Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?

[Larniavc]

The build tables, they do not create them.

Genesis 1:1 - Wikipedia

"bara ("([he] created/creating") The second word is the Hebrew verb bara(ברא‎). It is in the masculine form, so that "he" is implied. (English verbs do not distinguish between he, she, and it.) A peculiarity of this verb is that it is always used with God as its subject, meaning that only God can "bara";"

Don't ask me to assign to me what is assigned only to God. I know modern society has no problem using the word incorrectly for man and trying to do away with the need for God.

I'm not using the word bara. I'm using the word create. Humans can create. Humans cannot bara.

 

[just a believing guy]

I personally don't know the answer to those questions, but I must ask why it all ending at "energy" would even matter? If it all ended at glip-glorp, you'd just end up asking "what caused the glip-glorp to exist or form?" I dunno, but stating some deity that may or may not exist did it isn't going to help me or anyone else understand the universe better. You have to substantiate the claim that a deity exists before you can start to figure out its role as it relates to the universe.

Jesus Christ was using His energy to heal, He was making something out of nothing, He was changing mollecules, He was defying the laws of nature, etc. etc. He even changed the energetic properties of His body. So, you see, Christianity has a lot to do with energy. As opposed to Mithraism, a competing religion to Christianity in the 3rd / 4th centuries.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

SR has nothing to do with magic expansion. You don't understand the history. It was once the actual velocity of galaxies through space until technology advanced and the redshift z values became too high to support that belief. Instead of letting the theory be falsified they changed it to the magical expansion of nothing. There is no reason to believe in magic when actual physics explains what cosmological redshift is.

Whatever - I was describing the situation under the standard (mainstream) cosmological model of a universe with accelerating expansion. If you subscribe to a different model, the physics will obviously be different.

You do realize your promoting pseudoscience? We have actual tests with clocks on airplanes. There was no magical frame switching involved, just the increase in velocity of those clocks. The direct emperical evidence shows their excuse of frame switching on the turn around is pure pseudoscience and not supported by laboratory evidence. It is changes in velocity alone which causes clocks to slow. Energy is added at the quantum level proportionally to the change in velocity from acceleration.

Now you are certainly entitled to believe in Fairie Dust, but we have direct emperical evidence that magical frame switching is not involved.

A change of velocity is acceleration. Acceleration is a change of inertial frame.

Now to the next confused point. The accelerating twin sees the stationary twins clocks as slower. Like you he truly believes it is the stationary twins clocks which have slowed. Sadly he finds out he is wrong and it his his clocks that have slowed. The stationary twin is stationary. He neither underwent acceleration, nor was he involved in magical frame switching. His clocks do not change regardless of what the other twin might believe. He is the controll in the experiment.

So even though you know the twin in motion can not perceive the stationary twins clocks correctly, nor even his own, you will persist with believing what you know to be wrong?

Like you the traveling twin thought it was the other clock that had slowed. Like you he was wrong. In reality he was seeing a reflection in the other clocks of what was occurring to his own clocks.

Remember, the stationary twin is stationary, his clocks never change regardless of what the traveling twin believes.

There is no preferred or 'right' frame - that's why it's called 'relativity'...

Each twin's measurements are valid with respect to their proper frames. When the travelling twin returns, their clocks differ because of their different inertial histories - the travelling twin's clock has changed inertial frames and the other has not. The significant change of frame occurs when he decelerates at the end of the outward journey and accelerates to start the return.

 

[Radrook]

Technology has nothing to do with the issue. God creates through force of will.
All of reality is His creation and obeys His will.

As far as the OP goes, intelligence started with God, who is neither matter nor energy, but spirit.

Which leads to the conclusion that intelligence, from a Christian viewpoint, never had a beginning but has been eternal because God is eternal and he has always been intelligent.

 

[DennisTate]

Sorry, an Easter Bunny laying chocolate eggs, is more probable than your theory.

Thank you for expressing your opinion on this JimmyJimmy......
but it is OK to ask the question about what happened before......
Genesis chapter 1.

In a way.... Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 do go into that.......
You don't by any chance believe in Young Earth Creationism do you?

NDE of Dr. Richard Eby verifies old earth and gap theory.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Jesus Christ was using His energy to heal, He was making something out of nothing, He was changing mollecules, He was defying the laws of nature, etc. etc.

So did Vishnu, and Buddha, and all sorts of other figures important in different religions from Christianity. My point is that I don't consider the bible to be a reliable source of any historical information, so the claimed miracles don't impress me. There's not even enough evidence to support those events happening, let alone that they weren't misinterpretations of things people are capable of or exaggerations.

He even changed the energetic properties of His body. So, you see, Christianity has a lot to do with energy.

-_- if it is a miracle that defies the limits of physics itself, why would energy be a component at all? If it defies physics, then molecules could be altered without any energy input.

As opposed to Mithraism, a competing religion to Christianity in the 3rd / 4th centuries.

Why bring up one of the competitors that died out, and one we know so little about at that? Plenty of religions bring up energy directly. Hinduism is a great example of that, and energy is demonstrably more important within that religion than in Christianity.

We know so little about Mithraism that no modern person could honestly make any claims about how prominent energy was in that religion.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Whatever - I was describing the situation under the standard (mainstream) cosmological model of a universe with accelerating expansion. If you subscribe to a different model, the physics will obviously be different.

A change of velocity is acceleration. Acceleration is a change of inertial frame.


There is no preferred or 'right' frame - that's why it's called 'relativity'...

Each twin's measurements are valid with respect to their proper frames. When the travelling twin returns, their clocks differ because of their different inertial histories - the travelling twin's clock has changed inertial frames and the other has not. The significant change of frame occurs when he decelerates at the end of the outward journey and accelerates to start the return.

No, it has nothing to do with changing frames. It started the second he began acceleration. At his turn around point he slowed and his clocks sped back up to normal. On his return acceleration his clocks once again slowed.

You have direct proof of this with clocks on board airplanes that at no time left the earth centered inertial frame from which all calculations were done.

Believers in Fairie Dust usually try every conceivable excuse to ignore the reality.

Just as if one goes to the top of a mountain his clocks run faster than those at sea level, even if once again they remain in the same frame of reference. There is just less gravitational energy. Just as when you calculate backwards in time objects had less kinetic energy as their velocity was less. As per E who found that Gravity was equivalent to acceleration.

Frames are just an excuse to ignore the reality. The twin thinks like you that his frame is unchanging, but his frame is the only one that changed. You know the truth of this, your just trying to avoid the logical conclusion from knowing the truth.

You know his frame is changing even if he believes it is unchanging. Only his frame changes. Knowing this you are also aware that likewise you may believe this frame is unchanging, but that belief would be in error since you know the truth.

Must I quote the explanation for the clock and airplane test which has nothing to do with changing frames, or can you look it up for yourself?

"Considering the Hafele–Keating experiment in a frame of reference at rest with respect to the center of the earth..."

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Which leads to the conclusion that intelligence, from a Christian viewpoint, never had a beginning but has been eternal because God is eternal and he has always been intelligent.

That's the image man was created in, knowledge/mind. Once he ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil "he has become like one of us, lest he put forth his hand...."

Man was not meant for the knowledge of evil, he is unable to control it without God. But God is pure Mind/Knowledge/Energy and has indeed always existed and will always exist.

 

[just a believing guy]

So did Vishnu, and Buddha, and all sorts of other figures important in different religions from Christianity. My point is that I don't consider the bible to be a reliable source of any historical information, so the claimed miracles don't impress me. There's not even enough evidence to support those events happening, let alone that they weren't misinterpretations of things people are capable of or exaggerations.




-_- if it is a miracle that defies the limits of physics itself, why would energy be a component at all? If it defies physics, then molecules could be altered without any energy input.



Why bring up one of the competitors that died out, and one we know so little about at that? Plenty of religions bring up energy directly. Hinduism is a great example of that, and energy is demonstrably more important within that religion than in Christianity.

We know so little about Mithraism that no modern person could honestly make any claims about how prominent energy was in that religion.

No religion before Christ took over had been interested in changing mollecules, and you know it. Yes, maybe energy wasn't so important in altering mollecules.

But the Resurrection, the new deified body of Chist has much to do with physics and with being in more then one place at a time.
That's why Christianity's ''so'' important.

And how about the Psalm where David glorifies the Dark matter, saying that only God knows where it abides.

Oh, we do know enough about Mithraism. It was the preffered religion of the Roman soldiers and not of the masses looking for alternations.

 

[Gene2memE]

Jesus Christ was using His energy to heal,

What kind of energy is that?

 

[just a believing guy]

What kind of energy is that?

I wouldn't know, probably related to the pre-Big Bang energy.

 

[Gene2memE]

I wouldn't know, probably related to the pre-Big Bang energy.

Thanks for your non answer. What is pre-Big Bang energy?

 

[just a believing guy]

Thanks for your non answer. What is pre-Big Bang energy?

The potential energy of the universe.

 

[Gene2memE]

Good. What kind of energy is that?

 

[just a believing guy]

Good. What kind of energy is that?

No energy is lost; it only turns from one kind into another.

But, let me ask you: what do you think what kind of energy would that be?

 

[Gene2memE]

I'm not the one claiming that a being "used his energy to heal".

What I want to know is what kind of energy is that, and how do you know what this being did?

 

[just a believing guy]

I'm not the one claiming that a being "used his energy to heal".

What I want to know is what kind of energy is that, and how do you know what this being did?

I don't know, I'm not God...my best guess would be the same energy the Lord used to create the universe. As in John 1. You know the power of the words, and how they can create...regardless of the language, be it divine or human.

Human brain uses 25% of the entire enery of the body, and a good proportion of the energy is used to think, feel and -- speak, the very thing that makes humans who they are.

You say ''being'', but I would disagree with such denotion of God, as He is preexistent.

 

[Gene2memE]

You don't know what kind of energy, or you don't know how you have knowledge of this energy use?

Also, that brain argument is a terrible one. First, the brain uses about 20% of our energy consumption (the heart and kidneys both use more), we know what kind of energy the use, how they use it, and how we know how we know this.

You on the other hand have mystery "energy", which you can't explain and attempt to hand wave away by referencing another mystery energy. And you cant justify either your assertion about its existence, nor how you came about this knowledge...

So, why exactly do you hold this position.

 

[just a believing guy]

You don't know what kind of energy, or you don't know how you have knowledge of this energy use?

Also, that brain argument is a terrible one. First, the brain uses about 20% of our energy consumption (the heart and kidneys both use more), we know what kind of energy the use, how they use it, and how we know how we know this.

You on the other hand have mystery "energy", which you can't explain and attempt to hand wave away by referencing another mystery energy. And you cant justify either your assertion about its existence, nor how you came about this knowledge...

So, why exactly do you hold this position.

I hold this position besause I'm Christian. I don't claim to know the secrets of the universe, but I know that John 1 speaks of the creation of the worlds. This creation was done by the Word aka Christ. Christ is depicted in the gospels as having superhuman, divine powers. As power means energy, I put 2 and 2 together. If you think better about it, it isn't that strange that the means by which the worlds were created had the power to change physical laws,

 

[Gene2memE]

I hold this position besause I'm Christian. I don't claim to know the secrets of the universe, but I know that John 1 speaks of the creation of the worlds. This creation was done by the Word aka Christ. Christ is depicted in the gospels as having superhuman, divine powers. As power means energy, I put 2 and 2 together. If you think better about it, it isn't that strange that the means by which the worlds were created had the power to change physical laws,

Argument by synonym. Nonsensical, but at least it made me think of this:

L-space, short for library-space, is the ultimate portrayal of Pratchett's concept that the written word has powerful magical properties on the Discworld, and that in large quantities all books warp space and time around them. The principle of L-space revolves around a seemingly logical equation; it is an extension of the 'Knowledge is Power':

Books = Knowledge = Power = (Force x Distance^2) ÷ Time.
​

Any thread that results in the mention of Terry Pratchett and/or Discworld wins an internet cookie, so that's a bonus, I guess.