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Where did Intelligence begin, in matter or fundamental energy?
- Thread starter DennisTate
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Or..... they had a genuine spiritual experience that to at least some degree fits with II Corinthians 12:2-4 but....... the rest of us may have difficulty admitting that they may be correct because we know that what they assert could get us disfellowshipped from at least one church, maybe two, in the next couple of months....... .much as I personally faced back in 1991.
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Could this be a 'No True
What are the criteria by which 'genuine' spiritual experiences may be distinguished from non-genuine ones?
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The connection between human and creator and creation is presumably something which we *all* can or might experience. Even atheists experience the awe and wonder of nature even if they don't associate it with a "spiritual" experience.
I have no direct insight into that very personal connection within others, so the only criteria that I can think of relates to something Jesus said which I have experienced to be true. Christ said that the Holy Spirit within us would testify on his behalf and I have experienced that as well. All my "spiritual experiences within have been congruent with the teachings of Christ.
I think everyone that experiences God within in very unique and individual ways, even if they don't recognize it as such.
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Since when was a "brain" required for 'intelligence'?
How brainless slime molds redefine intelligence
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The ubiquity of consciousness: The ubiquity of consciousness, cognition and intelligence in life
How exactly are you defining 'intelligence'? Even Paramecium will choose a balanced diet from an assortment of different food supplies.
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TBDude65
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You use the word "choose" incorrectly. A paramecia responding to chemicals in the environment around it (response to stimuli without a nervous system using chemical receptors) isn't intelligence.
Intelligence is the ability to process thought (problem solve) by a conscious organism
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Do you have published papers to support that claim or are you just winging this as you go?
Plant intelligence
Many published papers on single celled organisms, and even plants, equate their behaviors with intelligence, including paramecium which can and do seek out a balanced diet from a range of potential food sources. You seem to be "assuming" what you wish to believe rather than pointing out any flaws in any of the published papers on this topic.
I still haven't seen you demonstrate that a brain is a requirement for "intelligence", nor have I seen your definition of intelligence.
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LOL! I often find that someone who's badly losing the debate will suggest a textbook with a handwave rather than providing specific published references. It's one of the oldest 'tricks' in the debate book.
Unless you've been living under a rock, you'd have to notice that single celled organisms and even plants have started to redefine the concept of "intelligence" over the past couple of decades.
You have not, nor can you demonstrate that a "brain" is a necessary requirement for "intelligence", let alone "awareness" in some primitive sense.
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TBDude65
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You define "intelligence" extremely loosely it would seem. What is your definition?LOL! I often find that someone who's badly losing the debate will suggest a textbook with a handwave rather than providing specific published references. It's one of the oldest 'tricks' in the debate book.
Unless you've been living under a rock, you'd have to notice that single celled organisms and even plants have started to redefine the concept of "intelligence" over the past couple of decades.
You have not, nor can you demonstrate that a "brain" is a necessary requirement for "intelligence", let alone "awareness" in some primitive sense.
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I'm technically not defining it, I'm just defining it as *published papers* define it. Whatever intelligence might be, it doesn't require a brain, or even multiple cells. Apparently a single cell will suffice.
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There are many definitions of intelligence, depending on the context.
It's often just used as a relative indication of greater complexity of behaviour than is usual or expected in a particular context.
Some companies claim that simple devices, like a car's climate control, 'intelligently' adjust air temperature and humidity because they sense and respond to the environment. By those criteria, a thermostat is intelligent.
I think the most interesting definition involves flexible and creative problem solving.
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The whole "balanced diet" thing seems like a classic example of "problem solving", as does the slime mold maze example.
Considering the intricate wiring of plants, it's also getting more and more difficult to rule out a rudimentary form of intelligence among plants. Whatever intelligence might be, it certainly not limited to any particular need of a "brain". Perhaps in terms of "higher" vs. "lower" forms of intelligence, the level of circuit sophistication becomes a factor, but then what does that say about a universe that is wired together in virtually an infinite number of ways?
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What intricate wiring?
That depends on what you define intelligence to be in relevant contexts.
There's no evidence that the universe is 'wired together' in any meaningful way, however much you wish it was.Perhaps in terms of "higher" vs. "lower" forms of intelligence, the level of circuit sophistication becomes a factor, but then what does that say about a universe that is wired together in virtually an infinite number of ways?
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Exploring How and Why Trees ‘Talk’ to Each Other
How trees talk to each other
True, and there will be ambiguity in how we subjective choose to define the term.
That's just a profoundly false statement from my perspective. Even the mainstream acknowledges the existence of magnetism in space, which is *caused* by the movement of charged particles.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170828124520.htm
They acknowledge the threaded filaments, but they fail to use their proper scientific name, aka "Birkeland currents". They use euphemistic terms like "magnetic slinky", "black hole jets", "dark matter filaments", and silly stuff like that, but the current is what generates those magnetic fields.
The whole universe is 'wired' together in EU/PC theory by the way, from single coronal loops, and electrical discharges in planetary atmospheres, to aurora, to circuits that connect the various suns and galaxies together. The galaxy clusters are themselves simply embedded in gigantic Birkeland Currents which the mainstream calls 'dark matter filaments'.
You can whine about the scientific aspect of panentheism, but there's no logical way to avoid the 'wired together' nature of the universe based on existing evidence.
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