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Featured WHERE DOES IT SAY GOD'S SABBATH IS ABOLSIHED AND WE ARE COMMANDED TO KEEP SUNDAY AS A HOLY DAY?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Feb 8, 2019.

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  1. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    The Sabbath day according to the law is calculated from the occurrence of the new moon, which is a lunar calendar.

    You are correct aoh, the lunar Sabbath day varies each month and certainly is not the solar, Sabbath day equivalent. They most certainly rest on different Sabbath days compared to the law abiding Jews in Jerusalem.

    The law dictates the lunar Sabbath day but that creates mayhem for the legalist, because a lunar Sabbath occurs on differing solar days in each month. Working life for the SDA would be impossible.

    So obviously aon, they cannot obey the law to the letter as far as the Sabbath day is concerned.

    If they wish to rest on a solar Sabbath day then they can rest on that day. God will judge them anyway regardless of the day that the Sabbath occurs.

    The entire law was merely the blue print describing the fulfillment of all things by Jesus Christ. God cares not for the sacred festival assemblies nor for the Sabbaths, God is only interested in the new creation in Christ.
     
  2. Kermos

    Kermos God is the Potter, and we are the clay.

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    You write "The CONTEXT of LEVITICUS 23" in your very first sentence, and that word "CONTEXT" is your thoughts which you immediately try to impose your thoughts onto scripture. It appears that you disagree with God because God commands Moses "you shall proclaim as holy convocations - My appointed times are these:" in Leviticus 23:2, and then God immediately states "For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to YHVH in all your dwellings". That is God calling the weekly sabbath a holy convocation. Well, your "CONTEXT" is not God's Word nor God's context.
     
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  3. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Now after 39 pages seems no one is able to answer a single question from the OP here.....

    The challenge I am putting up here in the OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

    1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

    2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

    3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

    4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

    5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

    6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

    7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

    8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

    9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

    10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

    11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

    12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

    13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

    14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

    15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

    16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

    17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

    18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

    19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

    21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

    22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

    23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

    25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

    27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

    ...................

    Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

    God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

    MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
    [3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
    [4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
    [5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
    [6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
    [7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
    [8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

    Look forward to your thoughts...
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Not at all brother. Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. As shown earlier through the scriptures you mix up the Shadow laws from LEVITICUS 23 with Gods' ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken under the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11.

    As posted earlier the FEAST days and HOLY CONVOCATIONS are in reference to the ANNUAL FEASTIVALS. HOLY CONVOCATION means CALLED OUT to a PUBLIC ASSEMBLY. Now if there are no more ANNUAL FEAST DAYS and their ANNUAL HOLY CONCOVATIONS (called out public assemblies), How does this effect God's 4th Commandment which is not ANNUAL but WEEKLY?

    The SHADOW ceremonial sabbaths have already been defined and shown in the HEBREW word meaning as being "SPECIAL" sabbaths connected to annual Jewish festivals of Feasts of Trumpets (Lev 23:24) or Day of Atonement (Lev 23:32 or Feast of Booths (Lev 23:39). These special sabbaths are not God's 4th commandment and were connected directly to these feats and could fall on ANY DAY of the WEEK.

    These feasts are NOT fulfilled and Shadows of things to come Col 2 v17 (e.g. 2nd coming, close of probation and judgement and God's people saved from their temporary dwelling on earth to the earth made new) NOTE: Col v17, Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. It is NOT fulfilled and has NOT finished and IS to COME. These are temporary Shadow Sabbaths showing God's plan of salvation.

    This does not effect God's 4th Commandment as it is not yearly but weekly and one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what SIN is when broken *EXODUS 20:8-11; ROMANS 3:20.

    Sorry brother God's Word disagrees with you.
     
  5. Kermos

    Kermos God is the Potter, and we are the clay.

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    Hosea 2:11 indicates the end of ALL sabbaths thus pointing at Lord Jesus the One Who would make the perfect sacrifice being the Lord of the Sabbath with authority to become the giver of sabbath to all who believe on the name of Jesus Christ.

    I didn't say that Jesus broke the sabbath, I wrote that Apostle John wrote that Jesus broke the sabbath.

    But, since Jesus said:

    "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to satisfy" (Matthew 5:17).

    "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?" (Matthew 12:5)

    "But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent." (Matthew 12:7)

    "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath." (Matthew 12:8)

    "It is finished" (John 19:30).

    "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth" (Matthew 28:18)

    Jesus is God with authority to give rest every moment of every day.

    Lord Jesus was already Lord of the Sabbath when John witnessed the events recorded in John 5:7-18. Jesus told the disciples that the Helper would come and bring things back to their memory (John 14:26).

    In Matthew 12:1-8 the Lord Jesus and the disciples were traveling through the grainfields on the Sabbath and the disciples were picking and eating grain when the Pharisees made their accusation. This is NOT an example of Jesus healing the blind - this is traveling and picking grain and eating. Then in verse 9 "Departing from there, He went into their synagogue" in which a change of venue clearly takes place. Verses 10-12 He healed the man's withered hand. Don't forget about John 5:18 "He not only was breaking the Sabbath".

    Now, don't get me wrong, Jesus explitily stated:

    "it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" (Matthew 12:12)

    At that point, Jesus did not say "keep the Sabbath" rather He said to the man "Stretch out your hand!" The man stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other. Something else that Christ Jesus said is that He gives rest because the Lord of the Sabbath is our believers rest!

    There is no lawlessness in Christ, but there is lawlessness outside of Christ.
     
  6. NeedyFollower

    NeedyFollower Well-Known Member

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    Actually , even this world is but a shadow of things to come so I do not believe I am mixing it up , nor am I saying they are done away with ..they were fulfilled and replaced with a better . But being yet still carnal, we are prone to set our affections on things below rather than things above . For example , observing a day rather than observing Christ in His fullness which is better or is only one day better ? For in the new heavens and the new earth , we shall worship Him from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another . This is from Isaiah 66 :22-23 . I think this was fulfilled in Christ who is not the shadow ...In other words ..every day is the sabbath but I know we obviously disagree . I think everyday is now important , set apart and holy because of Jesus Christ who dwells in us and is also on the right hand of the Father making intercession for the saints...who never sleeps nor slumbers . Eternal in the heavens .
    Many 1st century believers were slaves and worked every day but they were Christ' freemen . They dwelt in Him every day . A shadow is cast by another object . Christ is the object ..the true substance of every commandment including the fourth.
     
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    Nope. No it doesn't. These are your words not God's WORD. Where does it say in HOSEA 2:11 that it is bringing an end to all Sabbaths?

    HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, her FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all her SOLEMN FEASTS.

    These are the special sabbaths and holy convocations that were in cnnection to ANNUAL FEAST days. As posted earlier the FEAST days and HOLY CONVOCATIONS are in reference to the ANNUAL FEASTIVALS. HOLY CONVOCATION means CALLED OUT to a PUBLIC ASSEMBLY. Now if there are no more ANNUAL FEAST DAYS and their ANNUAL HOLY CONCOVATIONS (called out public assemblies), How does this effect God's 4th Commandment which is not ANNUAL but WEEKLY?

    The SHADOW ceremonial sabbaths have already been defined and shown in the HEBREW word meaning as being "SPECIAL" sabbaths connected to annual Jewish festivals of Feasts of Trumpets (Lev 23:24) or Day of Atonement (Lev 23:32 or Feast of Booths (Lev 23:39). These special sabbaths are not God's 4th commandment and were connected directly to these feats and could fall on ANY DAY of the WEEK.

    Hosea 2:11 is in reference to the SHADOW laws from the MOSIAC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT in connections to the FEAST days that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    As shown earlier through the scriptures you mix up the Shadow laws from LEVITICUS 23 with Gods' ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken under the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11.
    JOHN was not saying JESUS broke the Sabbath but simply recorded that was what the Pharisees accused him of doing. If JESUS broke any one of God's 10 commandments he would be guilty of SIN (breaking God's LAW) and would not be our perfect sacrifice for sin and mankind would be lost.
    Now your point here is????
    God's WORD says God's 4th Commandments is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH. We only enter into God's REST if we BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *HEBERWS 4:1-10.
    INDEED. Thank you. So if JESUS was teaching it is lawful to do GOOD on the SABBATH *MATTHEW 12:1-12 then why is he teachings us about the correct way to keep the SABBATH if in your view we no longer need to keep it? God's WORD disagrees with you here brother and you have acknowledged it.
    There is only lawlessness in having no law and breaking it.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  8. safswan

    safswan Member

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    Thanks for the welcome.Hope the perception of the discussion being a circus can be removed.
     
  9. safswan

    safswan Member

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    I am just thankful it was a blessing and I am hoping it will help to alleviate a common misconception about the passage in question.Thanks.
     
  10. Kermos

    Kermos God is the Potter, and we are the clay.

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    The Word of God is Jesus as recorded in John 1:1 and John 1:14 and Luke 1:2. The Son of God is God's Word!

    I do not disagree that LAWLESSNESS means to be without law. It is your imposition of LAWLESSNESS with the 4th commandment as you try to teach people to keep the Sabbath as opposed to Jesus giving rest per His word! Jesus satisfied the law for us believers per His word here:

    "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to satisfy." (Matthew 5:17)

    Or, the same word of Jesus with another appropriate synonym:

    "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to complete." (Matthew 5:17)

    A few reasons I snipped your post is because there are too many of your words in your post which is already recorded in the thread, the quote links back to your post for reference, and I do not dispute that LAWLESSNESS means without law. I am by NO means trying to make it disappear, that is you bearing false witness against me which is a breach of the 10 commandments for you, but I forgive you.

    So, again, you disagree with Jesus who is God. Jesus said:

    "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (John 14:15)

    Your words try to get other people to ignore the meaning of "It is finished" at the cross. You write the implication that people that do not keep the Sabbath are practicing LAWLESSNESS, but people keeping the Sabbath are not producing fruit in line with Jesus' word (John 14:15) which is LAWLESSNESS.
     
  11. safswan

    safswan Member

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    Regardless of which Sabbaths are being referred to here,how does this passage indicates the end of all Sabbaths forever?


    I am not sure of your reason for using this passage but it seems out of place here as it does not really support your position.See post #725 for a proper understanding of the passage.
     
  12. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    The verse provides a condition for the law to pass. It says unless all be fulfilled heaven and earth can't pass away.

    Jesus said -

    LK 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

    You can argue all you wish against this being a reference to Mat 5:17-18. But Heb 7:12 is proof jots and tittles has passed from the law. Jesus can't be a priest according to the law because He's from the tribe of Judah. Jesus isn't from the tribe of Levi required to be a priest. If Jesus isn't your priest (intermediary with the Father) you don't have salvation.

    45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

    46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

    47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

    48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
    If this is true, then Col 2:16-17 is true about the sabbath passing because the weekly sabbath is clearly called a shadow.
    You've no idea what James is talking about or to whom.
    No, because I understand what an ordinance is. An ordinance is codified written law. The verse says laws contained in writing (an ordinance). The verse doesn't say law and ordinances.
    The famous 10 are given only to Israel per Moses as I've shown you previously in several posts both from Exodus and Deuteronomy. They're not given to the whole world nor are they part of the New Covenant per Jeremiah.
    So you make up a scarecrow. Who cares? Maybe the ignorant and those who have no idea because of the double speak from the bully pulpit in so called pro grace churches. All most all of them preach fear and demand control of their subjects.
     
  13. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Unless your year is 6 days long the first feast day is the weekly sabbath Lev 23:2 and 3.
     
  14. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    There are quite a few words in Hebrew meaning the weekly sabbath. I'm really not interested in listing them unless you pester me about it. It really wouldn't be on topic for this thread.
     
  15. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. This is in addition to my regular discussion about Ex 20:8-11.
     
  16. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Must not be much interest in the OP.
     
  17. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Then our Bibles must have some extra verses in them.
     
  18. Kermos

    Kermos God is the Potter, and we are the clay.

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    You claim you answered me, but you answer in your words interpersed among Scripture in an attempt to alter the meaning of Scripture, for example you added the word DOING to Romans 13:8, but the word DOING is not there in the Greek. The true and accurate translation into English from the Greek for Romans 13:8 is both of these:

    he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled [the] law.
    he who loves his neighbor has satisfied [the] law.

    Jesus said:

    "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to satisfy." (Matthew 5:17)

    "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28)

    "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words" (John 14:23-24)

    That is three paragraphs of the Word of God!

    Again you bear false witness against me, this time your words accuse me of choosing not to hear. That is a judgement, and you are issuing it. You follow the accusation with more of your words saying that you are not judging me.

    I, a formerly dead rebel saturated in sin, have been purchased by the Blood of Jesus Christ. It is this great God that opened my heart! The word that Jesus speaks are sweet milk and honey in my ears.

    Again, I forgive you.

    The Word of God says He is come to satisfy the law (Matthew 11:28). The previous sentence is truth!
     
  19. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I'd like to hear @LoveGodsWord response or opinion to or on this...?

    Or an SDA view even...?

    I've been trying to say and point this out in so many words, but @klutedavid puts it much better than I can...

    They think, and pride themselves on this whole issue, but while they think they are keeping and obeying it, they really are not, not technically, or literally, and they are actually breaking God's law, and not just in not keeping it, but in other ways also associated with their thinking they are keeping and obeying it (True Sabbath) and priding themselves on it or that, judging others over and for it, ect...

    God Bless!
     
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  20. safswan

    safswan Member

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    Could you cite or quote the scripture which shows this?
     
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