EU buys $60 bn of American weapons each year! America gets 105 TIMES more out of NATO than it costs!

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

Yes, I know this, but Gorecheve and Yelstin sat at the round table and were persuaded verbally and made decisions based on their conversations. Dumb Russians, maybe they thought we were trustworthy. lol

Because we didn't listen to a verbal warning from Russia, wars started because we crossed Russia's red line. But I've watched our action and Russia's for the past thirty years, and I joined the Army thinking we might fight Russia someday. Time has disappointed me for a country that I was willing to die for.

The United States and the West are not responsible for Russian leaders' ignorance of international negotiation protocols. During negotiations, ideas are proposed but only those formalized in a treaty hold significance.

The RED line?

Are you aware of how many millions of Western Europeans were killed between 1945 and 1990 due to Russian occupation? It is likely that you are not informed about this, which might be why you believe that expanding NATO is not a good idea and why you think Russia has the right to attack and expand their territory.

Only warmonger and killer in this NATO vs Russia is Russian.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Different subject. Read the OP! Answer the OP!

Oh and I don't like China's live fire around our island.

But I've already started another thread on Australia - and how we need to scuttle AUKUS before we waste $350 BILLION dollars on nuclear subs as part of upgrading to the "Platinum Defence Package" with America. It's no where near as much as the EU's $50 to $60 billion per year - our $350 was over a few decades. But hey - it all adds up. And Trump's just freaked everyone out so much with his constant lies and betrayals that most Aussies can't stand the though of spending a CENT on American kit!

You do realize that Trump doesn't actually build the submarines? As a former submarineer, the boats you are looking at are possibility going to still outclass any adversaries twenty years later.

But, in the realm of conventional diesel submarines, even though there's a history, Japan makes the largest diesel submarine. Sweden and Germany make a good mid sized one. I would have no reservations about serving on any of those. Since Australia is more than likely going to use them regionally and not hide under Artic ice, diesel ones may be best. Germany made a big one in the 1980s for Argentina using lessons learned from their spat with Britain that was top shelf at the time. The TR1700. But they haven't made anything comparable since. For some reason both Germany and Sweden concentrate on more local Baltic and North Sea boats.

 

[eclipsenow]

You do realize that Trump doesn't actually build the submarines?

Of course. So everything will be hunky-dory when the next guy replaces him, right? All we have to do is wait him out - and then buy these subs off the next Pres.

Oh wait... latest news just in on the Aussie thread shows that might be a really bad idea!

America has changed.

The rest of us don't know who you are any more?
But - it seems - like Jekyll and Hyde - the same thing is coming for us!

 

[The Barbarian]

I really wish that you would not believe everything bad that you hear about President Trump.

It's gotten to the point that every time America thinks he's done the craziest/dumbest/most despicable thing possible, he raises the bar with something worse. In that environment, it's hard not to believe.

That being said, we shouldn't just believe without checking.

 

[eclipsenow]

Great - now that Trump has ranted against NATO so much, Putin seems to be making plans to move on some NATO countries.
Their military industrial complex is scaling up (with their cheaper PPP) to compare with Europe's and should be large enough to march on certain NATO countries within 3 to 5 years.

Random Youtuber? Nope - he's reporting on the German security service reports.