid rapturists.
I have had some success in convincing a few of the rapture false theory, but most remain locked into that very easy and escapist idea.
I can only think God wants it that way, even though the rapture is Satanically inspired, God allows it to fool many good Christians. When the going does get rough, then it will be very hard for anyone without a true knowledge of God's plans.

You see what you just did?????

You say that you have had nasty attacks and character assassinations done to you. BUT what did YOU just do????
You just said......
"I can only think God wants it that way, even though the rapture is Satanically inspired, God allows it to fool many good Christians".

You are placing your opinions over and above those who accept the Scriptures. That my friend is a dangerous position to be in and it is not a good testimony for you personally. You are saying those who believe are satanically influenced BUT certainly not you !!!!!

Those of us who believe in the Rapture could just as easily say to YOU that you are the one Satanically influenced and are being fooled.

I would suggest that you post the Scriptures which denounce the Rapture instead of focusing on who believes what.

Until you do so, your opinion will remain exactly that...YOUR opinions.

 

[Major1]

The Hope of our salvation is Jesus and in Him alone.
Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21 both say if we call out to Him on the Day of wrath, He will save us. Not by removal, but by protection.

I don't like causing upset, but won't it be extremely upsetting to be still stuck on earth when the SHTF?

Neither one of the verses you posted said anything about ...."The day of Wrath".

I am not trying to be mean spirited my friend, but even when you do post a Scripture you take it out of context or use it to support your agenda instead of understanding what it means.

IF you would do some basic Bible 101 study you would have a better grasp of Bible Scriptures IMO.
Maybe if you would spend more time on Bible study instead of internet web site you understanding would improve. Just a thought.

 

[Major1]

The Revelation is mostly about things that happen after the Rapture has occurred, so why are you looking for it in Revelation ?

Jesus talks about the Church some, then John is carried into the Future when he is told to COME UP HERE..........

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

Jesus Shouts as if its a Trump....we go to meet him in the Air, and we are in the SPIRIT (Cor. 15) because our corrupt bodies can not go to heaven so we DIE and go to meet Jesus in the Spirit.

That is what happened to John, it signifies the Rapture, you just miss it.

He did not miss it. I told him exactly that several pages ago. He simply rejects it.

 

[LastSeven]

Acts 24:15 actually confirm that fact that there are TWO resurrections. One for the righteous and one for the wicked and as I posted for you, they are separated by 1000 years.

Really? "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust."

Again, that sounds like one resurrection to me. One resurrection of both the just and unjust.

It doesn't say "two" anywhere in there. It says "a".

 

[LastSeven]

Romans 8:1
"[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

The 1st Judgment is the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Romans 14:10–12 says to the beliebers in Rome...........
“For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God” .

2 Corinthians 5:10 tells us..........
“We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

In context, it is clear that both passages refer to Christians, not unbelievers.

Sorry, but I don't see it. When Paul says "all" he means "all", as in all people. He never said "all believers". We all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. There is absolutely no indication anywhere that this is not the same judgment as described in Revelation 20.

In fact, the context is clear that this is for both the righteous and the wicked for he says "so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." And the saints are washed clean, which means there is no record of anything bad we've done.

You've failed to show me any scripture that backs up your claims, and in fact all the scriptures you produce support my position.

 

[LastSeven]

YES......the 1000 years are literal. Do you have any Scriptures which tell us that they are not Literal.

There is no scripture that specifically says the thousand years are not literal, but seeing as more than a thousand literal years have already passed since we began to reign with Christ, it's clearly not literal.

So perhaps you should be asking, where is the proof that we already reign with Christ? If I could show you that would you then understand?

 

[LastSeven]

My dear friend. The New Testament offers no text replacing Israel with the church.

Well, technically that's true, but nobody's actually claiming that Christians replaced Israel. Rather, we've become citizens of Israel, and those who rejected Christ have lost their citizenship in Israel.

That is clearly in scripture. Does your Bible not have Ephesians 2? Maybe your Bible is defective.

 

[Major1]

Then I can only assume you haven't read the NT with eyes to see and ears to hear. Isaiah 29:9-12
“Father Abraham had many sons, many sons had father Abraham. I am one of them and so are you…,” so the old children’s song goes. Although it’s a silly song that requires the raising of arms, legs, and the nodding of heads, the song’s theology is unquestionably biblical. In Romans 4:1–16, the Apostle Paul explains that: Abraham is the father of us all.

As new Covenant believers, we have been justified by grace through faith alone because of the finished work of Christ. As an old Covenant believer: Abraham, the father of Israel, was justified by God’s grace alone through faith because of his faith in the future work of Christ. Abraham stood on the promised salvation of God in the Messiah who was to come just as we stand on the promised salvation of God in the Messiah who has come. True believers in the Old Testament were saved in the same way that true believers are saved in the New Testament— by faith, and by faith alone. Abraham believed the Lord, and He counted it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6 The Lord declared Abraham righteous because he believed, just as the Lord declares Christians righteous because we believe.
Thus, adoption into God’s family and eternal Covenant community is achieved not through having the right ethnicity, gender, land of birth, or language. Or because of Sabbath-keeping, or unconditional support of the State of Israel’s practices and policies. True Israel is believing Christian Israel, and only faithful Israel inherits God’s promises. And faithful Israelites are those circumcised in their hearts, those who have trusted in the Messiah. This is the way God has always fulfilled His purposes in saving His people. Romans 2:28–29

True Israel is faithful Israel because they have faith in the only truly righteous Israelite who has ever lived—Jesus the Messiah. Only Jesus completely fulfilled all of the Father’s righteous laws for Israel. As the faithful Israelite, Jesus is the true Israel because He is the true Son of God. Matthew 2:13–14

By faith in Jesus, the true Israelite, all people can be reckoned as true Israelites. All who are united by faith alone to Jesus the Christ are the true Israel of God. Galatians 6:16
As such, those of ethnic Israel who trust Jesus as their Messiah are closer to me than they are to their Jewish families who don’t believe in Jesus. Likewise, I am closer to Jewish believers in Christ than I am to my unbelieving Gentile family. For our Father has graciously made us His children having freed us from bondage in order to live as true Christian followers of Jesus, as the true Israel of God.

First of all, as I have suggested to you, if you would read the Bible and stay off websites that teach false doctrines, you would be better off.

Your postings from http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/the-true-israel-of-god/ are not helpful and all you are doing is parroting what someone else is saying. That web site is a supporter of R.C. Sproul who is an admitted "preterist" as is Hank Hanagraph.

Now then, Not one single verse you posted speaks to the Church replacing the Nation of Israel in God's plan.

You use Romans 4 as if you think it confirms your false teaching. Romans 4 is all about justification through faith. Abraham and David believed God. The nation of Israel began with Abraham and that has nothing to do with the church at all.

Both the Old Testament and the New Testament support a premillennial/dispensational understanding of God’s plan for Israel. The strongest support for premillennialism is found in the clear teaching of Revelation 20:1–7, where it says six times that Christ’s kingdom will last 1,000
literal years.

After the tribulation the Lord will return and establish His kingdom with the nation of Israel, Christ will reign over the whole earth, and Israel will be the leader of the nations. The church will reign with Him for a literal thousand years. The church has not replaced Israel in God's plan.

While God may be focusing His attention primarily on the church in this dispensation of grace, God has not forgotten Israel and will one day restore Israel to His intended role as the nation He has chosen (Romans 11).https://gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html