Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

[Radrook]

That's the image man was created in, knowledge/mind. Once he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil "he has become like one of us, lest he put forth his hand...."

Man was not meant for the knowledge of evil, he is unable to control it without God. But God is pure Mind/Knowledge/Energy and has indeed always existed and will always exist.

Are you saying that man was created with an inability to determine right from wrong and that the creator reserved that ability to himself via designing humans unable to psychologically tolerate knowing right from wrong as he easily tolerates it?

Such a concept generates many controversial moral issues. For example, you don't design an android incapable of enduring certain stress and then condemn it because it was unable to endure it. That would be illogical and unjust.

You don't claim that the android is in your resemblance or image to the point of calling it a son while depriving it of an essential facet of your character.

Based on that alone I would suggest that your concept is based on a misunderstanding of what really was involved.

 

[Larniavc]

Jesus Christ was using His energy to heal, He was making something out of nothing, He was changing mollecules, He was defying the laws of nature, etc. etc. He even changed the energetic properties of His body. So, you see, Christianity has a lot to do with energy. As opposed to Mithraism, a competing religion to Christianity in the 3rd / 4th centuries.

What units do you measure Jesus Christ's energy in?

 

[Radrook]

What units do you measure Jesus Christ's energy in?

Many things are described as being done via God giving a command or via his word. We are told that nature responded in unusual ways to those commands.

That is Comparable to how we can program a computer to obey our commands or impute because we designed it to.

Is that type of human verbal input quantifiable? If so, how?

Genesis 1:2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.

 

[Larniavc]

Many things are described as being done via God giving a command or via his word. We are told that nature responded in unusual ways to those commands.

That is Comparable to how we can program a computer to obey our commands or impute because we designed it to.

Is that type of human verbal input quantifiable? If so, how?

If sorry if my question was not clear:

What units do you measure Jesus Christ's energy in?

 

[Radrook]

If sorry if my question was not clear:

What units do you measure Jesus Christ's energy in?

And I answered by saying that nature could have been responding to verbal impute just as your computer does. As for direct energy method of getting things done, it is referred to as spirit.

That energy quantity is indirectly described as limitless via describing God as almighty. What exactly it is cannot be described in material terminology because it is of the spirit realm and can only be described via comparisons to things within our material universe with which we are familiar such as breath, wind, hand, arm etcetera. I fully explained this in response to this question in a previous post but it was ignored.

 

[Larniavc]

And I answered by saying that nature could have been responding to verbal impute just as your computer does. As for direct energy method of getting things done, it is referred to as spirit.

But that is not an answer to a question about units of measurement.

That's what I asked. If you don't want to answer that question why bother responding?

Is it joules, volts, newton meters, pascals?

What are you measuring the energy in?

 

[Radrook]

But that is not an answer to a question about units of measurement.

That's what I asked. If you don't want to answer that question why bother responding?

Is it joules, volts, newton meters, pascals?

What are you measuring the energy in?

Who said I was measuring energy?

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

No, it has nothing to do with changing frames. It started the second he began acceleration. At his turn around point he slowed and his clocks sped back up to normal. On his return acceleration his clocks once again slowed.

As I said before, an acceleration is a change in inertial frames

You have direct proof of this with clocks on board airplanes that at no time left the earth centered inertial frame from which all calculations were done.

One of the problems calculating the aircraft time dilation is that neither the aircraft nor the Earth-based reference are true inertial frames. The aircraft followed a curved (therefore accelerating) path around the Earth (radius of the aircraft distance from Earth's centre) and the ground reference also rotated around the Earth's centre. The gravitational time dilation also had to be accounted for in each case. At the Earth's surface the kinematic and gravitational time dilation cancel, which made calculation easier.

Believers in Fairie Dust usually try every conceivable excuse to ignore the reality.

It would help if you could grasp that an accelerating frame is non-inertial and an acceleration causes a change of inertial frames.

The twin thinks like you that his frame is unchanging, but his frame is the only one that changed. You know the truth of this, your just trying to avoid the logical conclusion from knowing the truth.

You know his frame is changing even if he believes it is unchanging. Only his frame changes. Knowing this you are also aware that likewise you may believe this frame is unchanging, but that belief would be in error since you know the truth.

I already told you, the travelling twin ages differently because he's changed frames, i.e. accelerated / decelerated. He also knows he's changed frames because he can feel the acceleration & deceleration.

Must I quote the explanation for the clock and airplane test which has nothing to do with changing frames, or can you look it up for yourself?

"Considering the Hafele–Keating experiment in a frame of reference at rest with respect to the center of the earth..."

I think you misunderstood that Wiki quote - it means they analysed the experiment results taking the centre of the Earth as their rest frame.

I think you may also have misunderstood my position - I'm not arguing that kinematic time dilation doesn't exist, but that in the SR resolution of the Twins Paradox, the significant influence in the eventual age difference is the non-inertial motion (the frame change) at turn-around.

Spoiler: worked example

Assuming for the sake of simplicity, instantaneous accelerations, the twins synchronize clocks at t=0. The traveling twin then travels 10 light years out at a constant 0.9c, turns around and returns at a constant -0.9c (relative to home twin).

During the outward journey, each twin sees the other's clock running 4.36 times slower (from the coefficient of time dilation). The outward journey should take 11.1 years relative to home twin (10 light years at 0.9c), but to the travelling twin it takes 11.1 x 0.436 = 4.84 years, and at turn-around he sees the home twin's clock reading 1.1 years (because he's now 10 light years away). The home twin calculates the journey time as 11.1 years, but sees the traveler turn around at 21.1 years (because it takes 10 years for the light to get back to him).

Likewise, on the return journey, each sees the other's clock running 4.36 times faster. For the traveller, it takes another 4.84 years, making a total elapsed time of 4.84 + 4.84 = 9.68 years, but he sees 21.1 years elapse on the home twin's clock, so he measures a total elapsed time for the home twin of 1.1 + 21.1 = 22.2 years. The home twin measures the return journey at 1.1 years, so he measures a total elapsed time of 21.1 + 1.1 = 22.2 years.

So the constant velocity (inertial) outward and return legs are entirely symmetrical with respect to the twins' observations of each other's clocks; on this alone, one would expect no difference in aging. But the home twin has aged 22.2 years and the traveling twin only 9.68 years...

However, the trip as a whole is not symmetrical because the travelling twin changed his velocity (his inertial frame) from +0.9c to -0.9c at the turn-around point (to simplify further, we can ignore the initial acceleration and final deceleration by assuming they compare clocks when their trajectories cross at the start and end, but the turn-around is necessary for them to cross twice).

 

[Larniavc]

Who said I was measuring energy?

You said

Jesus Christ was using His energy to heal

So what kind of energy and what units is it measured in?

Like how you can measure heat in Celsius and electricity in volts.

 

[Radrook]

You said

So what kind of energy and what units is it measured in?

Like how you can measure heat in Celsius and electricity in volts.

And as I previously explained it is referred to as holy spirit.
And as I said before it isn't quantified in specific units.
Neither is it part of this material universe so all we can do, as I said before, is compare it to things in this universe.

BTW
I don't recall saying that Jesus was using his energy to heal. You are confusing me with someone else.

 

[Larniavc]

I don't recall saying that Jesus was using his energy to heal. You are confusing me with someone else.

My apologies, you are of course correct. I was confusing you with JABG (which I doubly apologise for )

 

[Radrook]

My apologies, you are of course correct. I was confusing you with JABG (which I doubly apologise for )

Happens to me as well much too often.
Peace!

 

[PsychoSarah]

No religion before Christ took over had been interested in changing mollecules, and you know it. Yes, maybe energy wasn't so important in altering mollecules.

Not sure what you mean by "altering molecules", is that a reference to resurrection and turning water into wine? Because reviving people is in a lot of religions. Osiris was the Egyptian god of resurrection (and other things, such as life, death, and the afterlife). In the Egyptian legends, Osiris dies and is resurrected twice. Hinduism is entirely about rebirth. A being born a god may die and later be reborn as an ant. I do not understand why you think Christianity stands out in terms of transforming matter and life; it's actually a pretty restrained religion in that regard.

But the Resurrection, the new deified body of Chist has much to do with physics and with being in more then one place at a time.
That's why Christianity's ''so'' important.

-_- how was he in more than one place at a time? Wasn't the tomb found to be empty after the resurrection of Jesus? Or are you referring to the idea that the Christian God is everywhere at once? It's definitely not in a physical sense, unless you believe like many Buddhists that god is literally the whole universe.

And how about the Psalm where David glorifies the Dark matter, saying that only God knows where it abides.

I want the direct quote for that, chapter and verses.

Oh, we do know enough about Mithraism. It was the preffered religion of the Roman soldiers and not of the masses looking for alternations.[/QUOTE]
-_- no written narratives or theology of the religion have survived to the present day. Most of the modern understanding of the religion comes from artwork within temples related to it, and non-religious texts that make small references to it.

Seeing as the deity Mithra was depicted as a god of war, contracts, kings, and the sun, it would make more sense for warriors to worship this deity. It was very common for people in Rome to pick a patron god or goddess to devote most of their worship to, and they would usually pick one relevant to their lives. Warriors worshiped gods of war, farmers gods of fertility and growth, fishermen gods of the sea, etc.

 

[Radrook]

True.... I know very little about this....
but at least I can admit that Dr. Chaim Tejman's theories and drawings
are rather brilliant.......

because he puts forward the idea that the tiniest particles behave much like
planets and stars and star clusters .... the smallest particles actually behave
somewhat like the largest groupings of matter in the universe......

As above....
so below.....

Electrons appear and vanish and the reappear in unpredictable locations as they orbit the atomic nucleus. Neither our planets nor any other planet of other solar systems behave that way in their orbits.

 

[Blackmarch]

I am an Evolutionary Theist........

I am of the belief that a being with "Godlike" technological capability

began, far far far far far more than 13.72 billion years ago, in
fundamental or nearly fundamental energy that to at least some
degree corresponds with "Energy from Quantum Vacuum."


This Intelligence learned and learned, and experimented..... .and
designed Big Bang type events, nearly an infinite number of them,
and eventually, around 13.72 billion year or so ago began our.......
Big Bang event that led to the evolution plus creation of
all the life forms that we see here on earth.

Unknown.

 

[DennisTate]

Unknown.

True.......
but The Anthropic Principle combined with the Cyclic Model of the Universe
as well as Multiverse Theory could take the existence of fundamental energy.......
as well as nearly fundamental energy, to be in existence for something like
infinite time in the past...............
.... .whereas the most recent Big Bang event was only a mere 13.72 billion years or so ago.....
... so......
where is intelligence more likely to evolve..........
in the paradigm that existed for less than 13.72 billion years.......

or in infinite time in the past?

 

[pat34lee]

the idea of God being first and foremost a Scientist, Inventor
who conducted experiments and found out

All make him less than perfect, less than God, and more of a myth that you can wrap your mind around.

 

[pat34lee]

where is intelligence more likely to evolve..........

Nowhere. There is no mechanism for evolving intelligence or anything else for that matter in nature. Degeneration is the rule, not evolution.

 

[DennisTate]

All make him less than perfect, less than God, and more of a myth that you can wrap your mind around.

To you......
but to me.....
G-d learning and getting better and better at planning and pulling off Big Bang type events......
in no way makes G-d less of the Most High!

 

[DennisTate]

Nowhere. There is no mechanism for evolving intelligence or anything else for that matter in nature. Degeneration is the rule, not evolution.

Google the name Dr. Chaim Henry Tejman......
and you will run into some interesting ideas on Wave Theory that may surprise you.